144 replies to this topic

[rusthebuss]

thelakelander, on Feb 14 2005, 01:06 PM, said:

The best thing for The Hampton Roads would be consolidating the region into one large city, although that will never happen. 
Why not, its usally more expensive to build in a dense inner city area, compared to operating in suburban locations.  BTW, does every city in the region have their own economic development agencies?  Is there one main economic development authority for the entire region?
Downtown Norfolk is just the business, historical & cultural center for the metro, just look at the skyline, compared to the other cities.  The region, as a whole, will be much stronger by building up the core, instead of spreading jobs in the suburbs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree but that will never happen. The city mayor for Vabeach would never give her power up. They have tried to join the southside and make one city but Vabeach always says no. Norfok and Portsmouth are still trying to join.

[Cotuit]

What a weird little place. It actually strikes me as a great place to live if it could solidify it's urbanism (things like transit), but if it continues to be so balkanized it will only hurt itself in the end. The various cities should not allow developers to play themselves off each other.

[rusthebuss]

Cotuit, on Feb 14 2005, 01:33 PM, said:

What a weird little place. It actually strikes me as a great place to live if it could solidify it's urbanism (things like transit), but if it continues to be so balkanized it will only hurt itself in the end. The various cities should not allow developers to play themselves off each other.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The state (VDOT) doesn't like helping us with road building, just taking our revenue. This battle has been going on for a while and i don't forsee a end to it.

Edited by rusthebuss, 14 February 2005 - 12:02 PM.

[vdogg]

thelakelander, on Feb 14 2005, 12:06 PM, said:

The best thing for The Hampton Roads would be consolidating the region into one large city, although that will never happen.

Agreed , on both points. I kinda envisioned and NYC style government with each city acting as its own borough.

Quote

  BTW, does every city in the region have their own economic development agencies?  Is there one main economic development authority for the entire region?

Interesting you should ask that question. I think before only a few days ago, each city had its own economic develop agency. I read an article the other day that says all those entities have now merged into the Hampton Roads Economic Development Alliance (which always existed, but now they have a few more teeth). When i find the article i'll post it here.

Quote

Downtown Norfolk is just the business, historical & cultural center for the metro, just look at the skyline, compared to the other cities.  The region, as a whole, will be much stronger by building up the core, instead of spreading jobs in the suburbs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Cool, and i have no problem with that, but that is still no reason for Va. Beach to stop its current plan for urbanization. There seems to be broad support in our city for making this move and i really don't think it is hurting Norfolk as much as some would have you believe. Va. Beach has 2 proposed major high-rise projects on the books right now. Norfolk has 9. They are both doing well and we should be happy about this. There seems to be 2 basic schools of thought on this subject. There are those that believe that Va. Beach started a suburb and therefore should always remain a suburb, this is not something that i can support. There are others that believe, myself included, that as a city grows and matures the nature of that city will grow and mature with it (this city is only about 50-60 years old). It is the natural progression of things. Va. Beach as a twin city instead  of a suburb will do nothing to hurt Norfolk, what it will do is expand the tax base in Va. Beach and take some pressure off of the average resident (home values ,and therefore tax assesments, rose 20-22% this year!). I love all the development going on in downtown Norfolk and i want to see more. I am equally as supportive of efforts at towncenter and i think that in the coming years it will prove itself an asset, not just to Va. Beach, but to the region as a whole. I've lived in both cities and love them both, so don't think i'm favoring Va. Beach. I'm just saying that Va. Beach deserves a chance to make this work and some of the criticism leveled towards Va. Beach for trying to urbanize is unwarranted.

Edited by vdogg, 14 February 2005 - 03:17 PM.

[vdogg]

In answer to your earlier question

thelakelander, on Feb 14 2005, 12:06 PM, said:

  BTW, does every city in the region have their own economic development agencies?  Is there one main economic development authority for the entire region?

Regional economic alliances OK merger
The South Hampton Roads group and its Peninsula counterpart become one. Now, the work really begins.

  
http://www.dailypres...ness-localheads

BY JODY SNIDER
247-7874

February 4, 2005

For decades, the James River has been known as the line in the sand, the great divide separating the Peninsula's politics, people and community from those living and working "across the water" in South Hampton Roads.

On Thursday, it became a connector.

The full board of the Hampton Roads Economic Development Alliance, the South Hampton Roads economic development group, gave its unanimous approval for a merger with the Peninsula Alliance for Economic Development.

The regional alliance will be called the Hampton Roads Economic Development Alliance, and it will be led by C. Jones Hooks, president and chief executive officer for the South Hampton Roads group. The Peninsula's counterpart, Rick Weigel, has said he plans to resume retirement.

"It's been a long time coming," Hooks said.

After almost two years of hammering out details of a merger, 39 members of the 120-member board of the South Hampton Roads group cast the final approval. The combined alliance will represent 13 Virginia jurisdictions, seven Peninsula and six South Hampton Roads localities, starting March 1.

The efforts to merge go back 10 years, when the Virginia Peninsula Economic Development Council dissolved in 1996 after 16 years. Talks about merging the two economic development groups rekindled about two years ago when the Peninsula group started looking for more ways to make the group competitive. Then in January 2004, the agencies hit an impasse, and talks stopped. The Peninsula agency had asked that a three-page outline of the merger proposal be turned in to an expensive legal document before it was presented to the seven Peninsula localities.

Although the South Hampton Roads group wanted the merger, some officials of the smaller Peninsula localities worried the localities might be overshadowed by the offerings of larger communities in South Hampton Roads. Negotiations were rekindled when Newport News Mayor Joe Frank called a special meeting of the Peninsula mayors, chairs and alliance board members to ask them to reconsider the merger agreement.

"This was an idea whose time had come," Newport News Mayor Joe Frank said. "It took a lot of effort, and a lot of hand-holding."

Frank said one major ice-breaker that helped the negotiations came when city managers and city attorneys from both sides of the water met to discuss how prospects would be handled by a regional alliance.

"They wanted to know who would get to talk to the prospects. How would that work? And it was learned that both alliances worked the same way in that regard. Both looked at a company's need and then determined what each community had to offer. And each of those communities would have an opportunity to talk with the company," Frank said.

Virginia Beach Mayor Meyera E. Oberndorf agreed that the negotiations to the final merger weren't easy.

"There were some grains of sand and rocks," Oberndorf said. "Old ways die hard."

Other consolidations from both sides of the James River include the Virginia Symphony, the Virginia Port Authority, Hampton Roads Transit, the Hampton Roads Planning District Commission and the Hampton Roads Partnership, a coalition of 17 local governments and business, education and military leaders that was established in 1996 to promote economic development in the region.

"If you're going to be one metropolitan area, you need to act like one," said Rick Weigel, chief executive officer and president of the Peninsula alliance.

Weigel said there are 17 people on the payroll for both organizations, but the merger proposal only mentions 16 employees. Thirteen people will work in Norfolk and three will work at a Peninsula office.

The Peninsula's work force development group is a part of the merger. It will continue as the Peninsula Council for Workforce Development. Matthew James, serving as vice president of the alliance, will become the president and chief executive officer of the council.

[vdogg]

Ok, so rereading the article it appears that there were already several different regional alliances that have now been merged into one alliance (Wow, it does sound like the balkans ).

[vdogg]

I was looking through and realized i hadn't posted anything on this project yet (hard to keep track of all the forums i post too).

Dense development planned for Wedgewood site in Va. Beach

By JON W. GLASS, The Virginian-Pilot
© February 7, 2005
Last updated: 7:50 PM

VIRGINIA BEACH — From Interstate 264, the former site of Wedgewood Mobile Home Park appears like a barren wasteland.

Scattered about are a few ruined trailers, the skeletal remains of a park that once housed 383 mobile homes and about 900 residents. The rest of the park is scarred patches of dirt, a boarded-up clubhouse and winter-bare trees.

On this spot, developers Art and Steve Sandler hope to build an urban-style neighborhood in this decidedly suburban city.

The 48-acre tract is near the Independence Boulevard off-ramp, within sight of the 23-story Town Center tower.

On Wednesday, Wedgewood Associates LLC will present its plan – a dense, urbanized residential development called Cornerstone – to the city Planning Commission.

Wedgewood Associates, an affiliate of L.M. Sandler & Sons of Virginia Beach, wants to rezone the property for up to 846 townhouses and apartments. That would double the site’s housing density.

City officials are encouraging the proposal, saying it fits their plan to transform Pembroke and Town Center into a bustling downtown where residents shop, dine, work and live.

“I think it’s going to set the tone for the area and, hopefully, spur additional redevelopment,” said Barbara Duke, a senior planner who reviewed the proposal. “This is new and very different than any other development in the city, and it’s a major investment in an area of the city we haven’t seen major investment in.”

Steve Sandler said he and his brother saw the potential of Wedgewood when the city broke ground on Town Center five years ago.

“Most people saw a trailer park,” Sandler said. “My brother and I saw the future of Virginia Beach. This may very well end up being the right project at the right time for downtown Virginia Beach.”

The Sandlers bought the mobile home park for $12 million last May. They evicted 900 residents, mostly low-income, many on fixed income and with poor credit. Some could not move their trailers because of the cost or the age of the homes.

After reviewing plans for Cornerstone, city planners asked the developers to consider setting aside part of the project as affordable housing. Sandler said the city has no requirement for creating affordable housing, so he could not comply with that request.

“I’m in favor of having a city with all its residents having a place to live, but we’re not making policy here,” he said. “We’re just trying to make a good community.”


An artist's rendering of the planned Cornerstone development. WEDGEWOOD ASSOCIATES LLC  


Sandler described Cornerstone as “moderately priced.” The one- to three-bedroom townhouses are expected to sell from the mid-$100,000s to more than $300,000, Sandler said. The less-expensive units are mixed throughout the project, he said.

Cornerstone would offer 234 two-story townhomes built atop each other in four-story buildings. The concept of “stacked” townhouses has become trendy in urban markets, but is new to Virginia Beach, Duke said.

The project also would include 242 three-story townhouses and 370 apartments. The apartments would adjoin a four-story parking garage, an urban element that’s rare in Virginia Beach.

Buildings will front Bonney Road, Dolton Drive and Alicia Drive. They will feature front porches and rear-loaded garages.

The site is within one of 12 “strategic growth areas” targeted by city planners as suitable locations for much of Virginia Beach’s future growth. Most of the areas lie along I-264. The goal is to create dense, urban-like development mixing homes and stores.

Sandler said the Wedgewood site is not large enough to accommodate anything more than homes. He said Cornerstone fits the city’s vision of creating a population center around Town Center.

Sandler declined to comment on whether his company plans to redevelop adjacent properties, including the neighboring County View Mobile Court, the city’s largest mobile home community.

Reach Jon W. Glass at 222-5119 or jon.glass@pilotonline.com

Edited by vdogg, 14 February 2005 - 03:42 PM.

[vdogg]

Beach planners endorse Wedgewood proposal
By JON W. GLASS, The Virginian-Pilot
© February 10, 2005

VIRGINIA BEACH — A dense, urban-style housing development proposed for the site of the former Wedgewood Mobile Home Park won unanimous support Wednesday from the city Planning Commission.

The approval came despite misgivings that the city was missing out on a chance to address the Beach’s growing need for “work force housing.”

Wedgewood Associates LLC, an affiliate of Virginia Beach developer L.M. Sandler & Sons, wants to rezone 48 acres for as many as 846 apartments and townhouses.

That’s more than double the 383 mobile homes once there.

Tim McCarthy, a representative of Empower Hampton Roads, opposed the project because it lacks a specific plan to address affordable housing. Empower Hampton Roads, a coalition of 23 churches pushing for social justice, is one of several groups, including developers, now working with the city to create a policy for work force housing.

McCarthy said the city’s Comprehensive Plan, a blueprint for growth, encourages affordable housing but “you don’t have the teeth in your zoning laws to make that happen.”

R.J. Nutter II, an attorney representing Wedgewood Associates, said some of the units will sell for $125,000. That, he said, would qualify as affordable housing “regardless of how you define it.”
He could not say how many units would be offered at that price.

The most expensive units, he said, are expected to sell for as much as $350,000.

Commission members expressed sympathy for McCarthy’s view but said the city lacks a policy to require developers to set aside affordable housing.

“I believe it is a goal that needs to be worked at,” said commission member Jan Anderson.

The project, called Cornerstone, would be built south of the interchange at Interstate 264 and Independence Boulevard.

Its urban design and density are meant to complement nearby Town Center, the city’s new downtown.

“This is just very exciting,” said c ommission member Robert Miller. “We’re really talking about an urban corridor ... that’s got some sophistication.”

The City Council, which has final say, is expected to vote on the rezoning in March.

[vdogg]

If all the drama over the TBA development is any indication this may not go through. This is both good and bad. On the one hand, i'd really like to see development extend across the I-264 corridor. On the other hand it really pisses me off that they kicked out all thouse people who had no where to go, and on top of that refused to help them find a place to live because they didn't "have" to. Part of me hopes this project is rejected just to teach them a lesson.

http://home.hamptonr...2034&ran=177915

Drawing the line on affordable housing

The Virginian-Pilot
© February 12, 2005

Steve Sandler and his brother, Art, leveled the Wedgewood Mobile Home Park to make way for their Cornerstone project, a village of townhouses and apartments mimicking an old American city.

The 48-acre plot is near the Independence Boulevard crossroads with Interstate 264, within sight of Town Center.

In other words, that site, which the brothers bought for $12 million, is right near the city’s new downtown. Because of municipal investment at Town Center, the value of any Cornerstone home will be higher, as will the riches they’ll bring to the Sandlers.

“Most people saw a trailer park,” Steve Sandler said. “My brother and I saw the future of Virginia Beach. This may very well end up being the right project at the right time for downtown Virginia Beach.”

  
All this has come at a price, of course. About 900 people were evicted from the trailer park, some of whom complained about their treatment. There’s little question, though, that the city is better off with this kind of visionary urban neighborhood in such a prominent spot.

Under the current zoning, the brothers have a right to build roughly 12 residential units per acre. But this week, they asked the Planning Commission’s to rezone the property to allow twice as many units per acre, or 846 in all.

The Planning Commission said yes. The City Council, which must also approve the added homes, should say no.

There’s a very simple reason. The Sandlers’ quest to build more houses at Cornerstone will in obvious ways increase the pressure on Virginia Beach schools, its highways and its public safety system. But this and developments like it have less obvious, but quite substantial economic effects that the council must begin to consider.

One of city government’s highest priorities is to find some way to encourage affordable housing. There’s a severe shortage of places to live within the means of the teachers, firefighters, salesmen and other ordinary workers on whom the city’s economy, military bases, and government agencies depend.

But no amount of municipal effort will ever be enough without the help of developers like the Sandlers. The Sandlers, though, will apparently do little at Cornerstone to help that effort, at least according to brother Steve:

“I’m in favor of having a city with all its residents having a place to live, but we’re not making policy here. We’re just trying to make a good community.”

Let’s parse those comments.

“I’m in favor of having a city with all its residents having a place to live”: Affordable housing is a good thing.

“But we’re not making policy here”: We’re here to make money.

“We’re just trying to make a good community”: And that doesn’t include affordable housing and the kind of people who live in it.

In other words, after evicting 900 people from their trailers, and asking the city to give it the benefit of allowing more houses, the only way the Sandlers will build affordable housing is if they’re forced to.

That stance is simply wrong and short-sighted. Granted, the brothers’ attorney, at Wednesday’s hearing, said that neighborhood would include units that sell for $125,000, though he wouldn’t — or couldn’t — specify how many.

That’s simply not good enough. The City Council should reject the Sandlers’ appeal for more units until the developers figure out some way to make affordable housing a real part of Cornerstone instead of an off-the-cuff proposal designed to deflect criticism.

Rejection, in this case, may well be the soul of invention. It will also go a long way toward demonstrating how serious the Virginia Beach City Council will be about providing housing opportunities for the people who do important work in our community.

[bobliocatt]

The Cornerstone development looks pretty good.  I also agree, there's nothing wrong with VaBeach attempting to slow down the growth of low density development, by approving more urban oriented projects.  I only question the city government's motives, because it really seems like they are hell bent on beating all the other cities in the metro at everything, instead of freely working with the others, on key issues like light rail, to strengthen the region as a whole.

[rusthebuss]

thelakelander, on Feb 14 2005, 10:44 PM, said:

The Cornerstone development looks pretty good.  I also agree, there's nothing wrong with VaBeach attempting to slow down the growth of low density development, by approving more urban oriented projects.  I only question the city government's motives, because it really seems like they are hell bent on beating all the other cities in the metro at everything, instead of freely working with the others, on key issues like light rail, to strengthen the region as a whole.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is my exact point. Vdogg takes it as i'm attacking him or the city in general but vabeach takes silly things to the extreme. The building of these buildings will not take the burden off but add burden to home owners. This building up is causing some of the increase of property taxes. Vabeach is really doing this to surpass Norfolk and become the buisness center of Hampton Roads. They are always accusing Norfolk of trying to lure business away from vabeach that really was never there. In order for this area to work we need to see the big picture and do away with city govt. butting heads and become unified in one way or another. You talk about NYC style govt. and i believed that too but i've come to realization that these govt. will not work with each other. Even NYC govt. but heads and fight and there is plenty of development to spread around. Too much govt here

Edited by rusthebuss, 15 February 2005 - 05:58 AM.

[rusthebuss]

I support you and i do see your point vdogg. I support this area as a whole. I want this area to become the metro it has the potential to be. Nobody supports this area and those who do need to support each other and the cities we live in. Alot of people have no faith in this area and think nothing of Hampton Roads and i see this in the forum and from talking to people. Alot of people think this area will be nothing but a port and nothing else. But i feel this area is greater than that and i think you do to or you wouldn't post in this forum. So dude keep up the good work and i will back you up dude so don't think that i don't support you or vabeach. i just feel that vabeach just doesn't have good intentions for the area but just for its self. I grew up here and will probably always live here so i want it to grow.

Edited by rusthebuss, 15 February 2005 - 06:06 AM.

[vdogg]

Well, that may be true, but that being said i really don't think any govt in hampton roads has "good" intentions. I am by no means supporting council because they're idiots. But by some cosmic joke these idiots managed to turn out a good idea and thats what i'm supporting. I haven't always lived in this area. I came here about 8 years ago from Michigan. I didn't know what to think at first but gradually this area has grown on me. I have no problem with spirited debate, a forum in which everyone agrees is boring. I do see some of your points, but whatever councils intentions the end result has been great so far. I only hope it stays that way.

[rusthebuss]

vdogg, on Feb 15 2005, 08:43 AM, said:

Well, that may be true, but that being said i really don't think any govt in hampton roads has "good" intentions. I am by no means supporting council because they're idiots. But by some cosmic joke these idiots managed to turn out a good idea and thats what i'm supporting. I haven't always lived in this area. I came here about 8 years ago from Michigan. I didn't know what to think at first but gradually this area has grown on me. I have no problem with spirited debate, a forum in which everyone agrees is boring. I do see some of your points, but whatever councils intentions the end result has been great so far. I only hope it stays that way.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dude you have walked into a war that has been going on since the 60s. I'm glad that you support here we need it. See alot of people that live here have no root here so they could care less about here. Most areas have roots set in place, not here.

[vdogg]

rusthebuss, on Feb 15 2005, 08:29 AM, said:

Dude you have walked into a war that has been going on since the 60s. I'm glad that you support here we need it. See alot of people that live here have no root here so they could care less about here. Most areas have roots set in place, not here.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

When i first came here i didn't plan on having roots here, trust me. But i'm here now so i might as well make the best of it. The thing about the disagreements between the cities is that its not just the governments. It seems to run straight down to the average citizen on the street and its a very polarizing environment. If people started demanding that their governments worked closer together something would get done. But you're right. Most people don't care.

[vdogg]

People not having roots here is all part of the transient nature of a military town. Its hard to change. I wish we weren't so dependant on the military in this area. Thats a big part of the problem right there.

[bobliocatt]

Watch out what you wish for, because Jacksonville wants to help you lessen your dependancy on the military by heavily pushing for the relocation of 2 of your 5 home based aircraft carriers & their fleets to Mayport Naval Station here.

[rusthebuss]

vdogg, on Feb 15 2005, 01:03 PM, said:

People not having roots here is all part of the transient nature of a military town. Its hard to change. I wish we weren't so dependant on the military in this area. Thats a big part of the problem right there.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This area is really changing though and the it is getting less dependent of the military to a certain degree. People are starting to set roots here they just don't care about the politics of the area. I hope Jacksonville doesn't get the carriers and as of right now they can't hold a nuclear carrier.

[rusthebuss]

thelakelander, on Feb 15 2005, 01:28 PM, said:

Watch out what you wish for, because Jacksonville wants to help you lessen your dependancy on the military by heavily pushing for the relocation of 2 of your 5 home based aircraft carriers & their fleets to Mayport Naval Station here.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They were just talking about taking just one to replace the Kennedy

[Viper]

Congress has stated they do not want to consolidate their Eastern Seaboard Carriers at a single base.   Considering Jeb Bush is heavily pushing for keeping a Carrier in Jax really hard, you can expect Norfolk to lose at least one.

There was planned, or even completed, work of $300 million for the Kennedy that can now be put towards altering Mayport to support a nuclear Carrier.