[Greenville]

citylife, on Oct 15 2009, 06:44 PM, said:

City Tavern, Sharkey's, Addy's, Corner Pocket, etc.

Since when is a bar ever advertised as "fun for the entire family?" Most places which are billed as "family friendly" don't usually serve alcohol, due to the belief that people don't want to expose their children to people who are drinking heavily. They definitely aren't centered around alcohol. At least that's my perception.

[mallguy]

Citylife, sorry, my post was not intending to insult/mock/etc. you- you have great posts and are a very valuable source on this board- my apologies. It was directed at the new tenant.

What I was saying was that this shopping center was described- both by the developers and others- as a "prime" "upscale" "lush"/etc. development- just skim through the posts in the beginning of this thread. And look what we're getting? A Costco, a Rooms to Go, a mostly-demolished mall's remaining portion being re-leased, and now a family-friendly "entertainment center" with a bowling alley and a bar.

Greenville deserves better- and this is a step down in upscale-ness from the last incarnation of Greenville Mall, which I really liked. I'd say that Shops at Greenridge are also more upscale than what I'm seeing so far at Magnolia Park.

This post has been edited by mallguy: 15 October 2009 - 08:39 PM

[citylife]

mallguy, on Oct 15 2009, 10:39 PM, said:

Citylife, sorry, my post was not intending to insult/mock/etc. you- you have great posts and are a very valuable source on this board- my apologies. It was directed at the new tenant.

What I was saying was that this shopping center was described- both by the developers and others- as a "prime" "upscale" "lush"/etc. development- just skim through the posts in the beginning of this thread. And look what we're getting? A Costco, a Rooms to Go, a mostly-demolished mall's remaining portion being re-leased, and now a family-friendly "entertainment center" with a bowling alley and a bar.

Greenville deserves better- and this is a step down in upscale-ness from the last incarnation of Greenville Mall, which I really liked. I'd say that Shops at Greenridge are also more upscale than what I'm seeing so far at Magnolia Park.

Oh, I didn't think you were mocking/insult me. I was just saying that we're in a recession and luxury retailers currently aren't expanding right now. It truly is unfortunate but that's just the way it is. Sorry for the confusion. I know they're not high-end but Rooms To Go and Costco were planned from the very beginning. In fact, the very first post in this thread says that. Yes, we do deserve better. Hopefully the economy will improve enough so where these luxury retailers start to expand again into our market. You have to give credit to Menin for at least trying to make something work. Most developments like this aren't seeing any movement at all.

[citylife]

Greenville, on Oct 15 2009, 08:28 PM, said:

Since when is a bar ever advertised as "fun for the entire family?" Most places which are billed as "family friendly" don't usually serve alcohol, due to the belief that people don't want to expose their children to people who are drinking heavily. They definitely aren't centered around alcohol. At least that's my perception.

I didn't say the bars themselves were advertised as family friendly. I said downtown was and there are bars located there. Kind of like how they're touting Magnolia Park as family friendly and there are going to be bars located there too. Sorry for the confusion Greenville. My apologizes.

This post has been edited by citylife: 15 October 2009 - 10:21 PM

[Greenville]

My point was that this new fun zone tenant describes itself as family friendly, yet has a martini bar. That is contradictory to me. How can they possibly combine snot-nosed kids with martinis and not have a conflicting environment?

Personally I would prefer that they take the Dave & Buster's angle and cut out the kid-friendly stuff. We already have Chuck E. Cheese and plenty of other play areas for kids. What we need is an adult-themed fun place. That would complement the future town center at Magnolia Park - with The Grape, Trader Joe's, Maggiano's Little Italy, Cheesecake Factory, etc. - perfectly. This kid-friendly bowling alley with martinis, not so much.

But hey, it's last call at the bar and Magnolia Park Town Center is desperate to have someone - anyone - to commit to them. They have been patient all night, but nothing has happened. It's slim pickings, for sure. So they're seemingly to the point of scanning the wall for whoever is left. I don't blame the developers exactly - I just think it could be better than this.

This post has been edited by Greenville: 16 October 2009 - 01:37 AM

[GvilleSC]

Greenville, on Oct 16 2009, 03:33 AM, said:

But hey, it's last call at the bar and Magnolia Park Town Center is desperate to have someone - anyone - to commit to them. They have been patient all night, but nothing has happened. It's slim pickings, for sure. So they're seemingly to the point of scanning the wall for whoever is left. I don't blame the developers exactly - I just think it could be better than this.

Precisely.

[citylife]

Greenville, on Oct 16 2009, 03:33 AM, said:

My point was that this new fun zone tenant describes itself as family friendly, yet has a martini bar. That is contradictory to me. How can they possibly combine snot-nosed kids with martinis and not have a conflicting environment?

Personally I would prefer that they take the Dave & Buster's angle and cut out the kid-friendly stuff. We already have Chuck E. Cheese and plenty of other play areas for kids. What we need is an adult-themed fun place. That would complement the future town center at Magnolia Park - with The Grape, Trader Joe's, Maggiano's Little Italy, Cheesecake Factory, etc. - perfectly. This kid-friendly bowling alley with martinis, not so much.

But hey, it's last call at the bar and Magnolia Park Town Center is desperate to have someone - anyone - to commit to them. They have been patient all night, but nothing has happened. It's slim pickings, for sure. So they're seemingly to the point of scanning the wall for whoever is left. I don't blame the developers exactly - I just think it could be better than this.

I see what you're saying, but Dave and Busters is also touted as family friendly and it has a bar: http://www.daveandbu...ks/default.aspx Why can't we have a place that caters to both kids and adults? Dave and Busters does that already and it works. People love it. It is unfortunate that Menin hasn't been able to land these high-end tenants due to the recession. Hopefully within the next year or two, they'll be able to.

This post has been edited by citylife: 16 October 2009 - 12:49 PM

[Greenville]

citylife, on Oct 16 2009, 11:52 AM, said:

Why can't we have a place that caters to both kids and adults?

Because we already have a bunch of places geared toward kids. What's wrong with having just one fun place for adults? Offering additional entertainment options is an important step for our metro to take, and ideally these options will include stuff for young professionals and active adults. We have some great options, but there is room for more.

[mallguy]

Maybe Menin should have just tried something else with the site?

That site and its developments have always just been the wrong thing at the wrong time- the original mall opened right before Haywood did and thus was dying in the late 80's even and the renovated mall opened right before Haywood expanded and for various reasons died again. Now they're building what is turning out to be a big-box center, mostly, but Shops at Greenridge already have been built and already snagged so many desirable tenants.

Maybe housing or office space? Or nothing, until the economy improves? I agree with Citylife- once the economy picks up, higher-end retailers will be in more of an expansion mode- but won't they want to cluster with other higher-end stores? Greenridge and Haywood already have clusters of them (at the least); Magnolia Park is filling its space with non-upscale stores, and it may make it more difficult to attract them with the larger tenants already accounted for as non-upscale.

[distortedlogic]

citylife, on Oct 14 2009, 09:58 PM, said:

We're ready. The question is are you? http://www.greenvilleonline.com/article/20...1/YOURUPSTATE02

We are thrilled to be joining the 700,000 square foot campus and excited to be the exclusive Bowling and Family Entertainment Center for Magnolia Park. SUPERPLAY USA, a Bowling and Family Entertainment Center will offer an all encompassing entertainment and dining experience where guests can immerse themselves in a State-of-the-Art "family playground"; offering 34 lanes of private bowling, laser tag, an interactive game room, sports bar, martini bar, party rooms, and a billiards room.

I may be in the minority here, but this sounds kinda like what I would like to see DT. For years I have been saying that DT could use a family friendly, classy, bowling alley, with a few other attractions. It would be another good peice to the DT puzzle. I wish this project were going DT somewhere, and leave this site for other things. Actually, I wonder if a smaller version of the McChesney point project would have worked at this site instead of big box retail.

[Sonrise]

Greenville, on Oct 16 2009, 02:33 AM, said:

My point was that this new fun zone tenant describes itself as family friendly, yet has a martini bar. That is contradictory to me. How can they possibly combine snot-nosed kids with martinis and not have a conflicting environment?

Personally I would prefer that they take the Dave & Buster's angle and cut out the kid-friendly stuff. We already have Chuck E. Cheese and plenty of other play areas for kids. What we need is an adult-themed fun place. That would complement the future town center at Magnolia Park - with The Grape, Trader Joe's, Maggiano's Little Italy, Cheesecake Factory, etc. - perfectly. This kid-friendly bowling alley with martinis, not so much.

But hey, it's last call at the bar and Magnolia Park Town Center is desperate to have someone - anyone - to commit to them. They have been patient all night, but nothing has happened. It's slim pickings, for sure. So they're seemingly to the point of scanning the wall for whoever is left. I don't blame the developers exactly - I just think it could be better than this.

Couldn't agree more; it sends a really mixed message, as the "martini" crowd and the kids bowling/arcade are two entirely different demos. Dave and Busters isn't marketed as family friendly; it's target is the hip and trendy 20 and 30 somethings. I dunno about this place; I'll reserve judgment.

[citylife]

Sonrise, on Oct 16 2009, 10:09 PM, said:

Couldn't agree more; it sends a really mixed message, as the "martini" crowd and the kids bowling/arcade are two entirely different demos. Dave and Busters isn't marketed as family friendly; it's target is the hip and trendy 20 and 30 somethings. I dunno about this place; I'll reserve judgment.

Why does a bowling alley have to be for kids? I thought a bowling alley was for everybody of any age group. Dave and Busters has an arcade room too. Not any different than this place. It's like having Lowes instead of Home Depot. Both are the same type of place. Menin wants to draw in the most people it can to help attract the high-end restaurants/retailers you guys want and to do that they need an entertainment center that caters to the most people it can not just one age demographic.

[citylife]

mallguy, on Oct 16 2009, 07:39 PM, said:

Maybe Menin should have just tried something else with the site?

That site and its developments have always just been the wrong thing at the wrong time- the original mall opened right before Haywood did and thus was dying in the late 80's even and the renovated mall opened right before Haywood expanded and for various reasons died again. Now they're building what is turning out to be a big-box center, mostly, but Shops at Greenridge already have been built and already snagged so many desirable tenants.

Maybe housing or office space? Or nothing, until the economy improves? I agree with Citylife- once the economy picks up, higher-end retailers will be in more of an expansion mode- but won't they want to cluster with other higher-end stores? Greenridge and Haywood already have clusters of them (at the least); Magnolia Park is filling its space with non-upscale stores, and it may make it more difficult to attract them with the larger tenants already accounted for as non-upscale.

I'm not sure what they could have done differently. It truly is unfortunate what happened to Greenville Mall. It was a beautiful, high-end mall and will be missed. The Shops at Greenridge has Ross/Lowe's which are low-end tenants but it also has PF Changs/J. Jill which are high-end tenants. It even had Harold's before they filed for bankruptcy. Why can't Magnolia Park Town Center have low-end and high-end tenants when the Shops at Greenridge does? Same goes for Haywood Mall. It has low-end tenants like Sears but also has high-end tenants like Coach and Pottery Barn. Why can't Magnolia Park?

This post has been edited by citylife: 16 October 2009 - 08:30 PM

[Greenville]

citylife, on Oct 16 2009, 09:24 PM, said:

Why does a bowling alley have to be for kids? I thought a bowling alley was for everybody of any age group. Dave and Busters has an arcade room too. Not any different than this place. It's like having Lowes instead of Home Depot. Both are the same type of place. Menin wants to draw in the most people it can to help attract the high-end restaurants/retailers you guys want and to do that they need an entertainment center that caters to the most people it can not just one age demographic.

Have you actually been to a Dave & Busters, citylife? I'm not trying to be mean, but if you have, you've probably noticed that it is most definitely targeted toward people in their 20s and 30s (and occasionally 40s). Think singles and young couples - not the family with the van, five kids, and three strollers. Basically, D&B is a cool place for adults to have fun. There are drinks, good music, and adult conversation.

And before you suggest something like Frankie's Fun Park, please know that you will feel like a goober for going there on a Friday or Saturday night once you are several years removed from high school.

[citylife]

Greenville, on Oct 16 2009, 11:57 PM, said:

Have you actually been to a Dave & Busters, citylife? I'm not trying to be mean, but if you have, you've probably noticed that it is most definitely targeted toward people in their 20s and 30s (and occasionally 40s). Think singles and young couples - not the family with the van, five kids, and three strollers. Basically, D&B is a cool place for adults to have fun. There are drinks, good music, and adult conversation.

And before you suggest something like Frankie's Fun Park, please know that you will feel like a goober for going there on a Friday or Saturday night once you are several years removed from high school.

I've been to Dave and Busters many times. In fact, when I went to the one in Jacksonville earlier this year I saw adults at the bar having drinks and saw kids playing arcade games. The last time I went to Frankies Fun Park was in 2006.

[mallguy]

Dave & Busters is a lot of fun for adults and whole families.

Menin should have made Magnolia Park offer something that Greenville doesn't have- it should have created its own market. Greenville already has tons of big-box stores, and so making Magnolia Park a clone of what's already in town isn't needed, and it won't make it a destination. Maybe a true lifestyle center like the Grove in LA or an outdoor mall/entertainment area like the Irvine Spectrum in Orange County? Menin would have to wait until the economy picks up to make something like that, and I'd guess that the mortgage payments on the land are pretty steep, so I'd guess it's just doing something to generate cash flow. Too bad.

[Sonrise]

Having been to D & B many times several years ago in Philly, I can assure you it's not intended nor marketed as a "family fun place." What may be confusing some is that their concept takes kids games, i.e arcade games and modifies them towards the 20 and 30 something hip and trendy crowd. To confirm my believe, I researched their website, and nary a picture of a kid was to be found. Even on the games link:

http://www.daveandbu...ay/default.aspx

[greenvilleguy]

Having worked at Greenville Mall and seen the transformations over the years I can honestly say that the only word that comes to my mind after reading the bowling alley article is DISGUST. The thought of a family bowling alley with a sports bar and martini bar is sketchy at best. I know the economy is in the tank but I'd rather see one of the most valuable pieces of land in Greenville sit empty than to be grossly misused. Maybe one day Greenville's shopping/dining experience will rise to it's potential and not be lost to something that belongs at Frankie's Fun Park...

[mallguy]

greenvilleguy, on Oct 21 2009, 06:14 PM, said:

Having worked at Greenville Mall and seen the transformations over the years I can honestly say that the only word that comes to my mind after reading the bowling alley article is DISGUST. The thought of a family bowling alley with a sports bar and martini bar is sketchy at best. I know the economy is in the tank but I'd rather see one of the most valuable pieces of land in Greenville sit empty than to be grossly misused. Maybe one day Greenville's shopping/dining experience will rise to it's potential and not be lost to something that belongs at Frankie's Fun Park...

I agree with you! Having grown up when Greenville had mediocre shopping at best, it was so great to see Greenville Mall go way up in 1995 and to see Haywood improve, and to see that beautiful, nice mall turn into THIS is unfortunate- shopping is supposed to get better and more upscale, and it's the reverse here.

[citylife]

Not sure what to make of this news article: http://www.wyff4.com...063/detail.html