17 replies to this topic

[urban addict 20324]

Due in part to logging, ignorance of the environment, job demands in factories, and other reasons, China is rapidly becoming the world's largest polluter and the region that is suffering greatly from this is Eastern China, where 1.2 billion people live. Many of its old-growth forests and ecological treasures have been destroyed for development. Massive clear-cutting of forests has led to erosion in the mountains, clouding up previously clear streams. Overgrazing of grasslands has degraded the soil, leading to sand and dust storms in summer. Many small and major factories continue to spew choking fumes into the atomosphere and dump their waste into rivers. China's huge population means a lot of garbage and the system to handle it is straining to dispose all of that rubbish, so some of it goes into the rivers. Lack of water treatment plants mean that raw sewage goes into rivers and lakes, contributing to the already dangerous water pollution levels. China is also straining to supply power to everyone, but their coal-fired plants blacken the sky. The Bo Hai and East China Sea coastlines are very polluted; the rivers dump their polluted water into the sea, poisoning the coastlines and killing marine life. In addition, many of China's inland lakes are dead as they were used as a dumping ground. Although steps are being to lower the amount of pollution, it's a long way from being done. China's ignorance of the environment has led to this mess and it will give rise to many other problems also (like health) if untreated.       What can they do?        The sky is no longer blue and the sun rarely shines clearly through in some major cities. Instead, there's brownish haze all over and a dimmish sun, its light decreased by the smog.

Would you want to live there? Go on google and search 'China Pollution' for more info.

[yochillout]

Just some pictures I found of this tragedy.

China sand storm
This has satellite photos of China with the sand storm and its path of travel.

Attached Thumbnails

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Edited by yochillout, 22 January 2005 - 01:18 PM.

[urban addict 20324]

Oh, thanks! Since the winds on Earth usually travel from west to east, the pollution often blows into the Pacific Ocean and into countries east of China, like Taiwan, Japan, N and S Korea. These countries are suffering also from the pollution that's carried here and have complained to China before to try to stop this.

[satalac]

maybe that's why they're building all of those supertalls, they're trying to see the sun again.

[Aaron]

urban addict 20324, on Jan 22 2005, 01:25 PM, said:

Would you want to live there?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Pollution isn't quite the reason I wouldn't want to live in China.

[urban addict 20324]

Good thing China decided to hold the Olympics in 2008, not 2000. In that way, they could have eight more years to try to clean up the environment. It would be unpleasing to the tourists to see a polluted, hazy, yellow sky during the Olympics. >_<

[urban addict 20324]

I kind of doubt China could restore the environment significantly before the Olympics begin now.

[andrew302]

I have lived in Beijing for a couple of years now and over that period I have noticed a general improvement in the air quality in the city. However, this spring has been hideous. Every day the sky is grey or yellow and I constantly feel the grit in my teeth and eyes. When the wind blows from the north it tends to clear the pollution out of the basin, but unfortunately there are so many construction sites that strong winds create ground level mini-dust storms all over the city. You get used to it after a while (although I have heard long-time Beijingers complaining about the filth this spring) but I am always reminded of how "clean" air can actually be when I go back to North American cities.

The other day we had carpet cleaners come into the office after work hours. I'm not sure what it was they used to clean the carpets, but the stench of dog "business" filled the place the next morning (the building we have offices in also regularly sprays for bugs during office hours without any concern for human safety and I have been regularly assured that since I am much bigger than the bugs the spray is intended to kill I am in no immediate danger). The sky outside that day was a sickly yellow and it was impossible to see across the street, so opening the window was not an option. My colleagues and I had to resort to wearing left over SARS masks for the day.

To the poster who said that it will be impossible to clean Beijing up by 2008, I heartily agree. However, athletes have survived LA and Mexico City.

All that being said, I have grown to love this city. It may be filthy and confusing and at times incredibly frustrating but it has a charm and a pulse and a passion for life that I have never experienced anywhere else.

[Snowguy716]

andrew302, on May 3 2005, 08:47 PM, said:

I have lived in Beijing for a couple of years now and over that period I have noticed a general improvement in the air quality in the city. However, this spring has been hideous. Every day the sky is grey or yellow and I constantly feel the grit in my teeth and eyes. When the wind blows from the north it tends to clear the pollution out of the basin, but unfortunately there are so many construction sites that strong winds create ground level mini-dust storms all over the city. You get used to it after a while (although I have heard long-time Beijingers complaining about the filth this spring) but I am always reminded of how "clean" air can actually be when I go back to North American cities.

The other day we had carpet cleaners come into the office after work hours. I'm not sure what it was they used to clean the carpets, but the stench of dog "business" filled the place the next morning (the building we have offices in also regularly sprays for bugs during office hours without any concern for human safety and I have been regularly assured that since I am much bigger than the bugs the spray is intended to kill I am in no immediate danger). The sky outside that day was a sickly yellow and it was impossible to see across the street, so opening the window was not an option. My colleagues and I had to resort to wearing left over SARS masks for the day.

To the poster who said that it will be impossible to clean Beijing up by 2008, I heartily agree. However, athletes have survived LA and Mexico City.

All that being said, I have grown to love this city. It may be filthy and confusing and at times incredibly frustrating but it has a charm and a pulse and a passion for life that I have never experienced anywhere else.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was in Beijing in May for 5 days, and it left me with mixed feelings.  Each city I visited in Asia had a completely different flavor and culture:  Japan being more friendly and much more subdued, Korea being much more Americanized (but had hte best traditional dancers), and Hong Kong having a true international feel.  Beijing was different.

The people I visited with in Beijing were very friendly and were not ashamed of anything.  They were quite proud of their city.  

As it is, I don't see Beijing as a world class city (then again, I've only been there for 5 days), but I certainly see it as a city booming with opportunity.  The chinese are friendly (although more stand offish than the Japanese or Koreans) and I'm glad they have the opportunity to show off their city in 2008.

In regards to the pollution:  I've never seen smog so thick before.  You can feel the pollution burning your eyes and making your voice hoarse.  The hot weather and traffic noise and smog and dust everywhere makes one feel, well, dirty.

But it was great riding in taxis all over the city for about $2 and getting a delicious, filling meal for less than that.  (And sitting back near a lake and drinking $1.50 beers-expensive for China, cheap for Americans..)

I'll definitely go back.. if not for the culture, for hte food!  

[dpbaker]

Interestingly, soil and sand with a Mongolian origin have been collected in various places around North America. Clearly, material is making it over here from there. If dirt and sand can get carried, rest assured that other forms of pollution are making their way here too.
National Geographic also showcased the pollution problem (maybe those pics came from that article?) and discussed the seriuos health problems that it is causing in the people living in some of these areas.
With everything now being "Made in China", it's no surprise; it must be like one big, country-sized factory!! This can't be without consequences. China is going through their industrial revolution like Europe and the U.S. did, but now we're more aware of the issues with this.  Just my opinion, but I do not believe we will be able to convince the Chinese to change while they are riding this wave of prosperity. This question is, just how far will it go, and what damage will be done to the Chinese population as well as the rest of the world as a result?

[Australian1]

It's Mabye because China
is the worlds poupulous country.
Also, some cars can make
air pollution.

[fromdust]

india hasnt taken over the #1 most populted spot yet?

[dpbaker]

Australian1, on Jan 21 2006, 02:32 PM, said:

It's Mabye because China
is the worlds poupulous country.
Also, some cars can make
air pollution.

Nah..., really?      

[gaoanyu]

Glad to have found a site like this, very happy to meet all of you here
I'd like to have some of my views as the pollution matters in China.
Beijing is certainly not a pleasant city to visit in terms of enviromental issues, it is one of the worst, if not THE worst enviromental problem pruned in all Chinese cities. That said, it is still the MOST popular tourist city in China due to historical reasons. The air in Beijing is polluted due to industrialisation, the outpost of the city is becoming more desert. Chinese goverment has long taken some measures to tuckle the desertisation however, few progresses have yet been made, mainly because, IMHO, that the root of desertisation is very strong in the above Mongolian area. I persoanlly disapprove the weather and the enviroment in Beijing.

Things they have done to try to impove, for examples, are:
1. Plantation (of course)
2. Set emission limits to cars (some European standard)
3. Use clean-energy buses (electric? can't remember)
And we'll see how these measures work out.

Yet the blowing of sands and polluted air may not be such a problem when the Olympics is scheduled. In August, the conditions in Beijing is far more better than that of Spring April and May seasons.

Overwhelmed with pollution problems reported by the media, China in fact has a lot of very clean and clear cities (mostly costal), I will try to post some pics of them later.

[Lance Winslow]

China Working Thru Environmental Issues Now

Recently scientists have been watching the exponential growth of marine life dead zones off the coasts of human civilizations. In China there are dead zones now, which are over 250 kilometers in radius off the coasts of Shanghai and Beijing. Environmental biologists have brought this to the attention of the World and China has decided to take serious action indeed.

China’s answer after getting together with some of the countries top billionaires is to stop using toilet paper in Chinese Owned hotels in Shanghai and Beijing. So when you go to visit do not expect your room to have any toilet paper use your hand to wipe the feces off your butt. This is already done in many parts of the world such as the Middle East. Makes you want to go out to dinner in a Middle Eastern Restaurant doesn’t it?

Back to the subject; so this is going to curb the growth of the dead zone? No, it will save some costs to Chinese hotels. The owners are laughing at the environmental concerns, but fishermen are having to go over 350 to 400 kilometers off shore to get a good catch. If they did catch anything closer you would be a fool to eat it anyway. It appears that no one is taking the over crowding seriously and the infrastructure cannot keep pace with construction and inflow. Basically what this move is saying it; “butt out, don’t tell us what to do” which means that you cannot expect China to create a level playing field with employee rights or environmental controls within the next couple of decades. Meanwhile as planeloads of people fly back and forth to Mainland China, we will end up with their Bird Flu here in the Western World and Europe very soon. Already 160 people have died of bird flu in Western China and an outbreak in South China is working its way into another serious situation.

Meanwhile China’s fresh water supply is causing huge issues in the population and it is so polluted in many places that a fresh glass of water is completely out of the question. With environmental controls like this, the next big epidemic will come from China and those diseases will continue to come to America, Europe and the Middle East with every container load of products and every person who gets off every plane. How serious is this? You tell me. Appeasement isn’t working and their military is growing, is this really free trade or are we just trying to postpone WWIII? think about it.

[City_of_Lakes]

The pollution was not too bad when I was there in the fall of 2004 compared to that of the fall of 1999.  Then again that is partially due to the fact that since the Summer Olympic Games are slated to take place in 2008 the government has forced the closure of a lot of factories from the inner areas of Beijing, which in turn only ended up moving further to the outskirts (plus it was raining more the second time around keeping the dust at bay).  Out of sight out of mind.    

[davidals]

dpbaker, on Dec 17 2005, 11:46 AM, said:

This can't be without consequences. China is going through their industrial revolution like Europe and the U.S. did, but now we're more aware of the issues with this.  Just my opinion, but I do not believe we will be able to convince the Chinese to change while they are riding this wave of prosperity. This question is, just how far will it go, and what damage will be done to the Chinese population as well as the rest of the world as a result?

Look at the American dust bowl - the plains of the US were a lot less densely populated, and the human toll was still devastating - mass relocations (mostly to California), dust storms to the East Coast, respiratory-related illness and death, and in scattered areas the land itself has never recovered.  The pessimist in me thinks that some countries have to learn these lessons the hard way, as in the US I don't know if warnings would have been heeded back in the 1930s (if we'd had the ability to forecast such events then); until those dust storms started hitting the plains were an agricultural gold mine.

[Snowguy716]

MMMM.. that clean Beijing air:



Caused by this:



They are currently adding a 7th or 8th ring freeway onto the city to accomodate for the growth and for the olympics.

And, you're right.  There was no toilet paper in the hotel we stayed at.  It was a university hotel, thus owned by the state.  Funny, I never would have remembered that.. there was a lot of despair for unprepared travellers.  (I didn't know what i was getting myself into, so I brought toilet seat covers and toilet paper travel packs with).