[baobabs727]

There is an exceptionally good possibility that South Hampton Roads will be getting at least a couple of Macy's stores in 2006. How you ask? With Federated's (Macy's, Bloomingdales) pending buyout of May Company (Hechts, Lord and Taylor), the word on the retail street is that all Hechts will either be converted to Macy's, to Bloomingdales...or shuttered completely. In fact, ALL May Company stores (including venerable Marshall Fields and Lord and Taylor) will lose their old-line names forever over the next year or so. Of course, Lynnhaven's Hechts will be a strong candidate for a Macy's conversion. The present Hechts is a sales per sq ft standout, not only in the area, but nationally, as well. I would love to say that Federated would convert Lynnhaven's now-defunct Lord and Taylor store into a Bloomingdales, but I am not a fool. I also doubt Bloomingdales would come to Town Center of to MacArthur Center. Speaking of MacArthur Center (and specifically of the third anchor), if you will remember, Macy's was the first anchor to sign on to MacArthur Center project as originally conceived way back in 1994! Soon after, however, Macy's filed for bankruptcy and all expansion plans were shelved (enter Dillards). Federated's foray into our market should allow that company to take a fresh look at the "NEW" Norfolk (much has changed since 1994!), and hopefully they will be favorably impressed so as to consider building the region's flagship Macy's downtown in the third anchor block at MacArthur Center (estimated allocation of 160-180,000 sq ft). As for our inability to "afford" Macy's, from my travels I do know that Macy's will gear it's merchandise to the market (either up or down, as with Hecht's and Nordstrom), so Macy's is certainly not out of the question for Lynnhaven, MacArthur and maybe Greenbrier (with renovations).

[vdogg]

baobabs727, on Mar 29 2005, 12:02 AM, said:

There is an exceptionally good possibility that South Hampton Roads will be getting at least a couple of Macy's stores in 2006. How you ask?  With Federated's (Macy's, Bloomingdales) pending buyout of May Company (Hechts, Lord and Taylor), the word on the retail street is that all Hechts will either be converted to Macy's, to Bloomingdales...or shuttered completely. In fact, ALL May Company stores (including venerable Marshall Fields and Lord and Taylor) will lose their old-line names forever over the next year or so.  Of course, Lynnhaven's Hechts will be a strong candidate for a Macy's conversion. The present Hechts is a sales per sq ft standout, not only in the area, but nationally, as well. I would love to say that Federated would convert Lynnhaven's now-defunct Lord and Taylor store into a Bloomingdales, but I am not a fool.  I also doubt Bloomingdales would come to Town Center of to MacArthur Center. Speaking of MacArthur Center (and specifically of the third anchor), if you will remember, Macy's was the first anchor to sign on to MacArthur Center project as originally conceived way back in 1994! Soon after, however, Macy's filed for bankruptcy and all expansion plans were shelved (enter Dillards). Federated's foray into our market should allow that company to take a fresh look at the "NEW" Norfolk (much has changed since 1994!), and hopefully they will be favorably impressed so as to consider building the region's flagship Macy's downtown in the third anchor block at MacArthur Center (estimated allocation of 160-180,000 sq ft).  As for our inability to "afford" Macy's, from my travels I do know that Macy's will gear it's merchandise to the market (either up or down, as with Hecht's and Nordstrom), so Macy's is certainly not out of the question for Lynnhaven, MacArthur and maybe Greenbrier (with renovations).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, macys would be a good fit in both MacArthur and Lynnhaven. I also agree that Greenbrier would need some renovations, and possibly expansion, before they were to get something like that. Oh, btw, welcome to the forum babs!

[baobabs727]

vdogg, on Mar 29 2005, 01:09 AM, said:

Yeah, macys would be a good fit in both MacArthur and Lynnhaven. I also agree that Greenbrier would need some renovations, and possibly expansion, before they were to get something like that. Oh, btw, welcome to the forum babs!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Vdogg, I've followed your posts on all of the other Hampton Roads/VB/Norfolk development boards, and I thank you for your timely and informed contributions. Hey, I have a meeting with Gerald Divaris in a few days. The topic: the future of Town Center development. Seeing as he has been the driving force behind Town Center for the better part of a quarter century, I'd like to be prepared to ask a few well-conceived questions of him. I already have a few in mind, but do you have any ideas? Thanks for the help!

[wrldcoupe4]

baobabs727, on Mar 29 2005, 12:24 AM, said:

Vdogg, I've followed your posts on all of the other Hampton Roads/VB/Norfolk development boards, and I thank you for your timely and informed contributions.  Hey, I have a meeting with Gerald Divaris in a few days. The topic: the future of Town Center development.  Seeing as he has been the driving force behind Town Center for the better part of a quarter century, I'd like to be prepared to ask a few well-conceived questions of him.  I already have a few in mind, but do you have any ideas?  Thanks for the help!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I bet the hampton roads area would enjoy a Ukrop's or two. Williamsburg has fallen in love with it too and they are building a second location there to fulfill the demand which is scheduled to open 2006.

[vdogg]

baobabs727, on Mar 29 2005, 12:24 AM, said:

Vdogg, I've followed your posts on all of the other Hampton Roads/VB/Norfolk development boards, and I thank you for your timely and informed contributions.  Hey, I have a meeting with Gerald Divaris in a few days. The topic: the future of Town Center development.  Seeing as he has been the driving force behind Town Center for the better part of a quarter century, I'd like to be prepared to ask a few well-conceived questions of him.  I already have a few in mind, but do you have any ideas?  Thanks for the help!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow, don't even get me started on that one. I think we could create a whole new thread just for that.
1.) I guess the first question i would ask, on behalf of all hampton roads forumers, is what the heck is the final height on the Westin going to be and if they have settled on a final design?

2.) The next question i would ask would be whether they are in consultation with the developers of cityview, and the prospective developers of the HQ property to ensure that towncenters feel is carried throughout the district, and doesn't become just a patchwork of ideas that doesn't really mesh?

3.) I would ask him how they plan to incorporate pembroke mall into the overall scheme of things and when do they plan on conneting the pedestrian bridges across Va. Beach and independence blvds. Walkability is essential to the success of this project, and so far i don't think they have addressed that issue well enough.

4.) Are there any plans to incorporate the properties bounded by Bonney road, independence, and constitution, into the overall towncenter scheme?

5.) Why has it taken so long to attract enough tenants to build a second office tower and how do they plan to address this issue?

6.) Does he feel that his efforts to create a CBD for Virginia Beach will in anyway adversly affect Norfolk?

7.) This ones for you babs- Why do i get the feeling that you're a reporter? B) .

Thats all i can thing of for now, i'm sure my fellow forumers can come up with many more. Stick around for a few days, you'll get an earful .

[baobabs727]

wrldcoupe4, on Mar 29 2005, 01:31 AM, said:

I bet the hampton roads area would enjoy a Ukrop's or two. Williamsburg has fallen in love with it too and they are building a second location there to fulfill the demand which is scheduled to open 2006.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think Ukrop's would be a great addition to the community, especially since Harris Teeter has been a disappointment and The Fresh Market (Hilltop) is so small. Unfortunately, I have heard that the Ukrop family views our market as over-retailed and too plebian, with Food Lion and Farm Fresh's overwhelming market share and prime real-estate holdings, and the big box boys (Super K, Super Walmart and the Navy Commissaries) playing a major role on the "lower" end of grocery retail.

[wrldcoupe4]

baobabs727, on Mar 29 2005, 12:46 AM, said:

I think Ukrop's would be a great addition to the community, especially since Harris Teeter has been a disappointment and The Fresh Market (Hilltop) is so small.  Unfortunately, I have heard that the Ukrop family views our market as over-retailed and too plebian, with Food Lion and Farm Fresh's overwhelming market share and prime real-estate holdings, and the big box boys (Super K, Super Walmart and the Navy Commissaries) playing a major role on the "lower" end of grocery retail.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Really....well that's interesting. At least here, they aren't even phased by the likes of Food Lion of Super Walmart. In fact, a few years ago, walmart built a supercenter within spitting distance of one of ukrop's oldest locations. So what did they do? they tore it down and have rebuilt a brand new (much more asthetically pleasing esp. compared to the walmart) shopping center anchored by ukrop's and Target. The new Ukrop's is about 55,000 sf and has all the amenities that mean Ukrop's. It opens in a couple months. Personally, from working with the company, I know they have been reluctant to place any stores outside of a 50 mile radius from their central kitchen and bakery (home base for all those incrediblly tasty foods ). Since they deliver all of there specialties to the every store every morning, they've had difficulty coming up with a solution. The new store in Roanoke is the big test I guess. If the supplying of their special items is successful there, I wouldn't rule out a store in hampton roads. They have an extremely conservative growth policy so that they dont lose their values and touch. Maybe by 2010 we'll be talking about a new location in hampton roads. However, if enough hampton roaders want it to happen, email the hell out of them. Maybe it could come sooner???

[baobabs727]

vdogg, on Mar 29 2005, 01:44 AM, said:

Wow, don't even get me started on that one. I think we could create a whole new thread just for that.
.......
Thats all i can thing of for now, i'm sure my fellow forumers can come up with many more. Stick around for a few days, you'll get an earful  .

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ha! I can assure you that I am not a reporter! However, being a native of Va. Beach and a relatively new resident of Downtown, I do have a keen interest most all that is local development. (Yes, I believe that the CBD, Oceanfront AND Downtown can and will flourish!) I think your questions are great, and I'll also ask him when we will begin to see the retail explosion at Town Center. Sure, the restaurants are great, but I think everyone knows that Town Center will need to attract unique and upscale retailers (apparel, lifestyle, home, etc.) to realize its true potential as a shopping and entertainment destination.

[vdogg]

baobabs727, on Mar 29 2005, 01:01 AM, said:

Ha! I can assure you that I am not a reporter!    However, being a native of Va. Beach and a relatively new resident of Downtown, I do have a keen interest most all that is local development.  (Yes, I believe that the CBD, Oceanfront AND Downtown can and will flourish!)  I think your questions are great, and I'll also ask him when we will begin to see the retail explosion at Town Center.  Sure, the restaurants are great, but I think everyone knows that Town Center will need to attract unique and upscale retailers (apparel, lifestyle, home, etc.) to realize its true potential as a shopping and entertainment destination.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, retail, absolutely. It was never so disappointed as the day i learned that Gaylans had been canabalized and turned into another Dick's. I just looks so tacky now. I would love to see something like a Macys go there instead. And with the Westin being built right across the street, that Macys would flourish.

[baobabs727]

wrldcoupe4, on Mar 29 2005, 01:58 AM, said:

Really....well that's interesting. At least here, they aren't even phased by the likes of Food Lion of Super Walmart. In fact, a few years ago, walmart built a supercenter within spitting distance of one of ukrop's oldest locations. So what did they do? they tore it down and have rebuilt a brand new (much more asthetically pleasing esp. compared to the walmart) shopping center anchored by ukrop's and Target. The new Ukrop's is about 55,000 sf and has all the amenities that mean Ukrop's. It opens in a couple months. Personally, from working with the company, I know they have been reluctant to place any stores outside of a 50 mile radius from their central kitchen and bakery (home base for all those incrediblly tasty foods  ). Since they deliver all of there specialties to the every store every morning, they've had difficulty coming up with a solution. The new store in Roanoke is the big test I guess. If the supplying of their special items is successful there, I wouldn't rule out a store in hampton roads. They have an extremely conservative growth policy so that they dont lose their values and touch. Maybe by 2010 we'll be talking about a new location in hampton roads. However, if enough hampton roaders want it to happen, email the hell out of them. Maybe it could come sooner???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Email campaign: Good idea! I sure hope you're right about Ukrops possibly overlooking the competition here. I've visited the Williamsburg Ukrops and Fresh Market. Both are great, but Fresh Market is more of a gourmet/natural foods/organic specialty grocer. Much smaller. Ukrops is a big, old-fashioned grocery store, a la Giant (NOVA, DC) and Wegman's (New York and now NOVA!). The Williamsburg market was absolutely starved for this type of thing for years. Glad to hear that #1 was such a success that an additional store is being built there.

[vdogg]

baobabs727, on Mar 29 2005, 01:12 AM, said:

Email campaign: Good idea!  I sure hope you're right about Ukrops possibly overlooking the competition here. I've visited the Williamsburg Ukrops and Fresh Market.  Both are great, but Fresh Market is more of a gourmet/natural foods/organic specialty grocer. Much smaller.  Ukrops is a big, old-fashioned grocery store, a la Giant (NOVA, DC) and Wegman's (New York and now NOVA!). The Williamsburg market was absolutely starved for this type of thing for years.  Glad to hear that #1 was such a success that an additional store is being built there.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Never underestimate the power of being different. If Ukrops is truly as unique as everyone is saying then they will absolutely destroy the competition here. People in this area are getting tired of the sameness, thats why all these new urban style developments are taking off. People just want something different, and Ukrops could certainly carve itself a niche down here if they wanted to.

[urbanvb]

baobabs727, on Mar 29 2005, 01:24 AM, said:

Vdogg, I've followed your posts on all of the other Hampton Roads/VB/Norfolk development boards, and I thank you for your timely and informed contributions.  Hey, I have a meeting with Gerald Divaris in a few days. The topic: the future of Town Center development.  Seeing as he has been the driving force behind Town Center for the better part of a quarter century, I'd like to be prepared to ask a few well-conceived questions of him.  I already have a few in mind, but do you have any ideas?  Thanks for the help!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is GREAT! I am looking forward to hearing from you about your meeting.

[vdogg]

Geez, the Virginia forum has been absolutely on fire today. I think i'm one of the last mods standing, everyone else has gone to bed . Thanks everyone for keeping things so interesting today .

[baobabs727]

vdogg, on Mar 29 2005, 02:08 AM, said:

Yes, retail, absolutely. It was never so disappointed as the day i learned that Gaylans had been canabalized and turned into another Dick's. I just looks so tacky now. I would love to see something like a Macys go there instead. And with the Westin being built right across the street, that Macys would flourish.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You hit the nail on the head on both counts. True, the sucess of the Westin and of the lavish condos topping this 37 story (wow!) project are THE KEY to luring the upscale retail component to Town Center. Macy's would be a terrific addition! I could have sworn that the Galyan's/Dick's block was to be reserved for something besides a sporting goods store? I have a feeling that the developers had wanted Bloomingdales or Saks to go there. Afterall, both Richmond and Birmingham (smaller MSA's) landed a Saks in their Town Centers. Well, we still have the Taco Bell and Va. Pilot blocks. What superb visibility! Do you think the owners will sell willingly, or will the city have to condemn the properties?!

[vdogg]

baobabs727, on Mar 29 2005, 01:24 AM, said:

You hit the nail on the head on both counts. True, the sucess of the Westin and of the lavish condos topping this 37 story (wow!) project are THE KEY to luring the upscale retail component to Town Center.  Macy's would be a terrific addition!  I could have sworn that the Galyan's/Dick's block was to be reserved for something besides a sporting goods store?  I have a feeling that the developers had wanted Bloomingdales or Saks to go there.  Afterall, both Richmond and Birmingham (smaller MSA's) landed a Saks in their Town Centers.  Well, we still have the Taco Bell and Va. Pilot blocks. What superb visibility!  Do you think the owners will sell willingly, or will the city have to condemn the properties?!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The city tried to buy the taco bell property years ago and the owners fought it all the way. The city abandoned its plans for that property temporarily because it would only be
in later phases that the property would be developed. We're coming up on a period of time when they'll seriously have to consider that issue again. The pilot is more than willing to sell and in fact i've heard rumors that they may become tennants in one of the towers eventually.

[wrldcoupe4]

You guys should definitely check out the Ukrop's in Williamsburg. Just don't plan your trip on a Sunday and don't plan on picking up a 12 pack of bud either Have lunch in the grill and cafe and stop by the Chef's Specialties case to pick up a gourmet dinner!

Judging by the way the new stores are, if HR was to get one it would almost definitely have the following:
-everything you expect in a grocery store (cept the alcohol)
-full floral dept.
-pharmacy and wellness center (some have a drive thru as well)
-first market bank (owned by ukrop's) location
-grill and cafe (2nd floor of the cafe would also have a celebration room which can accomodate up to 100 people)
-salad bar
-large natural and organics section
-photo development
-chef's specialties case
-International section (plus huge selection of specialty and international cheeses)
-sushi bar
-dry cleaning (one location also has an alteration shop)
-coffee/breakfast/icecream/smoothie bar
-the bakery and kitchen foods that make ukrops ukrops
**one of the new locations also has a full service YMCA location as well as a doctors office for up to 3 physicians, another location has a play area for kids so you don't have to put up with them while you shop...
**and of course someone always takes your groceries out to the car for you and the only tip allowed is a thank you.

I'd say its at least one up on Food Lion

They also have a new store concept called Joe's Market which would end up being a nice companion in the new VA beach town center.

This post has been edited by wrldcoupe4: 29 March 2005 - 01:37 AM

[lammius]

Those Richmonders and their fascination with Ukrop's. It's like a civic pride thing for them.

[wrldcoupe4]

lammius, on Mar 29 2005, 02:26 AM, said:

Those Richmonders and their fascination with Ukrop's.  It's like a civic pride thing for them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Lammius- trust me, when you grow up having one 5 minutes away and then end up going to school in D.C. with no Ukrop's in sight, its painful. I'm feelin the pain right now. A somewhat but not really comparison would be shopping at wegmans all your life and then having the only option be a food lion or a giant.

Funny thing is that they actually receive emails from people who are moving back to richmond after being away saying one reason they are coming back is that they miss having a Ukrop's.

This post has been edited by wrldcoupe4: 29 March 2005 - 01:44 AM

[rusthebuss]

guynvb, on Mar 28 2005, 08:15 PM, said:

Agreed! So, what are some real ways of attracting these kind of companies? I believe we have an educated workforce, that I don't think that is the problem. I think the Peninsula is doing a better job (IMO) of attracting high paying jobs but that is because they have NASA over there as well as other high tech companies. One component of sucessfull cities is it's universities. ODU seems set on developing the campus in Norfolk so that is a plus. Hopefully, that will attract some attention. I do think the military makes it difficult because of the lower wages. That is one problem but alas we are dominated by the military and they are not going away. But if you think about it San Diego has a large base but they are doing quite well with the biotech industry.  I wonder what are the missing components here in Hampton Roads?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They are no way as big military wise and they are not dependant of the military. The military did not build the area as well in San Diego.

[rusthebuss]

baobabs727, on Mar 29 2005, 01:46 AM, said:

I think Ukrop's would be a great addition to the community, especially since Harris Teeter has been a disappointment and The Fresh Market (Hilltop) is so small.  Unfortunately, I have heard that the Ukrop family views our market as over-retailed and too plebian, with Food Lion and Farm Fresh's overwhelming market share and prime real-estate holdings, and the big box boys (Super K, Super Walmart and the Navy Commissaries) playing a major role on the "lower" end of grocery retail.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't I think we need them we have something better: Farm Fresh, I don't think we need someone else's chains here. We need ones that were started in the area.