17 replies to this topic

[ah59396]

This is just for fun, although it may be depressing depending on your perspective.  Anyways, thought I'd just throw it out there.  Looks like Nashville has a legit proposal http://giarratana.com/ and is positioning itself as a serious contender to "de-throne" us as the 3rd city of the southeast after Atlanta and Miami.

I know skyscrapers aren't the only moniker for what determines a healthy city, however I think we can all agree we felt a lot better about the QC when our skyline was littered with cranes....

[nonillogical]

That office tower (505 cst) is gorgeous. Not totally over-the-top but I've never seen anything quite like it.

[richyb83]

Nice topic...it's been said skylines are the economic bar chart to a city. Always good to see tower-cranes dotting the cityscape!

Just curious..do you consider New Orleans as part of the southeast? If so...where might they rank?? New Orleans has 12 skyscrapers over 400'ft tall...Nashville has 6.

[southslider]

I think the strategy for the next couple years is to keep adding 4-story multi-family within and just outside Uptown, as well as convert some condos to rental.  Demand will then ultimately follow the rooftops.  Employers will seek office space close to the critical mass of a Gen-Y talent pool.  Office vacancy rates will tumble.  And then, demand for more office space will ultimately rise.

[49er]

We've lost our two main sources of tower building over the past decade: banks and residential condo high rises. I can't see Wells Fargo building any new space for decades here (if ever) and Bank of America may finally be tapped out for a while. i think we are seriously witnessing the end of a half century of tower building by the banking industry here in Charlotte. I could see one of the banks step up eventually and finance a spec office tower (or one for a corporate relo) when lending thaws out and maybe we'll still see a hotel or apartment highrise here or there but I'm honestly pretty skeptical of wide spread tower building in the next 5 years.

[ah59396]

richyb83, on 22 November 2011 - 12:17 AM, said:

Nice topic...it's been said skylines are the economic bar chart to a city. Always good to see tower-cranes dotting the cityscape!

Just curious..do you consider New Orleans as part of the southeast? If so...where might they rank?? New Orleans has 12 skyscrapers over 400'ft tall...Nashville has 6.

I absolutely consider NO as part of the south east.  However I find it difficult to lump New Orleans into a category with Nashville, Charlotte, Orlando and to a lesser extent, Jacksonville.  New Orleans is such a unique and wonderful city but it has to deal with a particular set of circumstances post-Katrina.  I don't know if I truly consider it to be an emerging city in the south east.  It has half the urban population today that it did in 1960 and Baton Rouge controls such a large portion of the Louisiana oil industry.  Outside of tourism, I don't really know what else would drive the city to continue to develop.

Again it's an awesome place and I love visiting there.  It's cultural identity in my opinion is far more important to the country than Charlotte, Orlando or Jacksonville.  Nashville has more character than those three but I still can't put it in the same ballpark as New Orleans from a cultural standpoint.  NO just has a long way to go to get back.  Doesn't mean it cant though!

49er, on 22 November 2011 - 09:24 AM, said:

We've lost our two main sources of tower building over the past decade: banks and residential condo high rises. I can't see Wells Fargo building any new space for decades here (if ever) and Bank of America may finally be tapped out for a while. i think we are seriously witnessing the end of a half century of tower building by the banking industry here in Charlotte. I could see one of the banks step up eventually and finance a spec office tower (or one for a corporate relo) when lending thaws out and maybe we'll still see a hotel or apartment highrise here or there but I'm honestly pretty skeptical of wide spread tower building in the next 5 years.

I unfortunately agree with you 49er.  I just wonder where the demand for office space is going to come from.  We would honestly need a company HQ to move here, or one to develop in Charlotte to have any hope.  Plus we need Skye and the View to fill out before I imagine anyone will build another condo again.  And that may take a while...

[dbull75]

^You're not going to see any significant condo developments for quite some time. Not just in Charlotte, but also around the country. Lending standards are just too tight now and for the foreseeable future. You will however seen apartment projects popping up. I know there was a recent discussion from Ghazi about an apartment building on the old 210 Trade Site (the base is there for it). But he also has his own legal problems at the moment too. I also want to say there was another uptown apartment project, but don't recall where I heard it, so I could be completely wrong on that. As far as office towers go, yes you won't see anything from the banks. I think demand will be there in the next few years to build one but it would all depend on whether or not financing is difficult.

[Urbanity]

My own takeaways:

I'm not too concerned about being number 3, 4, or 5 in the South when it comes to skyscrapers as the litmus test mainly because I think Charlotte already has one of the nicest skylines. Add the soon to be (finally) completed Park/Skye) and I'm generally pretty happy.

Future skyscraper wishes is one concrete: The Epicentre tower in any form though I would lean myself towards a commercial building/hotel over residential.

Of greater concern to me for Charlotte's standing is more about finishing things:  Romare Bearden Park, BLE, reestablishing retail in the city core, streetcar, First Ward Park, and Gateway Station.

Sometimes I think Charlotte needs less vision and plans  and more of a checklist with a measured completion rate.

[ah59396]

^  I'm glad to see Romare Bearden underway.  Likewise its nice to see the Little Sugar Creek Greenway finishing up.  I wonder if after that finishes up, they will really begin to focus attention on RB?

[dbull75]

Sort of off-topic here, but it looks like Amazon has purchased property in its home city of Seattle to build 3 million square feet of office space for a new HQ. From what I read on a few other sites the way the property is zoned currently it allows up to 500 ft or about 40 stories. I wouldn't be surprised for them to get it rezoned to build something taller. Kind of sad in a way that Charlotte won't see anything close to this for a while. The "homegrown" companies we have pretty much have built out their needs for the foreseeable future. Perhaps someone has a new company they are starting up that will explode in growth down the road that we just don't know about yet

http://www.techflash...al-seattle.html

[nashbill]

How about Duke Energy?  They seem to be in a growth mode.  Did they acquire the name of the company eludes me at the moment, Progressive Energy, maybe?  If they continue acquiring other companies, they might be the next company to require more space.  As an aside Girrantana is a dreamer and some of his propasals never get built.  We, here in Nashville can only hope it will be built.  It is an unusal looking building.

[AirNostrumMAD]

^ Yeah, but don't they have enough space to expand in their current building?

[norm21499]

nashbill, on 20 February 2012 - 02:02 PM, said:

How about Duke Energy?  They seem to be in a growth mode.  Did they acquire the name of the company eludes me at the moment, Progressive Energy, maybe?  If they continue acquiring other companies, they might be the next company to require more space.  As an aside Girrantana is a dreamer and some of his propasals never get built.  We, here in Nashville can only hope it will be built.  It is an unusal looking building.

Duke has not built anything in Charlotte in years. They didn't even build their new HQ building, which was supposed to be Wachovia's HQ.

[dbull75]

nashbill, on 20 February 2012 - 02:02 PM, said:

How about Duke Energy?  They seem to be in a growth mode.  Did they acquire the name of the company eludes me at the moment, Progressive Energy, maybe?  If they continue acquiring other companies, they might be the next company to require more space.  As an aside Girrantana is a dreamer and some of his propasals never get built.  We, here in Nashville can only hope it will be built.  It is an unusal looking building.

Duke Energy's acquisition of Progress Energy will only mildly add to the local employee base here. I do see the in growth mode in the future, however I don't believe the growth there would be like that at a financial or retail company in terms of increased head count.

[Urbanity]

I know I already posted this, but I think it's worth repeating - I'm not too worried about the next skyscraper happening.  It will.  When?  Can't say - it may be a while, but it doesn't bother me a bit.

My biggest concern is the city's infrastructure (mass transit and parks) being built as well as attracting retail to the core and retrofitting existing downtown buildings to have street retail.

Not coincidentally - I think when you take care of the latter, the former is more likely to happen due to the increased attractiveness and marketability of the city for companies looking to relocate to the core

[ah59396]

Urbanity, on 21 February 2012 - 05:41 AM, said:

I know I already posted this, but I think it's worth repeating - I'm not too worried about the next skyscraper happening.  It will.  When?  Can't say - it may be a while, but it doesn't bother me a bit.

My biggest concern is the city's infrastructure (mass transit and parks) being built as well as attracting retail to the core and retrofitting existing downtown buildings to have street retail.

Not coincidentally - I think when you take care of the latter, the former is more likely to happen due to the increased attractiveness and marketability of the city for companies looking to relocate to the core

I agree with your statement.  My priority lies solely with mass transit at this point.  Ignoring all the discussions about its cost and TOD, the fact can't be discounted that mass transit helps to push urbanization.  Plus it is undeniable that the more people moving in and out of uptown via transit, means less cars, means less desire for parking lots, means foot traffic, means retail development and so on and so on.  But I'd still like to see another skyscraper pop up.  I'm a junkie for those things...

[norm21499]

Would it be feasible to attract retail to uptown by offering tax breaks to retailers, or by offering some other kind of subsidy?

[Urbanity]

ah59396, on 21 February 2012 - 09:57 AM, said:

But I'd still like to see another skyscraper pop up.  I'm a junkie for those things...

Me too!  Just don't think it's going to happen for a few years so I guess it's slipped from my high wish list (if that makes any sense).

norm21499, on 21 February 2012 - 03:33 PM, said:

Would it be feasible to attract retail to uptown by offering tax breaks to retailers, or by offering some other kind of subsidy?

  I think the bigger issue is lack of retail appropriate space.   Downtown just doesn't have it.  

Now tax breaks for retrofitting buildings in the area for retail is a possibility for spurring interest level of retailers/building owners