[Miesian Corners]

DCMetroRaleigh, on Jan 13 2006, 10:12 PM, said:

Although I grew up in North Carolina, I definitely don't think of my self as a Southerner.

You're from Raleigh, of course you're not a Southerner.

[NcSc74]

It is hard sometimes to define the state. My group of friends are mostly from the south. However when the subject comes up I say I am from the south and they say where and I say North Carolina. Well the general response is North Carolina isn't south. Or they say it is pseudo south. Also I have a co-workers from Charlotte and one from Fayetteville and both have just a slight southern accent as myself. A lot of times it is hard to pick up. I think NC is in a shift and is looking for its identity.

Although I can agree with the mid-atlantic shift I am proud of my southerness. I don't know what is so bad about. We have some of the best economies, places to live, higher education, quality of life and the list goes on and on. So our cities lag behind in urban feel. In time they will mature and will manage to keep the southern charm that make them so attractive.

[teshadoh]

Miesian Corners, on Jan 14 2006, 01:22 PM, said:

You're from Raleigh, of course you're not a Southerner.

Great & true answer - for any suburbanite it's the truth. The South is rooted in it's rural environment, but that is wrongly assumed as the most 'southern' areas, most inner city locations are deeply rooted in their southern heritage. Remember, whites aren't the only southern people - which is either a wrong assumption or a racist view stereotyped by either white southerners or northeasterners who don't understand the south.

Charlotte is a southern city as is Atlanta & most likely whatever part of Raleigh that isn't in the research triangle. The suburbs aren't anything - which for most sunbelt cities is the overwhelming majority of what is considered the city. By that viewpoint - in a suburbanite's world view, everything looks the same, the suburb represents the rural areas & the urban areas as well. By the fact that NC is full of so many sunbelt cities & their suburbs, I'm sure for those suburbanites it would appear that the state is more similar to 'NoVa', suburban DC, than SC. This is the case for so many that live in Atlanta, that incorrectly view the city as an oddity in the south. Where I live in Atlanta, it isn't that different from Spartanburg - milltowns & BBQ joints. Only difference our shotgun shacks& millhouses are worth $200k & the company store has been replaced by a Starbucks.

So - excuse my diatribe - get over it NC'ers. Either you're a yankee or a self hating southerner if you don't think NC is southern but rather a generic Abercrombie & Fitch 'Mid Atlantic'. If you don't eat fresh crabcakes - you're not Mid Atlantic.

This post has been edited by teshadoh: 17 January 2006 - 11:39 AM

[archiham04]

Eastwestrob, on Jan 12 2006, 05:24 PM, said:

After moving back here from Phoenix and California...There is a sweet tea line everywhere. The difference is it is not brought to you sweet out there...but everyone sure sweetens it up once in hand

The sweet tea line is where you are stopped being asked to distinguish between tea and sweet tea. Above the line, "tea" is unsweetend tea, below "tea" is sweet tea. In my experience, some where above danville VA is where they start serving tea as unsweetened.

[Dukeis#1]

teshadoh, on Jan 10 2006, 09:17 AM, said:

If there is any 'anti-Dixie' influence it would be Appalachia, which historically has been an isolated sub-region of the south. Not only having largely not supported the south during the Civil War, it is in many ways culturally distinct from the majority of the south, or 'dixie'. Foothills cities such as Charlotte, Knoxville & Greenville have been home to many ex-Apalachians.

Have to disagree with you a little bit...While it's true most of the area didn't really "pick a side" during the war, here in the northwestern Carolina mountains most of the locals would be boiling if you identified them as anything but Southerners. It's obviously not deep/full blown accent south, but the people just feel they are part of Dixie.

There seems to be a generalized view that west Carolina has a strong progressive attitude, but in reality, that couldn't be further from the truth. Outside of Asheville, very little has changed over the last few decades. I know because I've been here my entire life. (proud of it too)

This post has been edited by Dukeis#1: 17 January 2006 - 07:24 PM

[krazeeboi]

NcSc74, on Jan 14 2006, 06:29 PM, said:

It is hard sometimes to define the state. My group of friends are mostly from the south. However when the subject comes up I say I am from the south and they say where and I say North Carolina. Well the general response is North Carolina isn't south.

Where in the South were THOSE jokers from? Somebody skipped way too many geography lessons.

I don't see what's so appealing about identifying as "mid-Atlantic" as opposed to "Southern." The designation "Southern" isn't just a geographical term, but it also has cultural and societal connotations--some good, some not so good, and some in the midst of changing. In contrast, what cultural and societal connotations does the designation "mid-Atlantic" carry?

At any rate, Charlotte is still Dixie.

[monsoon]

Haha, I just remembered the WWE (or whatever they are calling themselves now) has some roots in Charlotte when it bought the WCW. The WCW used to be based in CLT where it was known as Mid-Atlantic Championship Wrestling.

[teshadoh]

Dukeis#1, on Jan 17 2006, 08:20 PM, said:

Have to disagree with you a little bit...While it's true most of the area didn't really "pick a side" during the war, here in the northwestern Carolina mountains most of the locals would be boiling if you identified them as anything but Southerners. It's obviously not deep/full blown accent south, but the people just feel they are part of Dixie.

There seems to be a generalized view that west Carolina has a strong progressive attitude, but in reality, that couldn't be further from the truth. Outside of Asheville, very little has changed over the last few decades. I know because I've been here my entire life. (proud of it too)

Well - I did note that western NC wasn't progressive, just a bit different than other parts of the south. Your point is absolutely true - there isn't much to disagree except what my intent was. 'Dixie' is an oddball term, it can mean all of the south or it can mean the 'Deep South' (MS, AL, GA). But I see the misunderstanding - I did make an assumption that 'Dixie' did not equal 'South'. Nonetheless, I think we're in agreement... I think

[teshadoh]

monsoon, on Jan 17 2006, 10:24 PM, said:

Haha, I just remembered the WWE (or whatever they are calling themselves now) has some roots in Charlotte when it bought the WCW. The WCW used to be based in CLT where it was known as Mid-Atlantic Championship Wrestling.

Where did that come from?

Ah, I see - but wrestling is supported in all parts of the country, & even in odd places like Italy where it is huge now. But that's worthy of a new thread - Ricky Steamboat & Wahoo McDaniel were my favorites.

[monsoon]

teshadoh, on Jan 17 2006, 10:29 PM, said:

Where did that come from?

LOL, well they didn't call themselves Mid-South Championship Wrestling. That was in Atlanta.

It probably is worth another thread.

[teshadoh]

^ I see - but I bet 'Mid Atlantic' included only Virginia & Maryland I bet, as well as South Carolina. Regarding 'sub-southern' cultural influences, I've always thought the colonial states as being distinct from the deep south states, this would also include coastal Georgia - just barely. But as Maryland has become a New Jersey - like state, mostly suburban & northern Virginia is a massive suburb of Washington - the concept of 'Mid Atlantic' has changed.

Mid Atlantic used to be like saying southern Atlantic, it was just the east half of the south. Now I do see the where the thought process has gone, as MD & northern VA have been annexed into 'the north' somehow that Mid Atlantic tag is being used as some useless example of 'sophistication'. But of course all yankees are sophisticated, right?

But whatever, a word is just a word - sure Charlotte is a Mid-Atlantic city, but I still consider the Mid-Atlantic to be in the south

[teshadoh]

Actually - if I can clarify something, which may explain my confusion: when we are reffering to 'Dixie', do we mean the 'Deep South' or the 'South' in general? That might make my view simpler:

a) Yes - Charlotte is DEFINITELY in the south
b) No - Charlotte is not in the 'Deep South'

Or does that confound things further?

[norm21499]

Louisiana, Alabama, Mississippi, is what I consider to be "deep south" states, more culturally than anything, those are the states where the deep south culture is alive. I also consider the Appalachian Mountains to have the deep south culture as well.

[DCMetroRaleigh]

Not to bash anyone, but who the hell still uses the word "Yankee" to refer to non-southerners? That just sounds so backward.

[monsoon]

As long as it isn't an offensive term, I don't think that we should judge people by the words they use as I find it boring when everyone sounds as if they belong on a newscast. Yankee, to my knowledge is not an offensive word though it is generally used to denote an "outsider" if they are a transplant from the North. It is similar to the Japanese use of the word Gaijin. One of the great things about being in this region is the very colorful language that can be found here. (of course that is disappearing too because some people attach a stigma to it)

I will point out the British use Yankee in a slightly different way to describe Americans in general. These days is often shortened to Yank. I would not call them backwards either.

[teshadoh]

DCMetroRaleigh, on Jan 18 2006, 07:55 PM, said:

Not to bash anyone, but who the hell still uses the word "Yankee" to refer to non-southerners? That just sounds so backward.

Oh thats ok, I don't mind - I sometimes use 'yankee' when I'm being humerous, if not ironic. I typically don't acknowledge the difference between a 'southerner' or a 'northerner'. Nonetheless, it doesn't have any specific negative connotations, but the ideal 'Yankee' is more likely from Boston than New York City - it has roots more in New England (such as 'The Yankee Workshop'). But true - New York City is home to the baseball team 'Yankees'. But I'm just joking anyways, this appears to be in all fun - considering we're actually debating if Charlotte is southern or not

But define 'backward', regional distinctions are common place & using the term 'yankee' is describing a specific region. If 'yankee' is backwards to use as a regional describer, then 'redneck' for describing the south is too - which is understood. But the Northeast should be so lucky to have such a rich & colorful nickname to describe themself - the term 'yankee' is the most historically patriotic term in the US.

[dubone]

"Yankee" was first used as a derogatory term for dutch New Yorkers when the british took over. Jan Kees is a common dutch name.

I think it became patriotic because the yankees were anti british during the Revolutionary War. Like all patriotic terms that were originally negative and became positive during time of war, they eventually became names for sports teams. Locally, "Tar Heels" and "Hornets" were derrogatory terms that locals converted to positive meaning during war time, and they eventually became sports names.

[UptownGrrl]

Wikipedia - Dixie

Wikipedia - Yankee

[flotown]

I was born in NJ but moved to SC 28 + years ago as a kid. I never picked up a southern accent and am called a Yankee all the time (actually, a "damn Yankee"). It's weird in a sense the regionalism still seen here. Go to NY and yell "the north sucks", to Chicago and yell "the midwest sucks", or to LA and yell "the west sucks", and natives will likely laugh at you or agree with you. Stand on a corner in Charlotte and yell "the south sucks" and natives would get as offended and angry as if you insulted their mother. It's kind of funny.

So what is the difference between a Yankee and a Damn Yankee? I recently had this explained to me. A Yankee is a northerner who visits and leaves. A "damn" Yankee is one who visits, and stays. I guess a "angel love Yankee" is one who always says "that's how we used to do it up north". Even I admit they can be annoying.

[monsoon]

flotown, on Jan 29 2006, 04:01 PM, said:

..... I guess a "angel love Yankee" is one who always says "that's how we used to do it up north". Even I admit they can be annoying.

Haha, the cursing nanny does not like that word, but I know what you mean.

In SC I've heard a slightly different version of this....

"A yankee is someone from NC, a damn yankee is anyone from further north than that.... "