723 replies to this topic

[Neo]

What's the latest on the First Ward Urban Village?  Here is all I can find on the project on the net and it comes from Center City Partners.


Plans continue to evolve for the redevelopment of 20+ acres of underutilized land in the First Ward.  Levine Properties and Cousins Properties continue master planning efforts for a development that may ultimately include:

• An eight-acre park
  
• A 1,500 space underground parking deck
  
• Cultural Facilities
  
• Office Space
  
• Retail Space
  
• Condominiums and apartments

Proximity to the new Children's Learning Center and the new arena have altered the scope of the project and may ultimately speed up the construction timeline significantly.

[dubone]

I'm a first ward resident, so I am looking forward to the day when those parking lots would be filled with a park, offices, shops, and people.

From what I understand, the park will be the first element of this plan to be implemented.  Levine is working with city on funding the parking deck beneath the park.  I think the city is hoping for passage of "Self-Financing Bonds" (Amendment One) next week to determine the financing options for the deck.  I think if Amendment One passes, this area will one of the first districts to take advantage of the new financing option.

Center City Partners is also doing a study of the arena area as an Arts and Entertainment District.  I attended one of their idea forums, and they mentioned that DOT is doing a study on where sidewalks, parking decks, street-widenings, etc., are needed as a result of all the arena-area developments.  

There is no way this district will be built at once, and as Levine is a developer of commercial space, and not residential, I think he will possibly farm some it out to Blvd Centro (very successful in first ward so far), or some other residential developers.  The specific mix and design of this district will depend on the market conditions at the time it is built.  I think Levine is waiting as long as possible before building in order to maximize what can be built there.

Other than the park, my favorite idea in his original plan is Market street to run along the trolley tracks.  If done right, it could be the best bet for a cluster of street-facing national and regional shopping uptown.  

The most ironic part of the plan, is that he wants to turn the current greenspace (between brevard and college) into a development, and he wants to turn the current parking lots (between brevard and the trolley line) into a park.  I do agree, though, that a park along the trolley tracks will be more likely to get people off the train and into the neighborhood to shop, relax, etc.

[Neo]

Uptown is in desperate need, first and foremost, of a park IMO.  Marshall Park is a joke at best.  The best park we have is the smallest park uptown at The Green.  We really need something with more than 8 acres but I know space is also limited.  I wish they'd buy up the 20 acres that just went up for sale and make it one big park...that's a dream at best though.

[appatone]

dubone, on Oct 25 2004, 01:03 PM, said:

I think he will possibly farm some it out to Blvd Centro (very successful in first ward so far), or some other residential developers. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree with you and I think Blvd Centro is already talking to them.  When Blvd Centro talked about a future tower taller than courtside to be announced later it was my personal speculation that it would be in conjunction with this project somehow.

[dubone]

Good point about Furman's reference.  It makes sense that it would be the block just across the street from citiside, which is owned by Levine.

[norm21499]

I have not heard anything about this project. What streets is the project supposed to cover?

[dubone]

Levine's property and potential for pairing will the County owned Hal Marshall site.

This district is bounded by 6th Street, College Street, Caldwell Street and 11th Street or Brookshire.   With the exception of a few parcels, Levine owns almost the whole area that is not government owned.

the first step to transferring the county blocks has already begun.  the county has already bought freedom  mall, the chosen location for relocating Hal Marshall services.  the area was one of the sites that the Knights were looking at for a stadium.   Most likely, the county will sell to Levine and it will be part of his planned development.

[uptownliving]

I am also a First Ward resident...and a lifetime resident of Charlotte. This project has been on the books since 1998. It has gone through many iterations over the years. Everyone that works with Levine knows that he is slow to make a decision on development. However the decisions he does make tend to be good ones.

There have been a multitude of studies done on this property...a couple small area plans...a traffic study, a parking study...and now the latest Arena Small Area plan that dubone mentioned.

The city and county have already done a land swap....so that Meck Co owns the block bounded by 9th, Brevard, 8th, and Caldwell....this is the "green area" that dubone spoke of. Since Meck Co is about to allocate some $20M+ for the development of the Third Ward aka West Park, I am skeptical that Meck will be allocating any money for a First Ward park anytime soon, unless Levine comes up with a really good deal.

I do hope something happens sooner rather than later. Right now the parking lots act as a "moat" between the residential section of First Ward and the towers of the business district. The sooner we get rid of that sea of parking lots, the better.

[UptownJ]

Has anyone heard anything about a so called "Tryon urban village" in Center City. I've read about the thought but haven't heard anything other than the name.

Any Updates?

[ElricSeven]

UptownJ, on Feb 1 2005, 11:51 AM, said:

Has anyone heard anything about a so called "Tryon urban village" in Center City. I've read about the thought but haven't heard anything other than the name.

Any Updates?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think you mean the Urban Village in First Ward?  We're going to hear the recommendations from the study next month I think.  Unless someone in the know wants to leak a little information about their recommendations..

[dubone]

UptownJ, on Feb 1 2005, 09:51 AM, said:

Has anyone heard anything about a so called "Tryon urban village" in Center City. I've read about the thought but haven't heard anything other than the name.

Any Updates?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There really are two landowners for roughly 16 blocks of land southeast of N. Tryon St. and northeast of E 6th St. : Levine Properties (Daniel Levine) of Family Dollar wealth, and Mecklenburg County.  Meck is slowly moving its services out of
its Hal Marshall Center on their land to their newly acquired Freedom Mall complex.  Originally, the county had a competition for acquiring their land, and Levine had been in the running to combine it with their land for a massive project.  
Here was Levine's proposal:  http://www.coopercar...tteQuarter.html

The county chose another developer Palladium, which later dropped the project when the economy fizzled in 2001/2002.   Levine, who already owned most the neighboring land, and had spent money on his proposal to be interested, but his time table shifted to mollasses speed.  

When the arena came to First Ward, Levine started talking like his plans will come to fruition sooner.   The centerpiece of Levine's plans have always been his park (called "The Quarter" in the plans).  To build the park, he has consistently sought city funds for an underground parking deck.  He supposed that the arena would bring the funds for parking.  Time has passed, and there are still no announcements about parking funds, so the land continues to sit idle (except for parking lots, and a few old buildings such as Dixies Tavern).

Word on this forum is that Levine is redrawing his plans, using ULI, and is possibly on the verge of making something happen.  It is 100% definite that Levine will do SOMETHING with his land EVENTUALLY.  When he makes a deal for the parking deck, it will likely be the spark to develop the park and some surrounding projects.  He will likely continue to develop his land methodically and slowly, in order to make maximum use and advantage.

I personally (with no inside knowledge at all) think he will get funds for parking, and build his park within the next 3 years.  I think he will build an initial phase of a shopping district along the park (he called it Market St. in his proposal a few years ago) within 5 years.  The rest of his land, and the county's land will likely take another decade or two to be majority developed.   There may, however, be some interim uses other that parking lots, that would be cheap to put up and raze.

[UptownJ]

dubone, on Feb 1 2005, 11:29 AM, said:

There really are two landowners for roughly 16 blocks of land southeast of N. Tryon St. and northeast of E 6th St. : Levine Properties (Daniel Levine) of Family Dollar wealth, and Mecklenburg County.  Meck is slowly moving its services out of
its Hal Marshall Center on their land to their newly acquired Freedom Mall complex.  Originally, the county had a competition for acquiring their land, and Levine had been in the running to combine it with their land for a massive project. 
Here was Levine's proposal:  http://www.coopercar...tteQuarter.html

The county chose another developer Palladium, which later dropped the project when the economy fizzled in 2001/2002.   Levine, who already owned most the neighboring land, and had spent money on his proposal to be interested, but his time table shifted to mollasses speed. 

When the arena came to First Ward, Levine started talking like his plans will come to fruition sooner.   The centerpiece of Levine's plans have always been his park (called "The Quarter" in the plans).  To build the park, he has consistently sought city funds for an underground parking deck.  He supposed that the arena would bring the funds for parking.  Time has passed, and there are still no announcements about parking funds, so the land continues to sit idle (except for parking lots, and a few old buildings such as Dixies Tavern).

Word on this forum is that Levine is redrawing his plans, using ULI, and is possibly on the verge of making something happen.  It is 100% definite that Levine will do SOMETHING with his land EVENTUALLY.  When he makes a deal for the parking deck, it will likely be the spark to develop the park and some surrounding projects.  He will likely continue to develop his land methodically and slowly, in order to make maximum use and advantage.

I personally (with no inside knowledge at all) think he will get funds for parking, and build his park within the next 3 years.  I think he will build an initial phase of a shopping district along the park (he called it Market St. in his proposal a few years ago) within 5 years.  The rest of his land, and the county's land will likely take another decade or two to be majority developed.   There may, however, be some interim uses other that parking lots, that would be cheap to put up and raze.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow... Thanks for the info dubone... I really hope this comes into reality. I just looked at the website you provided and it would be a great continuation of downtown and would benefit all who live, work, shop, or play there. I'm keeping my fingures crossed it will happen.

[uptownliving]

Who wants to make a bet that the latest Levine study will be just like the 10 previous ones?

[UptownJ]

uptownliving, on Feb 1 2005, 02:58 PM, said:

Who wants to make a bet that the latest Levine study will be just like the 10 previous ones?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Has any of his studies ever filtered into reality?

[dubone]

uptownliving, on Feb 1 2005, 01:58 PM, said:

Who wants to make a bet that the latest Levine study will be just like the 10 previous ones?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i think they will have 10 blocks of smooth asphalt paving with parking spot markings and coin slot booths.  They may include 3 or 4 boarded up, decaying old buildings, and fire department offices.  their latest plans may include trolley operations to 9th street, though.  

On one of these forums, someone mentioned that they plan to shift the park 90 degrees, and expect that the old north tryon buildings between 7th and 9th will be torn down.  THOSE buildings, i'd fight to keep.

[ElricSeven]

uptownliving, on Feb 1 2005, 03:58 PM, said:

Who wants to make a bet that the latest Levine study will be just like the 10 previous ones?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm swearing off paying attention to anything too closesly until I see bulldozers.

B)

[atlrvr]

The ULI plan will recommend swinging the park 90 degrees so that it is bounded by 7th, 8th, Brevard and College St, with the trolley/LRT line bisecting the park.  They want the track section to be converted into a plaza with Dixies being turned into a Farmer's market managed by Reid's (not sure that will happen).  The recommendation is that underground parking be installed under the park.  Furthermore, Brevard is supposed to become a 2-way street lined with mid-rise housing (8 stories tops) with some retail on the ground floor.  These are the two major infrastructure recommendations....the rest is about museum locations and other stuff.

The problem with these kind of reports is that they are never binding and have little political teeth.  In fact, the client for this report is Center City Partners, who have no real muscle anyways with the city.  Levine did participate in the planning process and it will really be up to him and other corporate entities (see BofA) to see this plan to fruition.

That's always been the problem with this city.  The city doesn't drive investments, they let the private development community take charge, and adapt their plans accordingly.  Therefore, we don't have unique cultural investments, but a convenient/efficient gift from a corporate benefactor.

[ElricSeven]

atlrvr, on Feb 1 2005, 04:42 PM, said:

The ULI plan will recommend swinging the park 90 degrees so that it is bounded by 7th, 8th, Brevard and College St, with the trolley/LRT line bisecting the park.  They want the track section to be converted into a plaza with Dixies being turned into a Farmer's market managed by Reid's (not sure that will happen).  The recommendation is that underground parking be installed under the park.  Furthermore, Brevard is supposed to become a 2-way street lined with mid-rise housing (8 stories tops) with some retail on the ground floor.  These are the two major infrastructure recommendations....the rest is about museum locations and other stuff.

The problem with these kind of reports is that they are never binding and have little political teeth.  In fact, the client for this report is Center City Partners, who have no real muscle anyways with the city.  Levine did participate in the planning process and it will really be up to him and other corporate entities (see BofA) to see this plan to fruition.

That's always been the problem with this city.  The city doesn't drive investments, they let the private development community take charge, and adapt their plans accordingly.  Therefore, we don't have unique cultural investments, but a convenient/efficient gift from a corporate benefactor.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

When do they expect the digging to start?

[atlrvr]

That's the problem......there are no specific recommendations to that effect......I think we will see some action up on Tryon and College and the new Mint might break ground early next year......that should probably start the park as well.  Also, seeing how successful the Bobcats are at filling up the arena should be a good gauge at how quickly all of this gets done.  I still don't see Levine breaking ground until at least spring of next year.

[dubone]

atlrvr, on Feb 1 2005, 02:42 PM, said:

The ULI plan will recommend swinging the park 90 degrees so that it is bounded by 7th, 8th, Brevard and College St, with the trolley/LRT line bisecting the park.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are you sure that is between 7th and 8th rather than 8th and 9th?  I thought i had read 8th and 9th somewhere.  I would not be in favor of the location you mention because most of the surround blocks are already developed.  I also think it would provide less of a connection and amenity for the current population base in first ward.

Frankly, i don't see CATs going along with the idea, anyway.  There was an article last year about how ron tober freaked out about putting pavers along the tracks uptown for pedestrian activity.... he said he didn't want any pedestrians crossing the tracks except at street crossings.  But who knows.

Thanks for the info (as always).