Allen Plaza is slowly being revealed as much more than a collection of three or four office towers. We are learning that what Barry and Post have planned there will be a very dense, very urban neighborhood and will have a HUGE impact on the heart of the city.

An article in ULI detailed whats planned for Allen Plaza
- 2 million sf of office
- 2 hotels (500 total rooms)
- 2,500 - 3,000 residential units (in over a dozen high-rises)
- 200,000 sf of retail

I think it deserves its own thread as we follow its progress.

Webcam



30 Allen Plaza (completed)


55 Allen Plaza (under construction)


45 Allen Plaza (under construction)


50 Allen Plaza (proposed)

Now details on the residential planned for Allen Plaza are beginning to emerge

The following description was posted by another forumer

"The Downtown Development Review Committee reviewed the first phase of Post Allen Plaza for the block bounded by West Peachtree Place, COP Drive, Simpson and Williams Street on Friday. I must confess that I was quite impressed,

The project is on a very tight site, but fortunately they hired a quality architecture firm - Cooper Carry that understands urbanism. As such, the plan relates well to the street on all block faces with first floor retail (that even steps down the hill), doors, attractive loading docks, a quality streetscape and new on-street parking.

The program includes a 202 room hotel, 175 condos, 350+/- apartments and 30,000 sf of retail and around 900 parking spaces (including public spaces).

The building is a tower on a podium typolgy. On top of the base is an "L" shaped tower that sets back slightly from the base. The long side of the "L" is parallel to Simpson Street. The tower is designed to look like two towers. The long leg of the "L" is a glass and precast "stone" tower rising 42 floors (450 feet +/-) above COP Drive, while the lower 19 (?) floor short leg is all glass. It is truly elegant; traditional yet with a contemporary flair.

The condos occupy the top floors of the long leg of the "L." Below them is the hotel. The short leg of the "L" is the apartment tower.

The best thing about this project is that, unlike every Novare project, the podium is NOT parking, so there are actually living units or hotel rooms facing the street on the base along COP Drive, Williams Street, Simpson Street and half of West Peachtree. The parking is underground and internal to the block, other than a small portion along West Peachtree Place. On said facade, the garage facade is no different from the rest of the building.

They plan to break ground in April on this block, and will be coming in soon for approval of more housing and retail on the block to the east. They also are developing plans for the other half of the Museum Tower block, as well as several other area blocks. "

I just rode by this site tonite (I'm in Atlanta for the weekend) and I'm impressed with the progress, as well as that of the Centennial Twelve project not too far from it. I didn't realize the Southern Power building was a part of the Allen Plaza project. Can't wait to see how this project will shape up!

^ Southern Power was their first tenant, though Southern Power had anchored a tower just a few blocks from their current home. But of course - people like new offices, if they didn't their wouldn't be a need for at least a quarter of Atlanta's skyscrapers.

^I believe it. Didn't 1180 Peachtree's tenants all relocate from existing towers that were perfectly OK?

krazeeboi, on Oct 15 2006, 03:48 PM, said:

Yeah, 191 Peachtree, which was arguably the city's premier office tower and is about twice the size of 1180 Peachtree, was occupied by two very large law firms and Wachovia Bank. Their relocation to Midtown was a tremendous boost to Midtown, but an equally serious blow to Downtown.

Post @ Allen Plaza

It's great to see things shaping up down there like they have. So many good building plans. I can't wait to see them once they're built!

Andrea, on Oct 15 2006, 03:36 PM, said:

So will Allen Plaza have more new tenants than "shuffling" tenants?

krazeeboi, on Oct 19 2006, 04:37 AM, said:

It's a trickle down thing. The top businesses in the city will always have the nicest and news buildings. The old buildings they left behind will be filled in by other less important/successful businesses. Hopefully that means some of those companies that rent from anonymous business parks in the suburbs will jump at a chance to locate intown with a lower rent than use to be possible.

But really, unless a new business suddenly comes into being, it's all shuffling, it's just a matter of how big of an area do you look at before you no longer consider it a shuffle but rather new business. Obviously someone relocating an office from Chicago wouldn't be considered shuffling on an Atlanta scale but it would be from a national scale. But what about a company from the Perimeter area or Woodstock? Is that shuffling or new business?

There is also some space taken up by organizations needing more space. I think that's the case with the Amercian Cancer Society.

There was an interesting article in the Daily Report the other day about why law firms decide to locate inside or outside the Perimeter. A number of factors were considered, and interestingly enough cost didn't seem to be that high on the list, since suburban rents aren't really that much different. It seemed to me they were saying that the biggest consideration was convenience, not only for laywers but for staff as well.

Another issue they mentioned was prestige. It used to be that the city's most prestigious firms *had* to be near Five Points -- even Peachtree Center was considered too far north. (Y'all may have seen the comment I posted some time ago by the senior partner in a law firm who was told his firm would go out of business if they ventured as "far out" as Peachtree Center). In the past 15-20 years, the epicenter for the largest firms has shifted to Midtown, which has accounted for a large part of the office growth there.

However, the largest firms still represent a relatively small percentage of the legal industry, and there are a lot of people who are satisfied with going elsewhere. Buckhead has a lot of mid-sized firms, as do the Perimeter and Galleria areas.

I think it would help the downtown office market if there was more affordable housing nearby, including neighborhoods where people felt good about raising children. The big dogs will probably continue to live in Buckhead, but it takes a huge staff to keep these businesses going.

Is it just me, or is Atlanta starting to develop an architectural style all its own, which really emphasizes glass (the Allen Plaza buildings, 1180 Peachtree, etc.)?

krazeeboi, on Oct 19 2006, 04:58 PM, said:

Well, we've had a lot of glass buildings in Atlanta for a long time -- this one goes back about 35 years. But I think they are everywhere.

I actually mean glass that is more or less transparent. I'm aware of the older buildings that emphasize glass, but the glass in those buildings tend to be more dark and opaque. I think maybe it's because I'm seeing the big, wide, transparent panes that are prevalent in 1180 Peachtree and the Southern Power building, and possibly the other Allen Plaza buildings (the W seems like it will have the same style). Charlotte has an abundance of modern architecture, but the buildings don't seem to emphasize the glass as much as the newer buildings I've seen in Atlanta. The condo towers popping up seem to do that though.

Andrea, on Oct 19 2006, 12:07 PM, said:

It sounds like the article is pretty accurate. Many people make the mistake of thinking "LA Law" when they think of lawyers. While the large firms get all of the attention in the public eye, the fact of the matter is that they make up only a small percentage of the overall population of attorneys. Though I'm sure they wouldn't want to hear this, law firms are like hair salons... they need to be near their clients or they won't get much business. Now, you have a few superstar stylists that change hundreds of dollars for a haircut and pull in business from all over the metro but for the most part, it is Great Clips, SuperCuts, etc who get 95% of the business. Most of what attorneys do isn't fighting high profile cases in court, it's boring mundane things like handing wills, writing up lease agreements, real estate closings for tract homes, etc. A person in Cumming isn't going to travel downtown/midtown for that. They're going to go to the guy down the street. Same with a real estate developer in Gwinnett that needs to file papers in Lawrenceville at the county courthouse. He's going to go with the local lawyer. Now, a huge company like Home Depot or UPS, they're going to travel intown to the high prices, high skilled attorneys but there are very few Home Depots but millions of Bob and Sue Smiths looking for a nearby and low cost divorice attorney.

It does take large staffs to keep the big firms going but they tend to pay very well and have great benefits. The average suburbanite has shown time and time again that it's all about the money so the big firms don't have to recruite staff from intown, they can pull from all over the metro because of the great compensation offered. The partners of these firms aren't going to increase their own commute to make things easier on the staff when the staff are already getting money showered all over them. Once you make it to a certain income level, each dollar becomes less and less important while improving the quality of life becomes more important. Don't expect to see many medium or any large sized firms move further out than a couple of miles from the perimeter. I have plenty of coworkers that have horrible commutes and they talk about how wonderful it would be to work near home but they never switch jobs. There are plenty of jobs out there close to their homes but they still choose to come intown. Why? Because they can't get compensation anywhere near what they're getting at a big intown law firm.

Is the Post development in Allen Plaza going to be a rental or purchase development. I really think that a nice highrise rental development in that area is overdue. It would give people a little squimish about intown living a chance to sample the lifestyle. If they like it, they can purchase one of the many condos either for sale or under construction in the area.

Lady Celeste, on Oct 21 2006, 11:26 PM, said:

I think the smaller tower is going to be apartments while the larger tower will be a mix of condos and hotel space.

That's good to know because the center city seems to have a low amount of quality rental unit.l

The rental supply should make a rebound. For the past couple of years with interest rates so low, most people have chosen to buy instead of rent. Since this happened to coincide with the intown residential boom, you got mostly condos instead of apartments. Plus there were lots of condo conversions since the owners of the complexes were having trouble renting the units, conversion allowed them to cash out.

As rates go back up, more people who want to live in the city will decide to rent and that will create the required demand. It's probably a good thing for it to happen soon because many of these condo developments are experiencing significant friction between those in owner-occupied units and those that are being rented out. New apartments will hopefully take some of the rental demand out of the condo buildings and refocus it into the rental buildings.

How is the prices of condo in downtown Atlanta? I know houses are cheap up there in the suburb.

sunshine, on Oct 25 2006, 07:36 AM, said:

I would not call the housing prices in Atlanta cheap. What I do know, having worked in the industry, is that metro Atlanta (like it's counterparts metro Dallas and metro Houston) have not suffered from the overinflation of housing prices. In these very large metros housing has appreciated about 6 to 7% yearly. This is remarkable considering that all three are metros of 5 million or more. This has kept the cost of living down. This pricing restraint has also facilitated these three metros high growth rates (numerically speaking).
Even condos ITP have shown great restraint. Many who have lived in the south for years will complain about to prices because to many of us they seem higher than normal. To the northerners and westerners moving here they are a bargin. I think one can find condo pricing very varied here in Atlanta...especially in the city. You can find a nice condo starting in the 190's at Atlantic Station all the way up to a $12,000,000 7500 sq ft penthouse currently for sale in Buckhead's 2500 Peachtree St tower.

All in all, I would not call the housing here cheap....more like accurately priced. Especially when kept in prespective. Maybe even....more bang for your buck. Some would even say...considering all the amenties (arts, sports, shopping, business, entertainment)....you are getting a steal. I think you get the picture.

Allen Plaza website did a rare update of the website which was to add the rendering of the W with a view of the north side.

Like most renderings, the ones of the W are taking quite a few artistic liberties. For one, the buildings will not glow like that. This is a building in which people are going to sleep. You can expect that a large number of the rooms at any given time will have closed curtains, lights turned off, or lights of much lower illuminating levels than what you see here. Plaza Midtown for example is not easy to pick out of the skyline at night unless you are close to it. Residential buildings in general do not have large amount of exterior illumination because no one wants a spotlight shining in through their window when they are trying to sleep. Also large amounts of exterior illumination degrades the quality of the skyline view because the building lights cause ones pupils to get smaller which reduces the amount of light coming in from the skyline.

As far as the blue band up the side of the building goes, it is hard to tell just how much, if any, of it will be actually illuminated. It looks to be to be merely glass that is of a different color than the adjacent glass.

They also omit the concrete wall that seperates the sidewalk next to Spring Street from the ramps to the connector. The walk through that area is somewhat uncomfortable because the wall is too close to the side walk and gives a feeling of being trapped. Because of the large amount of foot traffic in the stretch of Spring from the homeless at the nearby Peachtree-Pine shelter, feeling trapped is that much worse. Unfortunately the guys from Peachtree-Pine tend to be the most aggressive of the homeless population. It is unlikely that there is going to be a lot of foot traffic up Spring Street to Midtown from people living or staying at the W. The fact that once you make it over the connector all you have greeting you is blocks of anti-pedestrian facades and parking decks doesn't help any. The only good thing in that stretch is Baltimore Row but because it is gated and off to the side, it doesn't help any. The backside of Twelve facing Spring isn't going to do much for the pedestrian experience either.

Don't get me wrong, I'm pretty happy with what is being built. It is great that so much of the parking is underground instead of creating a dead pedestal a story above the ground.

I'm sure everyone has seen somewhere the article in the ABC about Allen Plaza. What strikes me is that 50 Allen Plaza (potentially 48 stories) overlooking the Downtown Connecter (reportedly 450,000 cars past that location daily) would have naming rights. Talk about adverstisement to the max. Atlanta recieves alot of drive throughs from out of towners because of the convergence of I75/I85. I wonder could some F500 company be induced to relocated downtown (from either metro Atlanta or nationwide) to 50 Allen Plaza. Okay, I'm dreaming but it would be nice.

I think Allen Plaza is going to be a wonderful addition to the city as far as retail, and a nice addition also to the skyline.

kennethdisraili, on Jun 13 2007, 04:38 PM, said:

Atlrvr is a part of the staff here at UP and has the authority to do so if nothing else than by my permission. I suggest you leave out the questions to the staff here at UP and stick to the forum topics. We strive for high quality conversation here on UrbanPlanet.org and non-sense off-topic discussion ads nothing but unreadability to the threads for other members and guests.

Under your illusion that saying something hasn't happened isn't idle chit-chat then I could make posts every day for eternity that the world hasn't ended and that would be ok? I'm sure when a press release has been giving that it will be posted, but regardless it adds nothing to the topic. No staff member deletes a post like this with knife in hand for a particular user but does so only to clean up the thread to make it more readable and to the point for other members and the hundreds of thousands of guests that peruse these forums each month.

For you in particular, posts like this: "I know!!!!, I told you so." add absolutely nothing to these forums and if you disagree there are other forums on the net where this is allowed. We choose to keep a higher standard by not having posts like this on our forums and it is your choice to abide by those standards or go elsewhere.

kennethdisraili, on Jun 13 2007, 04:38 PM, said:

If I recall correctly, Atlrvr used to live here in the South until recently, so he has a bit of an interest in this area. He's been around here in the Atlanta forum a few times before.

But basically, it is the moderator's job to maintain the forum. In other words, keep it free of anything that goes against the rules, and it doesn't really matter where they live.

For more info, I refer you to Neo's post above.

The most interesting aspect to Allen Plaza so far is the new 28-story W Hotel and Residences tower. The building is going to have a heliport on top of the tower. Is that not cool or what. So just think, you can land in your private jet at Dekalb-Peachtree or Charlie Brown Airport, then get on a helicopter and fly downtown to the W Tower, land on the roof, then just simply get off, get on the elevator and go down to your floor and your home or in your hotel room. That is just so awesome!!!!!!!

A bit over excessive and a waste of fuel, but still cool nonetheless!

DaAchiever, on Jun 21 2007, 04:15 AM, said:

I totally agree with you DaAchiever on this. It is cool having the heliport on the roof of the W, but how often do you think they would actually use it, I just feel it wouldn't be that often, but the architecture is really good in my opinion.

Sorry about the blank post I seemed to be having tech problems with my controls.

Anyway does anyone have any lattest updates on the Allen Plaza complex?

W Hotel

Update 4-3-08

Gosh I hope those solid black window panes in the Westin are only temporary while they order mirrored glass. Those look awful.

What a great new addition to the skyline. That view from the Connector was always ripe for some additional buildings. It never showed Atlanta to its fullest with the Merchandise Mart and some other low buildings in prime view. This makes it look much more like the city it actually is.