73 replies to this topic

[dubone]

Ok, Silver Line.  I think I blocked it out of my memory because it's a pretty dumb "color" selection.  As for "scrapped for now", that is exactly what I am talking about.  It isn't scrapped, but simply deferred for future consideration as the Red Line should be.   It stays on the books and gets reassessed for priority at a later date.  

As for 8 lanes to Troutman, it is on the State TIP road planning list as unfunded, and obviously no discussion of transit planning will have anything to do with funding the freeway.  It is currently prioritized to be widened to Exit 33 in 2020, and unfunded beyond that.

[thetrick]

Why kill the project? Just stop at Davidson. http://redlineregion...orridor-Map.pdf

Iredell can sit back and watch the economic growth to the south.

TH

[The Escapists]

thetrick, on 17 January 2012 - 08:21 AM, said:

Why kill the project? Just stop at Davidson. http://redlineregion...orridor-Map.pdf

Iredell can sit back and watch the economic growth to the south.

TH

I agree actually. Initially, Mooresville was necessary because they needed a larger tax base to make the numbers float, but if you're talking about TIFs and alternate financing, they should be able to take Mooresville out.

Edited by The Escapists, 17 January 2012 - 08:43 AM.

[southslider]

^Oh well. Lowe's had already pushed the Mount Mourne station even farther from their front door.  So if you don't have destination employment for bi-directional ridership, you can run fewer trains.  So maybe it is a mixed blessing of lower capital (less track) and operating (fewer trains) costs.

But alas, Lake Norman commuters will just have to accept higher tolls on the planned HOT lanes between Cornelius and Uptown.  That's because it doesn't take many more drivers in the peak period to cause gridlock.  And tolls should be priced accordingly to keep the new (north of I-485) and converted (where HOV today) lanes moving.

Edited by southslider, 17 January 2012 - 08:57 AM.

[rooster8]

I don't know if it's feasible without Iredell's participation, but I would imagine the northern towns would try to push ahead anyway in some form or fashion.

[ajfunder]

Well the Red Line lost 5-0.... Where do we go from here. The Observer article was at least held a little promise for the future of the Red Line unlike WBTV, WSOC, and WCNC's reports which were pretty much doom and gloom if the project lost the vote.

[kermit]

This just in, NCDOT calls Iredell County Comission morons:

Quote

“They had a variety of legitimate concerns that have been talked about but not nailed down specifically in a way they can understand and support,” Morris said. “Every local government approaches things somewhat differently and we need to find the right words to cover the bases for all of the nine entities.”

and expresses some non-specific hope that their concerns can be effectively addressed before the project approval deadline according to Huntersvile Herald

http://www.huntersvi...r-rail-leaders/

Edited by kermit, 19 January 2012 - 11:15 PM.

[kermit]

The bad news just keeps coming for the red line. Today's CBJ cover article:

Quote

Norfolk Southern is not on board with Charlotte transit plan


Railroad has ‘serious concerns’ about commuter rail plan

http://www.bizjourna...d.html?ana=e_ph

[caterpillar2]

according to the local (Lake area) papers, the red line is "not" dead in the water. The Iredel County commissioners  want another few months for a more comprehensive report. Alternatively, there is also talk of possibly not running the red line as far as planned, maybe to Davidson. Unfortunately, the rail company said that there haven't been agreements reached as reported in the media. It is a mess, but it isn't dead at this time.

[thetrick]

Sooo Meck and Cats have not been talking to the railroad (Norfolk Southern)??

http://www.charlotte...stions-red.html

I always had wondered why they never seemed to talk about specifics in regards to NS and why NS people were not at the meetings, but I just thought they (Meck and CATS) had it under control. Turns out they do not.

NS owns the tracks!! How in the world could you propose this idea with out NS being in 100% agreement? This is insane. I am a big supporter of the red line, but this it a pretty big screw up on the city’s part.

TH

[norm21499]

For some reason I am thinking that the city was waiting to talk to NS last....cause securing the right of way is one of the last things you do before construction begins. this is pretty insane though I agree. the city makes all these grand plans for something they do not own!

[dubone]

Especially since unlike any other plan requiring right of way, railroad land cannot be acquired by eminent domain.  

I can't help but think, though, that maybe they always assumed back when fed money was sought, that it would never happen, and then briefly it seemed plausible with the newer financing plans, and they saw an opening to pile on with bad news after Mooresville leaders didn't want it.  

It is a shame that railroad companies are so opposed to passenger rail.  But they seem to always be against it.

[thetrick]

I get a feeling that the freight railroads will be more passenger oriented when it starts making them money.

I noticed that in one of the past articles they mentioned using Amtrak to run the red line. Now looking back I know why, the freight railroads are required by law to allow Amtrak to operate on their rails at a reasonable cost. This would be one way to force NS to allow the project, but it does not make for a very cooperative partner.

TH

[norm21499]

Until the city gets approval from NS, I will consider the Red Line dead in the water.

[tozmervo]

I feel like the media has painted this very much as the "final draft" "make or break" version of the red line, when in reality this has been a series of presentations to the major players in the red line's future. They're going to go back to the drawing board, revise and update the plans, and go back to the players later. I am still bullish on the red line's future.

[kermit]

Norfolk Southern loves to bash the red line: http://www.bizjourna...du_pub&page=all

Quote

An executive at track owner Norfolk Southern Corp.     sent an email to the N.C. Department of Transportation today that called the state-backed plan introduced last year “fatally flawed” and “based upon assumptions ... that are no longer valid.”  

[tozmervo]

So glad Norfolk Southern is being a constructive partner in the process. What a great corporate citizen.

[thetrick]

I am going to speculate, but I bet that NS has a problem with operating freight on the line with passenger service. I believe that the plan from city was to have freight operate during the night while passenger trains operate during the day. While this might sound reasonable it is not. Freight operations don't involve just the RR they also involve all the businesses that are served by the RR, which means many of those businesses would have to have staff on hand at night to receive shipments from the RR.  Or more simply put NS does not like the city changing the way it can deliver to it’s customers in a negative way. If you restrict how NS can operate you limit it’s potential customers. To make the Red Line able to handle freight and passenger service at all hours would require a lot more $$$ put into sidings and signals.

[Windsurfer]

But, really, where is all this supposed freight coming from?  Lowes?  That's a corporate HQ.  All the mills have long since been shut down and most of the towns, like Charlotte, promote office and service type industry. Nobody really wants heavy industrial in their backyard. It's a rare day now to see a train with any kind of cargo using those rails.

[thetrick]

Windsurfer, on 22 February 2012 - 08:10 AM, said:

But, really, where is all this supposed freight coming from?  Lowes?  That's a corporate HQ.  All the mills have long since been shut down and most of the towns, like Charlotte, promote office and service type industry. Nobody really wants heavy industrial in their backyard. It's a rare day now to see a train with any kind of cargo using those rails.

It's not so much about some big customer, it's the dozens of smaller customers that litter the line. Like Pactive Corp, which has a dozen cars at their site or FXI which has about 8 cars. I found these companies looking at a very small part of the line.  Don't forget Gerdau Ameristeel's steel mill which is the bulk of the lines traffic south of Mooresville. NS upgraded the rail between Gerdau and the charlotte yard just to handle the heavy loads into and out of this plant. The Line up to just south of Mooresville is served daily M-F from Charlotte, Mooresville and north is served by a local out of Spencer.  This is actually pretty busy for a line only hauling local traffic.

I am all for the red line, but the city should have had the railroad operations as a top priority, and that just does not seem to have been the case.

TH