182 replies to this topic

[dubone]

dubone, on Apr 7 2005, 10:52 PM, said:

even now, 485 is counted as a rural project!

The way money is distributed means charlotte gets a small chunk of what they need overall.  the high cost of meeting all the standards for the roads to carry the biggest trucks and last a generation (sort of).  even if the technocrats (the good guys) are completely aware that it won't work right, the budgetary/funding decisions are completely political and the little guys are stuck with what they have. 

http://www.ncdot.org...s/pdf/div10.pdf

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

^see, chief, i read your thread .

Do you have an answer on why 485 (or any projects in Meck county for that matter) are classified as rural?

[ChiefJoJo]

dubone, on May 3 2005, 08:42 PM, said:

^see, chief, i read your thread .

Do you have an answer on why 485 (or any projects in Meck county for that matter) are classified as rural?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

When NCDOT assigned these projects for planning, design, etc., it was some time in the early 80s I think.  At that time, you can bet that all the sections of where 485 is now were then, in fact, rural as designated by the census bureau--which is what determines the project classification (e.g., Rural, Interstate, Urban, etc.).  US Census Bureau classifies urbanized areas as continiguous areas with a population density of at least 1000 persons per square mile.

[SmellyCat]

ChiefJoJo, on May 4 2005, 10:33 AM, said:

When NCDOT assigned these projects for planning, design, etc., it was some time in the early 80s I think.  At that time, you can bet that all the sections of where 485 is now were then, in fact, rural as designated by the census bureau--which is what determines the project classification (e.g., Rural, Interstate, Urban, etc.).  US Census Bureau classifies urbanized areas as continiguous areas with a population density of at least 1000 persons per square mile.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe that's why it has no lighting.  

[dubone]

i can't believe the local leaders changed their tune when the local delegation to the legislature ripped them a new one a few months ago.

McC and the Gang were talking all tough about how they need the state to pay for state responsibilities and stop stiffing charlotte on the funding scheme... but when the delegation came and told them that they were doing a lot already, the local leaders just got redfaced and started kowtowing.

I wish they'd turned around and asked about the tens of millions that charlotte city taxpayers cover in state responsibilities, and the hundreds of millions in transportation needs in this region that can't get built because we subsidize the rest of the state.   I partly blame DOT because their boss, Lyndo, pushed the law for the current funding scheme.  But it is the local delegation's fault for not figuring out how to reverse the error.  

Honestly, I am starting to think that the state should only be responsible for interestates and us highways, and that everything else should be county responsibility.  That way, the populous/rich counties can afford to meet the needs of their citizens and the nonpopulous/poor counties don't waste money, when gravel works just fine for their rural population.

[Raintree21]

Maybe instead of parts of CMS seceding, Charlotte should secede from NC?  

[moonshield]

Quote

Maybe instead of parts of CMS seceding, Charlotte should secede from NC? wink.gif

My sentiments exactly.

[krazeeboi]

Y'all trying to force Charlotte on us? Or truly become "the great state of Mecklenburg"?

Edited by krazeeboi, 05 May 2005 - 02:14 PM.

[dubone]

we'd get a rep and 2 senators.   Then we'd see stuff coming our way.

[eastsider]

Or since Mecklenburg voted democrat last election, we will get no representation like DC.

[moonshield]

no we just need to force our way into power in the state. The rural areas have held power for too long, they are not contributing to the state, we should not contribute to them. The very idea of Fayetteville and Wilmington being ahead of Charlotte in road funding percentage is madness.

[JunktionFET]

In all honesty, Charlotte is not the only city in NC feeling the money squeeze, and in many ways Charlotte is better off than the Triad and the Triangle. After living on both sides of the fence now, it sounds absurd to blame Charlotte's road woes on some kind of Raleigh preference from the DOT.

Instead of being Meck-centric perhaps the urban areas of the state should act together and try to obtain more road funding.

[monsoon]

ChiefJoJo, on May 4 2005, 10:33 AM, said:

When NCDOT assigned these projects for planning, design, etc., it was some time in the early 80s I think.  At that time, you can bet that all the sections of where 485 is now were then, in fact, rural as designated by the census bureau--which is what determines the project classification (e.g., Rural, Interstate, Urban, etc.).  US Census Bureau classifies urbanized areas as continiguous areas with a population density of at least 1000 persons per square mile.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Indeed that was the case and this came directly from the city/county governments that told the State they intended to keep it that way.   Well the local government here can't say no to the developers, especially developers such as the Harris's, and the zoning was changed to allow the current mess to develop down there.

i.e.  485 is overwhelmed in that part of the county not because the State/NCDOT did not design it properly, but because the City & County did not stick to their own planning which the road was designed for.  They told the NCDOT to develop a rurul highway, then  built a bunch of sprawl around it.

[monsoon]

eastsider, on May 5 2005, 04:44 PM, said:

Or since Mecklenburg voted democrat last election, we will get no representation like DC.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That makes no sense since we happen to have a Democratic Governer, the Democrats hold a majority in the Legislature, and the Speaker of the House is from Mecklenburg County.

[dubone]

NorffCarolina, on May 5 2005, 03:24 PM, said:

In all honesty, Charlotte is not the only city in NC feeling the money squeeze, and in many ways Charlotte is better off than the Triad and the Triangle. After living on both sides of the fence now, it sounds absurd to blame Charlotte's road woes on some kind of Raleigh preference from the DOT.

Instead of being Meck-centric perhaps the urban areas of the state should act together and try to obtain more road funding.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i agree.  i think it is a rural vs city issue.  Traditionaly, i think charlotte people think raleigh gets the money they don't deserve, but it is clear with refunds that the dot is redistributing from the cities to the rural divisions that this is something the cities must work toghether on to change the law.

[moonshield]

I don't have so much a problem with Raleigh getting money as I do with cities like Fayettesville getting more road money then Charlotte. (Proposed Budget)

[Raintree21]

Focus shifts to widening I-485's south leg

Momentum began building Thursday to speed up widening Interstate 485's southern leg, even though that could delay completion of the outerbelt's last stretch in northeast Mecklenburg.

A transportation advisory panel unanimously recommended the shift in priorities on Thursday.

Two other boards are to vote on the controversial proposal Monday and May 18.

Members of the advisory panel, called the Technical Coordinating Committee, said they didn't want to delay the northeast segment and hoped the state might transfer road money from other parts of the state to Charlotte.

[monsoon]

I think the Charlotte region needs to do a better job in selling its needs to the NC Legislature.    I don't think it is resentment or anything like that that we don't get more money,  instead I think it is because they really don't understand the problems here as they never come to Charlotte.   Charlotte really does get a lot of money for road building and if you are say a legislator from Elizabeth city, you would really wonder why so much money is sent to Charlotte and not other parts of the state.  (population numbers on a spreadsheet don't effectively tell the story)

I remember when the hurricane Hugo clean up was occuring and people came from all over the state to help with the effort.  NC people that had never been to Charlotte.   They would remark they simply had no idea the traffic and number of people here were so intense.  And that was 15 years ago.  

If you look closely at NC, Charlotte due to its location is kinda isolated from the rest of the state and people rarely have to come here unless they do so on purpose.  We are also hurt by the fact that a portion of the metro is in SC, yet there is almost no representation in the SC Legislature to help the Charlotte region.  I don't think I ever remember anyone from Charlotte bothering to address the Legislature down there.  I think the City and County governments would really serve our needs well if they would attempt to partner with SC more.   Ironically the best interstate in the region is I-77, on the SC side of the line.

[krazeeboi]

You're right about I-77 monsoon. I've always wondered how York County got on the ball first with I-77. The SCDOT has done wonders for that area in the past 2 years.

What exactly could the SC Legislature do to help the Charlotte metro (besides I-77) on the SC side of things?

[Raintree21]

krazeeboi, on May 7 2005, 03:36 PM, said:

What exactly could the SC Legislature do to help the Charlotte metro (besides I-77) on the SC side of things?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Light rail to Rock Hill.

[krazeeboi]

I know the city of Rock Hill is certainly interested, but good luck with the SC Legislature (epitome of anti-urban). I would've attended the meeting they had a few months ago, but I work second shift, even though I probably will not be in the area once it's established. I believe that demonstrates that Rock Hill/York County sees light rail as a viable option in this area. This past week in the Rock Hill Herald (newspaper), a poll was presented with various options for mass transit to and from Charlotte. Among light rail was commuter rail, diesel multiple units, and bus rapid transit. So far in the poll, light rail is winning.