38 replies to this topic

[Bill Mocarsky]

I'm glad that the Gold Street area, which seems to be the most resolved element right now, is a top priority. I always thought that street needed to be straightened and aligned with Atheneum Square.

In the aerials below, notice how Gold street looks like a road running through a suburban office park. Notice the two odd pieces of useless land on opposite sides of the street. One parcel is the lawn next to Busnell Tower. The other is filled with boulders.

It looks like the concept would join these odd parcels into one rectangular shape.

What should be done with the rocks?

Would this be a good site for a farmer's market?  



How about trying to find a way to extend Haynes Street to the park?



The area around the Legislative Building and the state Armory seem to be off the IQUILT radar for now. That is probably because the improvements here would need to coincide with the highway reconstruction plan.

Notice (in the aerials below) that the park in front of the Armory (Minuteman Park) and the space between the Legislative building and garage seems to almost connect to Bushnell Park.

Do we need to stay away from this until the highway is realigned?

Or, could someting be done sooner (since it is not really in the heart of the highway project)?

[HartfordTycoon]

Bill Mocarsky, on 16 June 2011 - 09:00 AM, said:

What should be done with the rocks?

I read that the rocks may be moved to a pool or fountain of somesort nearby. I think on the Travelers Plaza somewhere.

[The Voice of Reason]

MichaelQReilly, on 15 June 2011 - 08:04 PM, said:

Great. From my understanding, the actual location of the Park River is under what is now Jewell Street due to its widening. So this would be a prerequisite to uncovering the river. That said, never underestimate the DOT's ability to screw this up somehow.

My fault for not elaborating.  The river being used is not actually the park river, so we are not daylighting anything, we are actually redirecting a stream(the one that goes thru UHart I think) to appear like the park river.   The reason is that the Park river is filty and gross, and would require insane investments to clean up its entire watershed.   the rat issue, the water volume would be an issue, there really are a ton of issues.  so this tributary stream is clean and managable.   as far as the location, they are putting the river exactly where it was as  much as possible.  the road might have encroached on this, but not necessarily covered it.  so its my understanding that they will be using current park land for the river part, and honestly there is a ton of info on this as its part of the parks rennovation(its own project being tied into the Iquilt)   the park project is also 3 different sections, and each has a different feel and style.   the river in the west will be more still and tranquil, then in the middle we get more nature like and faster flow under trinity bridge etc...   then we end up near the pump house and have an urban river feel with steps built into its banks facing south for sun worshipers and picinics etc...

MichaelQReilly, on 15 June 2011 - 08:04 PM, said:

Do we know if there is any idea where the city can get funding for daylighting the river?

Some of the money comes from the need to fix the control gates of this stream, and there is federal funding etc... so they will upgrade and redo the gates so that this stream can be diverted into the "river system"   or into the park river conduit, this way flooding is controlled.

part of this is also from the federal mandate on cleaning greywater discharge from going into the CT river.  its a major federal prodject, so the friends of the CT river are involved and working on that kind of stuff on a support and fuinding side.   Its all green engineered, and thats where alot of funding comes from.  much of the rest would be from the "friends of bushnell park" who were planning park improvements.  
I think everyone wins!  and as you add these things together there is a better chance at winning funding and levereging ideas.

MichaelQReilly, on 15 June 2011 - 08:04 PM, said:

These are the weakest parts of the plan, IMHO. It's like they ran out of truly visionary ideas and fell back on urbanite warhorses. A farmer's market! A jazz club! I have no objection to these things, in fact, I'm a fan of both (although I get bored of jazz pretty quickly). I just don't think that these locations are very good fits for these things. These areas need dense development as they are crucial to tying central downtown to south downtown.

I also failed in the details here.

IQuilt is not about development at all, its about making things people friendly.
this section of the park is quite key, it connects to Travelers plaza, and the park, and its what allows the whole thing to interact with all the people (main street is always swarming with people around here)
the greenhouses and such are part of the concept of creating potentially revenue generating infrastructure to the project to help maintain and defer operational costs on the park.
Nationally there is a movement to help parks sustain themselves so the city has less burden, but maintain all the park like benefits.  While its easy to just build something in the park, it also takes away from the open space concept.  in order to provide this "developed" parkland, and revenue stream, they are using Gold street to accomplish this.  For one, facilities at this location would help to support events in the park (for example a jass festival, or races etc, without building any more in the park.  the greenhouse thing was mentioned as it might be to attract funding, but also as an asthetic.  they showed a bunch of greenhouse resturaunts and the concept I think is to make these more than just farming.   and again they were just a concept, so it could be anything.  The Jazz place was as an homage to the old Heubline hotel, and its legendary status in the jazz world.  so, the thought again was as a revenue generating rentable space that tied in history and added life to this end of the park at night.




One more thing.....
I forgot to describe the changes to the East end of the park.
With the extention near Polaski circle, and the patio at the pump house becoming water front (like a dock or peir)   there are a few other changes.  the playground would be moved to this part of the park, as would the carousel.   Additionally, there would be a section for more "adult play", like bocce, table tenis etc... and...... near the pump house there would be a permanent ice rink that in summer would be an area for water play, like fountains and such.  There would be a small support building for skates, icecream sales and snacks at the rink area.  

this end of the park should be very active year round with the rink, fountains, pump house resturaunt, playground and all the activities, and mixing into the activities on gold street.  so  East Park and Gold street will be the focus of the merge between city and park.

[The Voice of Reason]

Bill Mocarsky, on 16 June 2011 - 09:00 AM, said:

I'm glad that the Gold Street area, which seems to be the most resolved element right now, is a top priority. I always thought that street needed to be straightened and aligned with Atheneum Square.

In the aerials below, notice how Gold street looks like a road running through a suburban office park. Notice the two odd pieces of useless land on opposite sides of the street. One parcel is the lawn next to Busnell Tower. The other is filled with boulders.

It looks like the concept would join these odd parcels into one rectangular shape.

What should be done with the rocks?

Would this be a good site for a farmer's market?  
Gold street 1.jpg
Gold street 2.jpg

How about trying to find a way to extend Haynes Street to the park?
Haynes street 1.jpg
Haynes street 2.jpg

The area around the Legislative Building and the state Armory seem to be off the IQUILT radar for now. That is probably because the improvements here would need to coincide with the highway reconstruction plan.

Notice (in the aerials below) that the park in front of the Armory (Minuteman Park) and the space between the Legislative building and garage seems to almost connect to Bushnell Park.

Do we need to stay away from this until the highway is realigned?

Or, could someting be done sooner (since it is not really in the heart of the highway project)?
Armory 1.jpg
Armory 2.jpg

iquilt is staying away from there.  the thing is that the highway redesign as you know affects the entire western part of the park.  may expand it even, so the designer did pretty much nothing to that part, I think in anticipation of the highway project

[The Voice of Reason]

HartfordTycoon, on 16 June 2011 - 09:14 AM, said:

I read that the rocks may be moved to a pool or fountain of somesort nearby. I think on the Travelers Plaza somewhere.

The rocks are apparently a very..... VERY hot topic and there were annoying people trying to derail everything over the rocks while in the meeting.

the iquilt people are trying to placate the "art" lovers by actually reaching out to the artist on hw to handle the boulders.  anyways, as of now they are exactly where they are now, but just contain a water feature"reflecting pool" that is not currently there.

so we will see, this is the least concrete of all plans

[nor'easter]

The Voice of Reason, on 16 June 2011 - 09:30 AM, said:

The rocks are apparently a very..... VERY hot topic and there were annoying people trying to derail everything over the rocks while in the meeting.

the iquilt people are trying to placate the "art" lovers by actually reaching out to the artist on hw to handle the boulders.  anyways, as of now they are exactly where they are now, but just contain a water feature"reflecting pool" that is not currently there.

so we will see, this is the least concrete of all plans

I appreciate art in many forms. Rock art of the type on Gold Street, i don't get. The street is a waste of space. Removing it is like addition by subtraction. This IQuilt project is really exciting, interesting, and I'm shocked by the ambitious nature of it.

[Luca Brasi]

The Voice of Reason, on 16 June 2011 - 09:30 AM, said:

The rocks are apparently a very..... VERY hot topic and there were annoying people trying to derail everything over the rocks while in the meeting.

Carl Andrade was commissioned by the City of Hartford back in the 1970's to create a sculpture for the piece of park land it now sits on. Andrade was paid about $100,000. Much to the displeasure of city officials who were expecting something much more for that amount of money, Andrade showed up with a large truck and began unloading and arranging boulders in a pattern on the triangular shaped plot. Outrage at City Hall followed while the art community defended Andrade.

It was a hot topic back then and apparently still is....

By the way, the city was so displeased, they refused to pay Andrade until the artist threatened a lawsuit for much more than the original agreed price.

Edited by Luca Brasi, 16 June 2011 - 04:16 PM.

[beerbeer]

If I am seeing this project correctly, Hartford is once again dong something great but doing it half-assed.

What makes a linear park or pedestrian greenway work is the shops and restaurants that line it. As the project is now drawn, there are no shops or restaurants, no outdoor cafes, to give the iquilt a sense of place. Nowhere to stop and have a drink or meal or just browse.

Hartford repeats this mistake over and over.  Just as there was no housing at Constitution Plaza or Front Street, to make these projects self sustaining, the greenway needs a reason to be.

The same mistake was made at the waterfront. Their needs to be kiosks of a restaurant or cafe to make the riverfront plaza a living place.

Look at the decking over I-84.  No cafes, no shops, no sense of place, just a dead space.

As I said, the concept is promising. But if you just extend the park it becomes a green dead space.

Hope I'm missing something because this project is missing something - big time.

[The Voice of Reason]

beerbeer, on 17 June 2011 - 07:58 AM, said:

If I am seeing this project correctly, Hartford is once again dong something great but doing it half-assed.

What makes a linear park or pedestrian greenway work is the shops and restaurants that line it. As the project is now drawn, there are no shops or restaurants, no outdoor cafes, to give the iquilt a sense of place. Nowhere to stop and have a drink or meal or just browse.

Hartford repeats this mistake over and over.  Just as there was no housing at Constitution Plaza or Front Street, to make these projects self sustaining, the greenway needs a reason to be.

The same mistake was made at the waterfront. Their needs to be kiosks of a restaurant or cafe to make the riverfront plaza a living place.

Look at the decking over I-84.  No cafes, no shops, no sense of place, just a dead space.

As I said, the concept is promising. But if you just extend the park it becomes a green dead space.

Hope I'm missing something because this project is missing something - big time.

not to be a dick, but what are you basing this off of?

the entire concept is about creating exactly what you speak of.   and as a business first guy surely you understand that they can lead the horse to water but they cant make the horse open a cafe on the park.

the intention is to make all of the affected areas attractive to the business community as places to open the exact cafes you speak of, they are even having the wadsworth move their bookstore and cafe to the travelers plaza side, and the whole gold street area is for kiosks and such.   you can not count on me recounting every word of a 2 hour presentation, but I hope from the massive ammount of sharingf I did that the plan is inline with todays urban ideal.


their HOPE is that the nin developed spaces alog these paths will endeaver to face the street and open appropriate businesses.

hell the park alone will now have a waterfront/in the park resturant, an ice cream.snack shop, a skate shop, and just on gold a jazz club, a greenhouse resturant, kiosks and a cafe in the travelers plaza.   but additionally they are expanding sidewalks so 55 on the park can actually hold an eatery, and vitos/salute can expand.


this whole thing is still open to public debate and fluid, so do not judge, get involved and improve.


but worse, a judgement without full understnading is just silly

[MadVlad]

I totally agree with beerbeer's post.  I'm totally for this, and totally for most anything in the city.... if it's done right.  Most of the time, the city screws it up.  I'd almost rather have nothing done than a bunch of half-assed nonsense.  Good post, beerbeer.

[beash19]

The Voice of Reason, on 17 June 2011 - 01:24 PM, said:

not to be a dick, but what are you basing this off of?

the entire concept is about creating exactly what you speak of.   and as a business first guy surely you understand that they can lead the horse to water but they cant make the horse open a cafe on the park.

the intention is to make all of the affected areas attractive to the business community as places to open the exact cafes you speak of, they are even having the wadsworth move their bookstore and cafe to the travelers plaza side, and the whole gold street area is for kiosks and such.   you can not count on me recounting every word of a 2 hour presentation, but I hope from the massive ammount of sharingf I did that the plan is inline with todays urban ideal.


their HOPE is that the nin developed spaces alog these paths will endeaver to face the street and open appropriate businesses.

hell the park alone will now have a waterfront/in the park resturant, an ice cream.snack shop, a skate shop, and just on gold a jazz club, a greenhouse resturant, kiosks and a cafe in the travelers plaza.   but additionally they are expanding sidewalks so 55 on the park can actually hold an eatery, and vitos/salute can expand.


this whole thing is still open to public debate and fluid, so do not judge, get involved and improve.


but worse, a judgement without full understnading is just silly

What an exciting idea!!!  I can understand how people are concerned that the city isnt doing enough on the business side of things but really what the city should be doing is providing places for businesses to open up.  And by having riverside seating areas, more pedestrian friendly areas that span the area from the city into the park, then you cant go wrong.  These the exact types of places that businesses should be looking to open up in.  NOw, hopefully the great ideas continue to be implemented and this plan begins to come to fruition.  The worst that could happen would be that the bureaucrats decide to pull back funding or change the ideas into something lesser.  Fingers are crossed here.

[beash19]

The Voice of Reason, on 17 June 2011 - 01:24 PM, said:

not to be a dick, but what are you basing this off of?

the entire concept is about creating exactly what you speak of.   and as a business first guy surely you understand that they can lead the horse to water but they cant make the horse open a cafe on the park.

the intention is to make all of the affected areas attractive to the business community as places to open the exact cafes you speak of, they are even having the wadsworth move their bookstore and cafe to the travelers plaza side, and the whole gold street area is for kiosks and such.   you can not count on me recounting every word of a 2 hour presentation, but I hope from the massive ammount of sharingf I did that the plan is inline with todays urban ideal.


their HOPE is that the nin developed spaces alog these paths will endeaver to face the street and open appropriate businesses.

hell the park alone will now have a waterfront/in the park resturant, an ice cream.snack shop, a skate shop, and just on gold a jazz club, a greenhouse resturant, kiosks and a cafe in the travelers plaza.   but additionally they are expanding sidewalks so 55 on the park can actually hold an eatery, and vitos/salute can expand.


this whole thing is still open to public debate and fluid, so do not judge, get involved and improve.


but worse, a judgement without full understnading is just silly

What an exciting idea!!!  I can understand how people are concerned that the city isnt doing enough on the business side of things but really what the city should be doing is providing places for businesses to open up.  And by having riverside seating areas, more pedestrian friendly areas that span the area from the city into the park, then you cant go wrong.  These the exact types of places that businesses should be looking to open up in.  NOw, hopefully the great ideas continue to be implemented and this plan begins to come to fruition.  The worst that could happen would be that the bureaucrats decide to pull back funding or change the ideas into something lesser.  Fingers are crossed here.

[beash19]

The Voice of Reason, on 17 June 2011 - 01:24 PM, said:

not to be a dick, but what are you basing this off of?

the entire concept is about creating exactly what you speak of.   and as a business first guy surely you understand that they can lead the horse to water but they cant make the horse open a cafe on the park.

the intention is to make all of the affected areas attractive to the business community as places to open the exact cafes you speak of, they are even having the wadsworth move their bookstore and cafe to the travelers plaza side, and the whole gold street area is for kiosks and such.   you can not count on me recounting every word of a 2 hour presentation, but I hope from the massive ammount of sharingf I did that the plan is inline with todays urban ideal.


their HOPE is that the nin developed spaces alog these paths will endeaver to face the street and open appropriate businesses.

hell the park alone will now have a waterfront/in the park resturant, an ice cream.snack shop, a skate shop, and just on gold a jazz club, a greenhouse resturant, kiosks and a cafe in the travelers plaza.   but additionally they are expanding sidewalks so 55 on the park can actually hold an eatery, and vitos/salute can expand.


this whole thing is still open to public debate and fluid, so do not judge, get involved and improve.


but worse, a judgement without full understnading is just silly

What an exciting idea!!!  I can understand how people are concerned that the city isnt doing enough on the business side of things but really what the city should be doing is providing places for businesses to open up.  And by having riverside seating areas, more pedestrian friendly areas that span the area from the city into the park, then you cant go wrong.  These the exact types of places that businesses should be looking to open up in.  NOw, hopefully the great ideas continue to be implemented and this plan begins to come to fruition.  The worst that could happen would be that the bureaucrats decide to pull back funding or change the ideas into something lesser.  Fingers are crossed here.

[AJC77]

As local government administrator, I like the plan. Here is why! Because already from the get go, there appears to be both a public-private partnership with Travelers and the City funding this study. Cities cant do it alone - revitalizing downtowns and economies. Public- private partnerships will help make this project successful. Many of you speak of making the City of Hartford more business friendly. This is true. But developing a relationship and collaborating with business community, and developing a strong partnership to complete said project will be successful. Cities, like Hartford, have amused me, over the years, they dont seem to learn, the simply dump a billion dollars in to a downtown, and expect it to flourish. The City has to run is city hall like a business, but do what citizens expect it to do well. Meaning, provide the best public services, invest in its people, hire the best finance director, the personnel director, pay the superindent and so on. Until then, the business community will see Hartford more attractive to them. Businesses arent going to make investments in the community, unless they feel they are going to get a return on there investment, not caught up in political scandal. This project will be sucessful unless City gets some stakeholders in the project, like Travelers, the MDC, the Bushnell, and the Wadsworth.

[beerbeer]

I am not bashing this plan.  I said I think it is great.

However Hartford has a long history of NOT following urban planing basics, I mentioned the I-84 deck, CCP, etc.

Unless the greenway is lined with shops, restaurants, coffee houses, it will be just another dead green space.

As I said, urban environments must create a sense of place, an active mixed used reason to exist. At the present, there is no solid plan that meets these basics. Or perhaps, that's phase two, another dreaded Hartford phrase.

[The Voice of Reason]

from the HBJ yesterday,

This is why this project will work.  There is so much attainable funding from grants public and private...

its art, its culture, its green, its public works, its job creating, its local, state and federal


win win win win win win win


Hartford’s iQuilt wins $150K NEA grant (posted Yesterday at 2:54pm)

Hartford's iQuilt project to link the city's cultural attractions and landmarks is the recipient of a $150,000 federal arts grant, authorities say.

[MadVlad]

Ha, they'll blow through that just painting the swing sets in Bushnell Park...

[The Voice of Reason]

Bill Mocarsky, on 16 June 2011 - 09:00 AM, said:

I'm glad that the Gold Street area, which seems to be the most resolved element right now, is a top priority. I always thought that street needed to be straightened and aligned with Atheneum Square.

In the aerials below, notice how Gold street looks like a road running through a suburban office park. Notice the two odd pieces of useless land on opposite sides of the street. One parcel is the lawn next to Busnell Tower. The other is filled with boulders.

It looks like the concept would join these odd parcels into one rectangular shape.

What should be done with the rocks?

Would this be a good site for a farmer's market?  
Gold street 1.jpg
Gold street 2.jpg

looking at the more finalized plans for Gold, I think they are heading in the right direction.  I am glad to hear that corner of lawn in front Bushnell on the park is not owned by the condo.  it has allowed them to make this plan work and to have the road point directly at the capital dome creating nice sight lines.  The rocks are staying because some people love that stuff, but hopefully people will interact with them, and well we will see what the final plan is.   But I don't se this making a huge difference until the Travelers Plaza is also done.  thats really the draw to that area in their plan and this park extender would reach its potential only after having bookends.

[Nick Pirce]

The plan was developed not because so much is wrong with downtown Hartford that it needs to be "fixed" or "saved." It was developed because so much is right that needs to be completed, connected and leveraged in order to make Hartford economically competitive.

Edited by Nick Pirce, 22 January 2012 - 07:18 PM.