27 replies to this topic

[Jaden]

Here's a tower, possibly two, that are proposed for St. Paul. There's been some confusion over at TCS and SSP as to if they are two seperate proposals (they do have different addresses) or what......

[Jaden]

How about one more for the Capitol City?

Rival developers vie for downtown Target

But retail/residential complex still faces obstacles in St. Paul

BY TIM NELSON and LAURA YUEN

Pioneer Press

A new Target store, a grocery, a dozen or more movie screens and a boutique hotel are all potential parts of a development being contemplated for the vacant Cleveland Circle in downtown St. Paul.

Those elements are part of one of two proposals submitted to the city in response to a call from Mayor Randy Kelly for ideas for the site, empty since the city moved the historic Armstrong-Quinlan House in 2001 to the foot of Chestnut Street.

The 5-acre site — directly across from the Xcel Energy Center and the RiverCentre convention facility — is considered one of St. Paul's premier development opportunities. But previous plans, including a Minnesota Twins stadium, have repeatedly come to naught, and the success of either new proposal is far from certain, observers say.

Minneapolis developer George Sherman's $110 million proposal has the support of 2nd Ward City Council Member Dave Thune, who represents the area around the site and could have a crucial say in what happens there.

Other council members have not seen details of Sherman's plan or those of a rival $100 million proposal from San Francisco-based City Center Retail Inc. that reportedly is favored by Kelly, who leaves office in early January.

Sherman's plan would have underground parking, a three-story base and a 14-story tower. It could include a bookstore or a grocery and two restaurants on the first floor, a Target store on the second floor, theaters on the top floor and a combination of hotel rooms and condominiums in the tower.

Sherman said it would require some city subsidy, as much as $10 million in tax breaks known as tax-increment financing.

The City Center plan, proposed by developer brothers and Northfield, Minn., natives Sig and Eric Anderson, also calls for a second-floor Target. In their development, the store would be joined by underground parking, ground-level retail and a 14-story residential tower. The Andersons decided against offering a large grocery store, movie theater or hotel in their proposal.

As a result, they said, their project would require less overall public subsidy than the rival proposal.

"While we could pile additional density on the site, we don't think economically that's the most viable way to proceed," said Sig Anderson, who would not specify how large a city subsidy they would seek.

Still, Thune expressed strong interest in the Sherman proposal.

"I'm excited about the larger development, particularly getting a grocery store," he said.

Kelly said Friday he hoped some proposal would come to fruition.

"I plan to continue to work on this important project and have a number of discussions scheduled with key players. We must not squander an opportunity to continue to develop downtown St. Paul."

Target Corp. spokeswoman Paula Thornton-Greear would only describe the Minneapolis-based company as being in "serious discussions with the city" regarding a Target store in what's also known as the "St. Paul Gateway" site. Both developers credit Target's interest for renewing efforts to move forward with Cleveland Circle proposals.

The development would be a huge boost to downtown St. Paul. Once home to several department stores, two bookstores, a variety of clothing, shoe and boutique outlets, the central business district has been withering for more than a decade in terms of retail business.

"There are some other hopeful signs here, like (the recent opening of) Heimie's Haberdashery," said Larry Englund board chairman of the CapitolRiver Council, the community council for downtown. He lives within blocks of the site.

"Downtown could certainly use a Target," he said. "And I would certainly see something happening there. It has been put off and put off and put off."

Although he hasn't seen the current Cleveland Circle proposals, he said the project shouldn't be rushed, either.

"I think it could use some mixed-use development, but I don't think it needs a Block E," Englund said, referring to the Hennepin Avenue entertainment complex in Minneapolis.

His skepticism isn't without reason, either: St. Paul has dreamed big and ended up with little in downtown before.

In 1996, Koll Real Estate proposed a $43 million makeover for the World Trade Center and Town Square that would have put in 13 movie screens, tony restaurants, a "high-density video" display above Wabasha Street and other amenities. The city eventually doubled the size of a nearby parking ramp, but the private development it was to have served never materialized.

A big Cleveland Circle project also likely would compete with another blockbuster St. Paul development, the Bridges complex proposed by developer Jerry Trooien for the West Side riverfront across from downtown.

He has suggested he might seek as much as $100 million in tax-increment financing, which could make the city balk at other such subsidies.

Boosters also have pushed for a downtown Target at the vacant Wabasha Court site, but that plan seems to have been abandoned altogether. Target recently closed on the purchase of the Four Points Sheraton in the city's Midway district, reportedly with an eye toward building a SuperTarget to replace an existing adjacent Target store.

There are, as well, some pressing questions about the Cleveland Circle site itself.

Sherman said the project appears to be on hold while the city discusses the "economic realities" of two expensive sticking points: adequate parking and a possible skyway to the Xcel Center for Minnesota Wild fans and other pedestrians.

Target prefers to have about 300 to 400 spaces, Sherman said. He had heard that the city originally was hoping to incorporate that need on the back half of the site, which would have a bus-layover facility topped by a 600-space public parking ramp. But the city would want to clear out the parking for Wild hockey game nights — an arrangement not likely to satisfy Target's needs, Sherman said.

"I don't think the city has a good solution yet," Sherman said. "Maybe those are costs that will make it not work for the city."

But with or without a Target, research shows that the rest of the project would work at that location, Sherman said.

"If you would put any of these components anywhere, this is where you would put it," he said. "This is where something of this excitement level should be located."

The bus-layover facility is considered a key part of transit improvements needed for the anticipated arrival of light and commuter rail that would serve a revived Union Depot in Lowertown.

That $24 million bus project, which includes construction of the center and the extension of Smith Avenue, is on hold, said Martin Schieckel, a project manager in the city's Planning and Economic Development Department. There is no expiration date for federal transit funds, he said, but "there's a cost to waiting."

City elections this month also threw some other unknowns into the mix: The outgoing mayor has only 45 days left in office, an extremely tight timeline for accomplishing what would be the biggest single project of his time in office.

Bob Hume, spokesman for Mayor-elect Chris Coleman, said the incoming mayor hasn't seen the details of the project and would want to review them more fully before commenting.

Coleman also expressed support during the campaign for a proposed "living wage" ordinance that would require any projects with city subsidy to pay employees annual wages of at least 130 percent of federal poverty guidelines.

Coleman's supporters said they were watching the Cleveland Circle development with great interest and hoped that a new living wage ordinance would apply to the project.

"If there is $9 (million) to $10 million in (tax-increment financing) money, it seems like there should be living wage jobs there," said Ryan Greenwood, executive director of Progressive Minnesota, a liberal political action group that aided Coleman's mayoral bid and has been pushing for a living wage ordinance in both St. Paul and Minneapolis.

Opponents say such an ordinance would thwart efforts by the city to attract new business. The St. Paul Area Chamber of Commerce hosted a meeting to discuss the ordinance on Friday.

Unknown, as well, is what other city officials would like to see on Cleveland Circle. Most members of the City Council — including Housing and Redevelopment Authority Chairman Jay Benanav — say the Kelly administration hasn't shared details of either proposal and that they don't know which they might prefer.

Council Member Dan Bostrom said he had some plans of his own for the area, as well: He would like to see any project incorporate a new hotel for the city's convention center and include pedestrian connections farther down West Seventh Street and to the United Hospital complex.

"Whatever it is, I wonder if it isn't big enough," Bostrom said.

Supporters, though, say that whatever the obstacles are, this may be St. Paul's last chance to overcome them. When U.S. Sen. Norm Coleman was mayor, he sought proposals to develop the site and collected two, including a team led by Ryan Cos. that included Sherman.

But when Kelly took office, he took action on neither plan. If Chris Coleman's administration decides to put out yet another request for bids, "You probably won't see me a third time," Sherman said. "How many times do you want to get asked to the dance and not get to dance?"

[nickmgray]

Theatre, Hotel, Book Store, across frmo the stadium...

Kinda sounds familiar
I hope it does not turn into "Block E St. Paul"  It's nice to have all these amenities, but spread them out over a few city blocks so that it doesnt just become a place to congregate!

The site could hold so much more.  Add on another 40 floor condo tower and it might be a little more appealing.

Edited by nickmgray, 21 November 2005 - 04:34 PM.

[aTorridGustOfSun]

nickmgray, on Sep 5 2005, 09:58 PM, said:

With all the development going on in MInneapolis and St. Paul, I find it a little disappointing that St. Paul approved the current riverfront projects that are being contructed or that have just been completed.  I believe the last thing that the city needed was more townhomes and lowrise apartment buildings.

St. Paul has a great opportunity to really build up it's riverfront, but missed it's only opportunity.  It'll be half a century till they get a chance to tear it down and do it over.  The city have no more room in its downtown core left to grow now and is going to have to expand by tearing up occupied housing blocks to the south.

I would have to disagree.  I think that it is great that St Paul is getting people to live close to downtown -- it will result in an upswing.  Many retail developments that were built in the 1980s (such as Galtier Plaza) may have a second shot now that there is more critical mass downtown.

As far as the city not having any room to grow, I still see plenty of spaces where new buildings could be constructed (and onlder ones desructed), especially along Jackson Street.

[Jaden]

They are flying under the radar with some pretty impressive projects of their own. Couple of 20+ story condos being pieced together.

Nobody really knows about it because of the madness ging on in Minneapolis, but Paulie is doing well too.

[southernyank]

You gotta love that Target.

[mnpulse]

It's great to see St. Paul getting into the frey!

[IluvMpls]

Good for ST. Paul...but Its just hard for me to get excited about it...I'm so into Minneapolis...