1374 replies to this topic

[wrldcoupe4]

rusthebuss, on Apr 3 2005, 10:06 AM, said:

Democrats just want to give all the money away to the lazy people of the world. That is one of the biggest debts we have in this state and country. Lazy people suck so much money from working people it is ridiculous. And you did make it political with a remark like that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Has Warner done this? And how would Hampton Roads feel a better infrastructure but with toll roads?

[JPN0731]

Ugh no matter who is politically in power in VA the roads are going to be in bad shape that is a fact of life.  I64 has been under construction through Reps and Dems.  I think that the problems plauging VDOT are not Democratic or Republican one, rather they are because of complacent people who know how secure their jobs are no matter how bad they muck up the roads.

Having said that, I still think the most viable solution that we'll have to face up to is that we need tolls to get the roads we need now.  This, coupled with a mix of higher fuel taxes and a portion of the port's fund can make them realistic at $2-3 each way.  I would pay that to get through the tunnels to Hampton or Portsmouth without the eternal "20-30 min delay" (READ: 1-2 hour delay). I pay the $12 toll whenever I got to NY etc because I would rather not risk 64, the mixing bowl, DC and point north of there.  Tolls do not chase away that much business from the ports or NYC would not have the biggest terminals on the East Coast.  

By the way, so what if Richmond get the money and then builds themselves nicer roads than us?  They are a main through route because of them being on I95.  We are on a cul-de-sac here and the only people going through the area are doing so to get to/from the outer banks.  

If we are so upset about this issue, we need to elect people who will battle for the area and not shy away from reality.  They wanted us to vote for an increase in sales tax to pay for a ton of roads that would help the ports and developers first????  C'mon no one voted for that one.  If they asked us to vote on increasing the interest rate or if your landlord (if you rent) wanted to ask the tennants whether or not they want to increase their rent what do you think they will say?  Duh.  They need to get in there and get some funding for these projects even if it means tolls and taxes.

[rusthebuss]

VAGATOR, on Apr 3 2005, 12:03 AM, said:

I find that statistic very hard to believe. Sorry, but Norfolk or Hampton Roads doesn’t have a 5 billion dollar plus advantage on Raleigh and the Research Triangle. If the economy is strong in Hampton Roads, why do the rages in this town so low?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So i guess the federal govt is making a false statement that doesn't make it any more money or anything else. We have alot more people and yes they may have more higher paying jobs but we have huger ship building and ship repair, and huge shipping industry. We have alot things here that no one realizes.

[rusthebuss]

Tolls would just plug up the roads even worse. I don't think tolls are the answer. I understand what you are saying and i know the revenue has to come somewhere but its just going to cause more traffic issues point blank.

[VAGATOR]

The solution for the traffic problems in NOVA and Hampton Roads is a simple case of picking your poison, an increase in sales tax or toll roads. Personally, I see all the new projects in the near future (second midtown tunnel, Greenbelt, Third Crossing, 460 improvements) will be toll roads.

[lammius]

VAGATOR, on Apr 3 2005, 06:53 PM, said:

The solution for the traffic problems in NOVA and Hampton Roads is a simple case of picking your poison, an increase in sales tax or toll roads. Personally, I see all the new projects in the near future (second midtown tunnel, Greenbelt, Third Crossing, 460 improvements) will be toll roads.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I never have and never will support a SALES tax increase that would be used to build highways.  It's such a regressive tax.  IMO the only equitable way to raise highway $ is user fees.  If you drive you pay.  Gas tax, property tax on cars, violation fines, increased DMV fees, tolls, etc.  If ya need highway money, hit up the people who will benefit from the highways--drivers.

[Mike D]

lammius, on Apr 3 2005, 09:13 PM, said:

I never have and never will support a SALES tax increase that would be used to build highways.  It's such a regressive tax.  IMO the only equitable way to raise highway $ is user fees.  If you drive you pay.  Gas tax, property tax on cars, violation fines, increased DMV fees, tolls, etc.  If ya need highway money, hit up the people who will benefit from the highways--drivers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree that user fees are the way to go, such as tolls, gas taxes and strong violation fees - this is what should be used to pay for highway expansion. Personally, I also think HR could use better rail transit. I would think given the geography of the area, rail could really be beneficial to the area. Having only highway crossings between the Peninsula and the South Side will just make the traffic worse. I think a rail bridge should be built too. It could be used by commuter and Amtrak trains.

[lammius]

Mike D, on Apr 4 2005, 09:50 PM, said:

I agree that user fees are the way to go, such as tolls, gas taxes and strong violation fees - this is what should be used to pay for highway expansion. Personally, I also think HR could use better rail transit. I would think given the geography of the area, rail could really be beneficial to the area. Having only highway crossings between the Peninsula and the South Side will just make the traffic worse. I think a rail bridge should be built too. It could be used by commuter and Amtrak trains.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree entirely.  And rail has the added benefit of allowing dense development along corridors.

[rusthebuss]

The problem is that you will still have to have a tunnel to get over there and thats alot of money and will take sooooooo long. I have to cross that tunnel everyday to Hampton. The construction there aka "bottle neck" stuffs that hole and makes it so bad to drive through there.

[lammius]

rusthebuss, on Apr 4 2005, 10:31 PM, said:

The problem is that you will still have to have a tunnel to get over there and thats alot of money and will take sooooooo long. I have to cross that tunnel everyday to Hampton. The construction there aka "bottle neck" stuffs that hole and makes it so bad to drive through there.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The thing with rail tunnels is that one could be built for cheaper than the presently proposed third crossing and have a passenger capacity that is far higher.

New Jersey Transit in cooperation with the Port Authority of NY-NJ is planning a rail tunnel, new station adjacent to Penn Sta., and a rail loop at Secaucus that will cost a total of $5 billion.  Just the tunnel/bridge portion could be built in Hampton Roads for a fraction (less inftrastructure and lower cost down here) and carry 200,000 passengers/day at capacity (based on 2 tracks and 10-car trains on 5 minute headways).  It's just more bang for the buck.  

Yeah it's expensive and takes a long time to construct but the geography of the area provides no easy quick fix.

[rusthebuss]

lammius, on Apr 5 2005, 12:38 AM, said:

The thing with rail tunnels is that one could be built for cheaper than the presently proposed third crossing and have a passenger capacity that is far higher.

New Jersey Transit in cooperation with the Port Authority of NY-NJ is planning a rail tunnel, new station adjacent to Penn Sta., and a rail loop at Secaucus that will cost a total of $5 billion.  Just the tunnel/bridge portion could be built in Hampton Roads for a fraction (less inftrastructure and lower cost down here) and carry 200,000 passengers/day at capacity (based on 2 tracks and 10-car trains on 5 minute headways).  It's just more bang for the buck. 

Yeah it's expensive and takes a long time to construct but the geography of the area provides no easy quick fix.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know what your saying but we can't get cities to agree on anything let alone a rail system that will work together and having to put a rail tunnel across. They are still going to build that 564 tunnel crossing, I think mainly for the rigs for the new marine terminal and I think they were planning on adding the rail with it to Newport News when they build the new crossing. Its suppose to be all private financing and VDOT set a dead line of next winter to have the proposal ready for them to review.

[Mike D]

rusthebuss, on Apr 5 2005, 12:42 AM, said:

I know what your saying but we can't get cities to agree on anything let alone a rail system that will work together and having to put a rail tunnel across. They are still going to build that 564 tunnel crossing, I think mainly for the rigs for the new marine terminal and I think they were planning on adding the rail with it to Newport News when they build the new crossing. Its suppose to be all private financing and VDOT set a dead line of next winter to have the proposal ready for them to review.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It would be the smart thing to do if they add rail to the 564 tunnel - something that should have been done with the Big Dig in Boston to connect North and South Stations, but I digress. Private funding to build a new HR crossing? Sounds like a really innovative solution. I hope it includes rail service.

Having a direct rail link to Norfolk will help the HR area immensely. The good thing about HR is that it lends itself quite well to being developed in a dense pattern that would be conducive to rail travel, with the area being hemmed in by water (you can't pave over the Atlantic Ocean or the Chesapeake Bay!). It would also justify running additional Amtrak service to HR. I was surprised to find out that only two trains per day in each direction run from Newport News. There should be a lot more than two.

Edited by Mike D, 05 April 2005 - 09:05 AM.

[Locos]

I like the idea of a rail crossing connecting the peninsula and the southside and the building of a third crossing but with all of this bickering and beef on how to pay for it we would have been almost if not have way there if we could have decided how to finance either project a couple of years ago!

[lammius]

Rus, I agree that local cooperation is a big obstacle to overcome and is one of the major reasons something like this may never happen.  Even if you get local politicians on board, the state & federal political climate is not favorable for any large scale capital investment in transit.  Unfortunately the political clout of this region isn't strong enough to overcome such opposition.

[rusthebuss]

Yeah instead of us working together they(feds)  see the bickering between all the localities and give the federal funds to some other area that works together. If VaBeach had joined in on the light rail venture as a team when Norfolk submitted the proposal and made the starter rail longer, we would already been in the building process for the light rail right now...... Newport News has really seriously expressed interest in the light rail but its a little more involved attaching it to Norfolk so it wouldn't have impacted the starter track.

[Mike D]

rusthebuss, on Apr 5 2005, 01:31 PM, said:

Yeah instead of us working together they(feds)  see the bickering between all the localities and give the federal funds to some other area that works together. If VaBeach had joined in on the light rail venture as a team when Norfolk submitted the proposal and made the starter rail longer, we would already been in the building process for the light rail right now...... Newport News has really seriously expressed interest in the light rail but its a little more involved attaching it to Norfolk so it wouldn't have impacted the starter track.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That, too, I think is something that seriously hurts the HR region - the fact that all the localities bicker with each other and refuse to cooperate and work together to bring things there. Your example with VA Beach refusing to cooperate with Norfok on the starter light rail line is the perfect example. At least Newport News expressed real interest in a light rail connection to Norfolk, but yeah, that's going to be a lot more difficult to build because it must cross water to get to Norfolk. Then again VA Beach doesn't like to cooperate with the other localities on much of anything, do they? Maybe if the other localities can learn to work together, they can succeed without VA Beach. Maybe.

[rusthebuss]

Yeah VaBeach doesn't want to cooperate at all they made a comment that they didn't want the "Norfolk element" coming over to VaBeach so you tell me what that sounds like. VaBeach is the key to get alot of these projects to work. VaBeach has around 500k people there. Norfolk and VaBeach is where most of the traffic is and where they need the relief in the traffic. They are the two biggest cities in the state. It would make alot of sense to connect downtown Norfolk with VaBeach's towncenter. The path is already there and that is the sad thing. It's a old Norfolk and Southern track there. The track runs all the way to Oceana and it could be extended to the Oceanfront. That would be awesome!!!!!

Edited by rusthebuss, 05 April 2005 - 02:23 PM.

[lammius]

rusthebuss, on Apr 5 2005, 02:21 PM, said:

Yeah VaBeach doesn't want to cooperate at all they made a comment that they didn't want the "Norfolk element" coming over to VaBeach so you tell me what that sounds like. VaBeach is the key to get alot of these projects to work. VaBeach has around 500k people there. Norfolk and VaBeach is where most of the traffic is and where they need the relief in the traffic. They are the two biggest cities in the state. It would make alot of sense to connect downtown Norfolk with VaBeach's towncenter. The path is already there and that is the sad thing. It's a old Norfolk and Southern track there. The track runs all the way to Oceana and it could be extended to the Oceanfront. That would be awesome!!!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Chesapeake was also interested in 1999 but I'm not sure if they still are.

[rusthebuss]

They did a feasability study and it came back a no go for right now. Alot of residents were opposing it as well.

[vdogg]

I was thinking about putting this in the VA. Beach development thread or transportation thread but i think it warrants its own thread for now.

Businesses weighing in on I-264 overpass plans

By MARISA TAYLOR, The Virginian-Pilot
© April 6, 2005 | Last updated 10:53 PM Apr. 5

VIRGINIA BEACH — Some business owners urged the City Council on Tuesday to shelve a proposed overpass that would cross Interstate 264 near Town Center.

The Council is scheduled to decide Tuesday whether to select one of two routes that would expand Constitution Drive from two lanes to four or six lanes and extend it over the highway as an overpass.

One of the proposed routes, “Alternative A,” crosses the interstate and reaches Holland by following close to Edwin Drive.

It would not displace any homes, but it would slice through a portion of the Convergence Center, a 34-acre office park off Bonney Road.


The other option, “Alternative F,” would extend Constitution Drive over the interstate into property west of Edwin Drive before connecting to Independence.

That route would cut through CityView, a 24-acre property off Bonney Road where developers propose a project similar in style to Town Center, with apartments, offices and shops. It would displace 24 Columbus Station townhouses.

Full Story