Nashville Bits and Pieces

[fieldmarshaldj]

Louisville-Jefferson would be right after Suffolk, VA (at about 399 sq miles) on that list, BUT because about 75 sq miles of that are the smaller incorporated towns (which were not dissolved with the 2003 merger), only the 325 sq miles including the old city and the formerly unincorporated areas are counted on the list.

[titanhog]

Has anyone ever figured out how much of our 500+ sq. miles is non-developable? (is that a word?)  With hills, lakes, flood plain, etc...a decent percentage of that 500+ will never have development.

[fieldmarshaldj]

^Well, Davidson County officially has 526 sq miles, of which 22 of them are water, so we have 504 sq miles of land. As for how much of the remainder is flood-plain and the rest unfavorably topography for development is the question. Might possibly be as high as 100 sq miles (wild guess), with the bulk of that being in the sparsely-populated NW quadrant of the county.

[UTgrad09]

I've done the figures before, and even have a crude hand drawn map. I'm on mobile, so if someone else could search and link it....it's a thread I started a few years ago. Search population density.

[rookzie]

^Well, Davidson County officially has 526 sq miles, of which 22 of them are water, so we have 504 sq miles of land. As for how much of the remainder is flood-plain and the rest unfavorably topography for development is the question. Might possibly be as high as 100 sq miles (wild guess), with the bulk of that being in the sparsely-populated NW quadrant of the county.

I know in the mid-2000s, Metro reclaimed some residential (even before the 2010 flood) around some sites near branches and ditches of the Sevenmile Creek (tributary of the Mill Creek watershed basin), specifically in low areas as near Blackman Rd and Edmondson Pk.  While I don't even have the slightest as to what extent this might have been undertaken, Metro had small ranch houses removed from a number of these "wetland" flood areas, although possibly too few to have made much difference.  Besides, displaced residents probably re-integrated into the population sea.  But this can have an effect on the square-mileage of "developable" area, as titanhog taught me to say.

-==-

[titanhog]

I know in the mid-2000s, Metro reclaimed some residential (even before the 2010 flood) around some sites near branches and ditches of the Sevenmile Creek (tributary of the Mill Creek watershed basin), specifically in low areas as near Blackman Rd and Edmondson Pk.  While I don't even have the slightest as to what extent this might have been undertaken, Metro had small ranch houses removed from a number of these "wetland" flood areas, although possibly too few to have made much difference.  Besides, displaced residents probably re-integrated into the population sea.  But this can have an effect on the square-mileage of "developable" area, as titanhog taught me to say.

-==-

If I've created a new word, I want credit in the next edition of Webster's! 

 

Definitely a lot of land in NW and West Davidson County that would be hard to build upon.  There's also several hills throughout the county that, at the most, will only have a few homes sparsely located throughout hundreds of acres by those brave enough to build on land that's likely to have some clay underneath it.

 

(btw...looked up Developable...and it's already a word! Dang it!  I'm always a day late... )

Edited May 22, 2015 by titanhog

[UTgrad09]

Has anyone ever figured out how much of our 500+ sq. miles is non-developable? (is that a word?)  With hills, lakes, flood plain, etc...a decent percentage of that 500+ will never have development.

 

This map doesn't show what is "non-developable". but it does illustrate where the extreme rural areas are.

 

http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/index.php/topic/115350-nashville-davidson-county-population-density/

 

 

Purple, blue, and dark green are either extremely rugged, covered in water, or in some cases, park land. Light green is either industrial, part of a flood plain, or filling in. 

 

I would say that anywhere from 130-150 square miles of Davidson County is not suitable for urban development.

[titanhog]

This map doesn't show what is "non-developable". but it does illustrate where the extreme rural areas are.

 

http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/index.php/topic/115350-nashville-davidson-county-population-density/

 

 

Purple, blue, and dark green are either extremely rugged, covered in water, or in some cases, park land. Light green is either industrial, part of a flood plain, or filling in. 

 

I would say that anywhere from 130-150 square miles of Davidson County is not suitable for urban development.

Great work!

 

Yeah...if we just sliced off the western / northwestern edge of the county with rough terrain and very few homes, our "per square mile" numbers would definitely be more like other southern cities, as you mentioned.

[rookzie]

Great work!

 

Yeah...if we just sliced off the western / northwestern edge of the county with rough terrain and very few homes, our "per square mile" numbers would definitely be more like other southern cities, as you mentioned.

 

The west and particularly the NW and NNW historically have been behind, in terms of concentrations and development, not to discredit that as a virtue.  These remain as the most "countrified" (rural), provincial sectors in the entire county, which of course also is contiguous to similar and greater expanses of land in neighboring Cheatham and Robertson Counties (which may explain that sense of maintained inert state of very low density).

 

I realize that this also is a reference to a matter which I really should be posting in the Mass Transit thread, but by the very nature of this sub-topic and UTgrad's value-added, term-paper quality analysis of extrapolation, I place it here for qualification.  It stands to be counter-productive for an MPO proposal to target a Clarksville-Nashville transportation corridor for funding and implementation ahead of any other corridor, especially the SE and NE corridors (in that rank and order).  In addressing comprehensive needs, we need not "settle" for a next phase of mass transit, with the "limiting re-agent" being that it is deemed the cheapest initiative of all proposed long-range plans, and that therefore the cheapest should pre-empt efforts to address needs of a higher density corridor.  We've already done that once ─ back some 9 years ago (MCS) ─ with relatively little to tout in terms of return on investment for the quality of life with alternative commuting.

-==-

[smeagolsfree]

I heard that we were bigger than Boston again this evening on Fox 17.

I went to Wikipedia and looked at the stats. The entire land area of Suffolk county is 58 sq miles with 12,416 per sq mile. If we had that density without a mass transit system that works, the NIMBY's would be screaming bloody murder wanting mass transit solutions. The average Joe in Nashville is absolutely clueless.

1643

Named for Suffolk

Seat Boston

Largest city Boston

Area

• Total 120 sq mi (311 km2)

• Land 58 sq mi (150 km2)

• Water 62 sq mi (161 km2), 52%

Population (Est.)

• (2014) 767,254

• Density 12,416/sq mi (4,794/km²)

Congressional districts 5th, 7th, 8th

Time zone Eastern: UTC-5/-4

[fieldmarshaldj]

^If we had Boston's density in 504 sq miles, we'd have almost 6.3 million people. The need for mass transit under such circumstances would be self-evident. Given that we're 1/10th as dense and 9 times as large in area, it's a much harder sell, and difficult to justify to the taxpayers ("Joe and Jane Nashville"). I'd love to see trolley cars plying the streets again, but unless you can figure out a way to pay for it and have it be viable (cost/maintenance, ridership, not causing harm to existing traffic, et al), it will remain merely a wish.

[MLBrumby]

Wife, kids and I swung through town this weekend on our way up from some (in law) cousin's land at land between the lakes... and passed through downtown... midtown and sobro.  OMG... there were people out on the streets walking and all the restaurants were filled with people eating/drinking on the terraces.   Did not make it south of H'boro village.... or anywhere south of I-40 around downtown.  What struck me is that on a Sunday (on a holiday weekend) there was so much activity.  Kudos to Music City.  Wish I could have stayed a bit longer and tried out a restaurant or two.  We did have enough time to go to Farmers Market... It was in the afternoon (close to 2:30) and the place was packed.  The inside looked like a European city market with the variety of foods and people.  Packed!!   Driving out of town, we went past the new baseball park  and saw all the construction.  Every single car on the road (not parked!) was from out of state (Illinois and Ohio had the greatest number with Michigan a close third and Minnesota fourth).  

Edited May 25, 2015 by MLBrumby

[jmtunafish]

Wife, kids and I swung through town this weekend on our way up from some (in law) cousin's land at land between the lakes... and passed through downtown... midtown and sobro.  OMG... there were people out on the streets walking and all the restaurants were filled with people eating/drinking on the terraces.   Did not make it south of H'boro village.... or anywhere south of I-40 around downtown.  What struck me is that on a Sunday (on a holiday weekend) there was so much activity.  Kudos to Music City.  Wish I could have stayed a bit longer and tried out a restaurant or two.  We did have enough time to go to Farmers Market... It was in the afternoon (close to 2:30) and the place was packed.  The inside looked like a European city market with the variety of foods and people.  Packed!!   Driving out of town, we went past the new baseball park  and saw all the construction.  Every single car on the road (not parked!) was from out of state (Illinois and Ohio had the greatest number with Michigan a close third and Minnesota fourth).  

 

I had a similar experience yesterday.  I had friends from out west with me (Boise and Tucson), neither had been to downtown Nashville. I drove them into downtown at around 1pm and holy cow it was packed. Crowded sidewalks and crosswalks, people seemingly hanging out of every upper floor window of every restaurant and honky tonk, not just on Lower Broad but also on 2nd Ave.  Granted, it was a gorgeous day on a holiday weekend, but still it was more than I'd ever seen other than before a hockey game.  My friends were very impressed, and so was I.  In fact, as we came over that little hill on Broadway heading east from West End, one of my friends let out something like "Oh wow look at all those people!" as Lower Broadway came into view.  It felt good to show them what Nashville has become.

[smeagolsfree]

Wife, kids and I swung through town this weekend on our way up from some (in law) cousin's land at land between the lakes... and passed through downtown... midtown and sobro.  OMG... there were people out on the streets walking and all the restaurants were filled with people eating/drinking on the terraces.   Did not make it south of H'boro village.... or anywhere south of I-40 around downtown.  What struck me is that on a Sunday (on a holiday weekend) there was so much activity.  Kudos to Music City.  Wish I could have stayed a bit longer and tried out a restaurant or two.  We did have enough time to go to Farmers Market... It was in the afternoon (close to 2:30) and the place was packed.  The inside looked like a European city market with the variety of foods and people.  Packed!!   Driving out of town, we went past the new baseball park  and saw all the construction.  Every single car on the road (not parked!) was from out of state (Illinois and Ohio had the greatest number with Michigan a close third and Minnesota fourth).

Great to have had you in town. Hope you can make it back soon.

[Nashvilletitans]

If is hard to look at nashville in square miles - So I think of It  as the aprox 330,000. acres.  Unfortunately when nashvllle next was doing it studies they did not differentiate  between undeveloped land that was buildable ( not in flood plane, water, and steeps slopes.)   The NW quadrant of the city has vast amounts of undeveloped land but almost all of it (approx 95%) is steep slopes and some of it is flood planes.   There could be approx 100,000 acres in that part of the city that is steep slopes with very few residences located on it.  Only a very small percentage of that is farmed as well. It is steep hills with trees and a few residences scattered in the valleys.  

 

That Bells bend concept a few years ago dealt with the fact that it was the largest remaining accessible and build able piece of land left in the city and perhaps one of the largest build able parcels in a city in the country.   The land in that area is zoned for single family homes on 2 acres.  They did not want to do a sub division like the neighbors wanted.  And they proposed a 30 year master plan of mixed use medium density development on 600 acres surrounded by 900 acres of green space.  as well as the larger area surrounding it remaining green space ( because it is steep slopes).

 

To make it worse there is only the brilley parkway bridge connecting it to the remained of the city- the next bridge is in ashland city.   For 25 years TDOT has considered building another bridge to this area but Nimbys and other factors have prevailed.

 

Of Nashville's 330,000. acres we are down to a few thousand left that are suitable to build on (not steep slopes or flood plain).  Most of those parcels are a few acres scattered throughout the county

[titanhog]

^^Yeah...you have a little land in Antioch / Cane Ridge that is about to be developed (though I still think they could start over in Hickory Hollow and bulldoze most of that and start over)...maybe a little in the Bellevue area?...Bell's Bend one day in the future...and as you mentioned, a few scattered acres here and there.  Then you start having to look at redeveloping land, like the Fairgrounds...Bellevue Mall...Hickory Hollow...etc

[titanhog]

May be a crazy question...but is the top of the Fifth Third Building a nod to Ryman Auditorium?

 

[NashRugger]

I'd probably say The Parthenon instead of the Ryman.

[titanhog]

I'd probably say The Parthenon instead of the Ryman.

Maybe both?

[donNdonelson2]

I know that the street level design of that tower was meant to pay homage to the Egyptian revival church across the street. Not sure if that design inspiration was to be extended to the building's crown. Shortly after the building was completed I was showing a scenic designer friend from Salt Lake City around town. I was impressed that he recognized the use of stylistic inspiration immediately. There is much to appreciate in our city--both the tower and the church are treasures IMO!

[MidTenn1]

May be a crazy question...but is the top of the Fifth Third Building a nod to Ryman Auditorium?

 

 I would give directions to it by telling people to look for the building with the hayloft on top (referring to the pitched roof and the odd architectural feature just under the arch).

[Paramount747]

FMDJ has the rendering, but the original design was 38 stories and 535 feet. It looked a lot different than this.

[titanhog]

 I would give directions to it by telling people to look for the building with the hayloft on top (referring to the pitched roof and the odd architectural feature just under the arch).

Every time I see it, I think of the Ryman...I guess just because of the pitched roof.

[fieldmarshaldj]

FMDJ has the rendering, but the original design was 38 stories and 535 feet. It looked a lot different than this.

 

No, I have the brochure for the original City Center towers (somewhere in the house, at least). Someone else posted the original design for the-then Third National Bank tower, which was initially situated to the corner of the block rather than facing Church.

[markhollin]

Here is a more complete version of the piece I posted on the "Anyone Feeling Overwhelmed?" thread a few months ago.  It is entitled "Is Nashville Better Off Now?" and is written for folks who feel Nashville is growing too fast, or is losing its charm, or they long for the good ol'days:

https://www.facebook.com/notes/mark-hollingsworth/is-nashville-better-off-now/10153281851486280?pnref=story

Edited May 28, 2015 by markhollin