32 replies to this topic

[snoogit]

metrogrkid, on Mar 24 2005, 07:05 PM, said:

I read that same piece regarding parking in the GR Press Editorials and wanted to SCREAM!!!  Such a mindset is why I often lament when people say, " . . . . can we be sure to include local retailers, architects, etc.".  Fact of the matter is, outside of this UrbanPlanet-Grand Rapids forum, most GR-based "forward-thinking" results in suffocatingly small and oppresively boring ideas - THE HALLMARK OF THE "GOOD OLD DAYS" OF GRAND RAPIDS and the reality that drove and continues to drive our "creative class" of young folks out of here on the first thing smoking.  But back to the parking thing . . . .

That woman obviously has NEVER traveled to a major metro area or if so never got out of her car to experience how a major metro downtown works.  Parking ramps DO NOT grow a world-class downtown.  As a matter of fact, the premier second-tier cities of today (Seattle, Atlanta, Boston, Minneapolis, etc.) increased the housing densities and parallel mass-transit use by gradually curbing the construction of parking ramps as the popularity of the respective downtowns increased.  This effect was possible because, after the initial wave of urban investment that got people excited about the possibilites of these downtowns (where GR is RIGHT NOW), people did not have to be enticed any longer by the presence of "convenient car parking" (i.e. - the densities and urban popularities became such that people were going to live downtown because they wanted to regardless and with parking at that point being inconvenient, mass transit then became viable and attractive).

GR has never ever thought in the mindset of actually guiding and generating demand (for world-class downtown retail, housing, entertainment, etc.) through time-tested urban-planning practices that have created the aforementioned premier second-tier cities - they have always foolishly waited passively for it to randomly occur.  The upcoming METRO CENTER Charrette and project will be this collective body's opportunity to wield this pro-active urban development model for the first time here.  Let parking ramps and oppressive boredom be damned.

-metrogrkid

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I'll pelt random food objects at the planning commission if they decide to put a ramp there.

[GRCentro]

To attract more people, downtown needs more parking ramps?  I don't know what common sense that woman is using, but mine tells me that no one celebrates a city for its blue-ribbon parking structures.  Cities are commended, however, for well-designed mass transit and pedestrian-friendly streets.

We need more reasons to get people out of their cars and on their feet, walking through downtown.  We need small businesses: one-of-kind retail stores, specialty restaurants, a hot-spot entertainment district...  We need street-level action, not more stagnent parking.

Edited by GRCentro, 24 March 2005 - 08:22 PM.

[joeDowntown]

I laughed when I read this. There is a brand new, beautifully built ramp 3 blocks down from the Children's Museum on Monroe Center with 60 minutes free parking and a indoor walkway that takes you right to the street level (and had a $7 max parking fee). If you gave that kind of parking service to someone in a larger city they'd pass out.

People like this need to get out and walk a LITTLE (Studies say it is actually good for you). I also have children and have no problem hiking a couple of blocks to go somewhere. It gives me more time to bore my 4 year old daughter about how cool the architecture is.

Joe

GRCentro, on Mar 24 2005, 10:16 PM, said:

To attract more people, downtown needs more parking ramps?  I don't know what common sense that woman is using, but mine tells me that no one celebrates a city for its blue-ribbon parking structures.  Cities are commended, however, for well-designed mass transit and pedestrian-friendly streets.

We need more reasons to get people out of their cars and on their feet, walking through downtown.  We need small businesses: one-of-kind retail stores, specialty restaurants, a hot-spot entertainment district...  We need street-level action, not more stagnent parking.

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[mgreven]

We'll see how this turns out.
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Quote

Panel looks at 3 firms for City Centre site

GRAND RAPIDS -- A committee of city leaders and downtown property owners has chosen to interview three of the five developers who submitted plans to redevelop the site of the former City Centre parking ramp.

Those being asked for interviews during April are:


The partnership of Rockford Cos. and Design Plus of Grand Rapids, which is proposing a CVS drugstore on the Division and Fulton corner with a five-story condominium building to the west along Fulton and Commerce.   
     
RSC Associates of Chicago and Second Story Properties of Grand Rapids, with a plan that calls for a jazz club, bookstore, pool hall and cafe at the Division/Fulton corner with a 11-story condominium tower on the western end of the site.

Division and Fulton LLC of Cascade Township, an undisclosed group that envisions a larger footprint eight-plus story building with commercial office space, condominiums and ground floor retail space.


The committee will not interview East Grand Rapids businessman James Azzar, who proposed a parking ramp to serve redevelopment plans at two vacant buildings he owns, or Grand Rapids commercial real estate agent Robert Tol, who proposed using the land as a staging area for another condominium tower he is planning and developing it as a mixed-use site later.

"The Tol and Azzar proposals were not complete enough or didn't have the specifics about the redevelopment or were too far off," said Susan Shannon, economic development director for the city.

The interviews will take place at closed meetings of the project review committee.

Mayor George Heartwell, city commissioners Lynn Rabaut and Robert Dean, Parking Commission member Jack Hoffman, Downtown Development Authority member David Cassard and Richard Craig and Joseph Niewiek, who own properties near the lot are on the committee.

Shannon said some form of recommendation should be presented to the City Commission by the end of April.

Despite the decision about who to interview, and the plan to choose a recommended buyer or rank the proposals in order of preference for the City Commission, the public can be excluded from the interviews because no deliberation is taking place, said Dick Wendt, an attorney who represents the city.

The committee, appointed by Shannon, also lacks a quorum of a public body, Wendt said.

"The rationale is that they are nothing more and nothing less than an evaluation team," Wendt said. "They are not going to make a decision, nor are they deliberating toward a decision."

Wendt said the full City Commission will have the chance to interview all of the developers if it wants to or reject any recommendation by the group.

[snoogit]

mgreven, on Mar 25 2005, 10:26 AM, said:

We'll see how this turns out.
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soundsto me like they don't want another parking ramp. This is a good sign.

[joeDowntown]

Good, They knocked out the two crappy proposals. It remains to be seen how the Fulton and Division project does (since they aren't showing their cards). Rockford will stay in it until the end as a gesture of goodwill, but if RSC & Associates has funding in place, I can't imagine them not getting the nod.

Joe

[snoogit]

joeDowntown, on Mar 24 2005, 10:06 PM, said:

I laughed when I read this. There is a brand new, beautifully built ramp 3 blocks down from the Children's Museum on Monroe Center with 60 minutes free parking and a indoor walkway that takes you right to the street level (and had a $7 max parking fee).

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heh man if I knew that, I'd have taken more pictures downtown

I would have spent a little less then an hour and at most two

[GRCentro]

snoogit, on Mar 29 2005, 09:02 PM, said:

heh man if I knew that, I'd have taken more pictures downtown

I would have spent a little less then an hour and at most two

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Haha, yep.  I always manage to find a way to park for free.  

[snoogit]

GRCentro, on Mar 29 2005, 07:57 PM, said:

Haha, yep.  I always manage to find a way to park for free.   

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as it is I parked near the sith street bridge, at the clsest free space I could find.

but if I can get an hour free closer to downtown, im all for it.

[Veloise]

Parking structure needed

As much as developers want to lay claim to the corner of Fulton and Division, it is the wrong course of action to do anything other than construct a new parking structure.

Of course, developers want to build on it in a manner that will make them money. It won't be as profitable to put up a parking lot. But in the long run, a parking structure will be profitable for more people. It will help the merchants and restaurants near it. It will provide more parking for the arena, children's museum, public library and other things within walking distance.

I'm a mom and church librarian. I don't claim to have expertise in urban planning. But, common sense tells me if Grand Rapids wants to attract people downtown, good, safe and ample parking should be a priority.

SARAH ELZINGA/Grandville


Grandville...isn't that the place with that sprawling fancy new mall with circulation roads every which way, surrounded by retention ponds? You can't walk from the Meijer to anyplace else. And isn't that also the place where the high school student got killed trying to walk across the freeway, because there are no sidewalks?

Even moms and church librarians should get out of their cars now and then, and not just to drive to the next parking deck.

Sheesh.

--Veloise
downtown bicycle commuter, yep, all winter

[daniel nudnik]

"it is the wrong course of action to do anything other than construct a new parking structure"

oh, really? what I want to know is who lets these people near a keyboard. yes, grand rapids, drop everything and build a new parking structure - even though one was just demolished on the site.

it's a good thing people like that are a disappearing breed. or at least, a breed that lives increasingly far from the city.

Veloise, on Mar 30 2005, 09:43 AM, said:

Parking structure needed

As much as developers want to lay claim to the corner of Fulton and Division, it is the wrong course of action to do anything other than construct a new parking structure.

Of course, developers want to build on it in a manner that will make them money. It won't be as profitable to put up a parking lot. But in the long run, a parking structure will be profitable for more people. It will help the merchants and restaurants near it. It will provide more parking for the arena, children's museum, public library and other things within walking distance.

I'm a mom and church librarian. I don't claim to have expertise in urban planning. But, common sense tells me if Grand Rapids wants to attract people downtown, good, safe and ample parking should be a priority.

SARAH ELZINGA/Grandville


Grandville...isn't that the place with that sprawling fancy new mall with circulation roads every which way, surrounded by retention ponds? You can't walk from the Meijer to anyplace else. And isn't that also the place where the high school student got killed trying to walk across the freeway, because there are no sidewalks?

Even moms and church librarians should get out of their cars now and then, and not just to drive to the next parking deck.

Sheesh.

--Veloise
downtown bicycle commuter, yep, all winter

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Edited by daniel nudnik, 30 March 2005 - 10:12 AM.

[Rizzo]

Ahh tight, Logan's on this MBEI thing... I didnt know about this org...

[joeDowntown]

Sign up Rizzo. The more the merrier.

Rizzo, on Apr 11 2005, 06:12 AM, said:

Ahh tight, Logan's on this MBEI thing... I didnt know about this org...

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