UP|Detroit http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/forums.html Sun, 11 May 2008 17:57:59 -0500 15 UP|Detroit http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/forums.html Forbes: Detroit Has Second Worst Commute In Country
QUOTE
To find them and others, Forbes.com looked at the 75 largest metro areas in the U.S. and evaluated them based on traffic delays, travel times and how efficiently commuters use existing infrastructure, based on data from the Texas Transportation Institute and the U.S. Census Bureau's 2006 American Community Survey. The worst commutes were those that ate up the most hours and were the least reliable. The best commutes were in cities with short, dependable treks to the office, where fellow commuters efficiently use transit options to reduce congestion.


I'm curious about how weighted the survey was. When someone says "Worst Commute" it seems like a highly personal issue, and therefore I'd focus more a surveying commuters to find out whether their experience was good or bad. They could have also analyzed "lost hours" which calculates how long it takes to get from point A to point B at speed limit. You subtract that from the average amount of time drivers actually spent in traffic and multiply it by the number of drivers.

I don't think I'd use delays. For example, Chicago may have longer commute times between the years 2005-2007 during the time in which the Dan Ryan had major lane closures for reconstruction. Just imagine how bad commutes would be if you reconstructed Detroit's "Mixing Bowl," Chicago's "Circle," or Atlanta's "Spaghetti Junction."]]> Sat, 10 May 2008 15:23:49 -0500 wolverine Forbes: Detroit Has Second Worst Commute In Country ]]> Sat, 10 May 2008 09:25:05 -0500 TheDetroitCity99 Detroit Projects List Thu, 08 May 2008 18:04:25 -0500 urban_izzy City approves renewal plan for two lower Woodward sites
I wish they would be more specific about their plans for each building. The article simply says that between the two there will be 70 units and 10,000 sq. ft. of retail space.]]> Thu, 08 May 2008 18:02:15 -0500 Lmichigan City approves renewal plan for two lower Woodward sites http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic.../805080475/1361]]> Thu, 08 May 2008 12:12:53 -0500 DetroitMan Metal Scrapping Legislation
http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2008/0...dinances_w.html]]> Sun, 04 May 2008 03:22:21 -0500 wolverine <![CDATA[Mr Flood's Party]]>
Damn, I didn't want to spend my nights waiting in line!

Hm, back when I was a mod, looks like I forgot to move this topic prior to the AA forum]]> Fri, 02 May 2008 02:41:17 -0500 wolverine <![CDATA[Mr Flood's Party]]>
It was prior to finals in 1986... Our dorm floor from Coman Baits II (Graduate dorm on North Campus UM) went down to center campus for a final fling. We ended up in line at Mr. Flood's Party ( about 10:00pm) and because it was overfull, we waited for people to leave so that we could enter... After about 15 minutes, enough people exited to allow about 5 of us in... what we didn't know was that there had been a confrontation between a patron and the house that resulted in the patron being bounced... I was one of the ones that was entered and I bought a pitcher of beer for our party... I expected that the rest of our party would be inside in the next few minutes... that did not happen... and the doors were closed with what happened next.. no more were let in... as we watched, this is what happened... the patron that was bounced return in his pick-up truck... he was not a U of M student, but instead a local young kid doing carpenter work... when he was bounced, he removed his belt to use on the bouncer (alcohol was definitely a factor here)... the bouncer (1.5x his size) took the belt from him outside the place... he ran away... while half of our party was inside and the other half was waiting at the door... the bounced patron return in his pickup, stopped in front of the place, and threw an empty half gallon glass bottle of booze through the stained glass front door. The bouncer returned and the perp used a 4 foot carpeters level as a bat and broke the bouncers wrists as he tried to defuse the situation... at that point the doors were closed... no more let in... and no kore liquor served... we moved next door to the restaurant bar and watched the police situation that followed... end result... Mr. Floods Party... never reopened...]]> Fri, 02 May 2008 01:29:39 -0500 robschmidt21 Randolph Street building collapse
To be honest, in the state it's in now, I don't really like that building, but looking at it back then, it was nice. The building next to it is really nice though.]]> Tue, 29 Apr 2008 15:42:43 -0500 Jasoncw <![CDATA[There's no hope for Detroit when....]]>

But really, it's sad to see so many people like her in the city when there are so many people working hard and doing good things, and so many people who just want to live their normal lives in a functional Detroit.]]> Tue, 29 Apr 2008 15:14:15 -0500 Jasoncw <![CDATA[There's no hope for Detroit when....]]> http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic...0383/1409/METRO

Check this out. Some schoolchildren question Conyers on her behavior. Basically, an 8th grader asks if it was really appropriate, as an adult, for Conyers to call the president a name. Could this be offensive, could this have jeopardized her job? Basically, Conyers is rude in her reply, stating there was nothing wrong with what she did, and asks the 8th grader if she ever called anyone names. The 8th grader replies.... yes, but you are an adult and held to higher standards. Monica basically says she doesn't want argue.

Amazing how children can be much more mature than city leaders.

]]> Tue, 29 Apr 2008 12:50:32 -0500 wolverine Forbes: Detroit Has Second Worst Commute In Country
2. If people just lived near where they worked it wouldn't be a problem, but for some reason Michiganders can't seem to understand this. (Probably because the Interstate IS our mass transit system and makes it easy to commute.) I know people in other cities that will take the train or bus a half hour to 45 minutes to work.

3. The buses are for poor black people. As bad as that sounds I have heard that statement from so many ignorant white people (there seems to be a lot of them), I and also hopefully everyone in the forum know that the statement isn't true. Here again is another Michigan sigma that we can't seem to get over.

4. I'm not paying for mass transit I am already paying for this car. Even currently there seems to be uncertainty over who would pay for an alternative mode of transportation. Should we tax everyone in the metro area? Should the city of Detroit pay for it? The State? The Fed? This here even seems to come down to a social class divide as well. Just a few years ago Ypsi nearly cut it's AATA service because the council wanted to cut some money and none of them actually used the bus.

I would have to agree with everyone here that it we need to build a mass transit system. Sorry about being a pessimist but I don't believe we can get one until the above is ideas are changed. Politics and gas prices may also help but what is going to happen once we do get more energy efficient autos?

]]> Tue, 29 Apr 2008 12:34:58 -0500 urban_izzy Randolph Street building collapse Tue, 29 Apr 2008 00:13:31 -0500 wolverine Forbes: Detroit Has Second Worst Commute In Country Mon, 28 Apr 2008 18:22:16 -0500 Lmichigan Randolph Street building collapse ]]> Mon, 28 Apr 2008 15:55:37 -0500 Allan Randolph Street building collapse Probably poor maintenance which is the case with so many other Detroit buildings. Mon, 28 Apr 2008 14:55:56 -0500 wolverine Forbes: Detroit Has Second Worst Commute In Country Mon, 28 Apr 2008 13:12:14 -0500 hudkina Forbes: Detroit Has Second Worst Commute In Country
]]> Mon, 28 Apr 2008 13:01:39 -0500 wolverine Forbes: Detroit Has Second Worst Commute In Country

Enough trashing of busses.

They form the back bone of every tansportation system in the world.
Bus Ridership is always higher than other systems even in Chicago/New York/ London.

Busses get a bad reputation due to lack of reliability/ poor maintenance/ not running on time/crime, all of which our system(s) have.

Improve bus service (the problems listed above) and the rest will follow.

This forum should know these things by now!]]> Mon, 28 Apr 2008 10:11:02 -0500 Gangway1111 Forbes: Detroit Has Second Worst Commute In Country
Busses have a bad reputation I think because they are slow in most instances. they have to travel within the constraints of the roads taht they travel on. they also are dirty (historically) and you have to wait out in the elements for a bus. when you ride on a train, it runs on schedule because you know it won't get caught in traffic, there is a station that you wait at where you won't get rained on, and trains are just much more appealing. like traveling in a lexus vs. a kia. that may not be reality but it is perception.

Detroit does have a problem with decentralization which makes developement of mass transit much more difficult. it also places the city in a catch-22. if a mass transit system is developed to suite the current population then it effectively condems the city to this dispersion forever. by supporting a city core by developing mass transit around downtown, development may be influenced but it will be difficult to garner support for this by the suburbs. With quicken loans moving downtown, it will go a long way towards devloping a critical mass downtown which will attact more buisiness. It may not be enough though and until the neighborhoods surrounding downtown are fully revitalized, it will be difficult to get many people back into the city]]> Sun, 27 Apr 2008 20:47:13 -0500 jasonsquiresdo Forbes: Detroit Has Second Worst Commute In Country
QUOTE (hudkina @ Apr 26 2008, 06:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't think it's fair to automatically assume that just because people and jobs are more dispersed than in other metros, that the commute is "worse". I think part of the reason there is not as much congestion is due to the fact that not everyone is trying to get to Point B at the same time. Some people go from A to B, some go from C to F, some go from F to A, etc.


In response to your point I would say that, just because someone doesn't mind spending more time in the car, or even if someone likes it that it's not socially damaging; and this extends beyond commutes to cover the totality of trips a person takes. If you live in a region where amenities and employment are dispersed then your just going to have spend more time in the car. And like I said, while you personally may not mind this, it still means that your spending less time doing other things. Because time in the car is mostly dead time (except for the few who listen to books on tape or the radio etc.) time spent in the car is less socially productive. For parents this means less time with their kids who become latch-key children, for shoppers it means less time spent at a variety of stores and more time a smaller clusters of big box stores, and for everyone it means less community time. People have fewer random social encouters and so become more isolated. When people talk about the loss of community this is what they're speaking of. So when the article mentions a "worse" commute I don't think they're only talking about the experience of the commute, but its spillover effects as well.

I don't mean to sound like a huge proponent of this article. I don't think it has all the answeres, but I think that if we keep excusing regional issues like this we are more likely to be apathetic and accept the status quo (then people wonder why nothing ever gets done or changes).
]]> Sun, 27 Apr 2008 20:10:48 -0500 tracer1138 Randolph Street building collapse ]]> Sun, 27 Apr 2008 20:03:06 -0500 hudkina Forbes: Detroit Has Second Worst Commute In Country Sun, 27 Apr 2008 20:01:07 -0500 hudkina Forbes: Detroit Has Second Worst Commute In Country Sun, 27 Apr 2008 19:58:58 -0500 tracer1138 Forbes: Detroit Has Second Worst Commute In Country
Something like you said above and maybe conncet it to a regional comuter train on existing tracks?]]> Sun, 27 Apr 2008 15:20:01 -0500 Gangway1111 Randolph Street building collapse Sun, 27 Apr 2008 14:18:51 -0500 Allan Randolph Street building collapse Sun, 27 Apr 2008 11:38:05 -0500 detroitfan Forbes: Detroit Has Second Worst Commute In Country Sat, 26 Apr 2008 17:36:24 -0500 hudkina Randolph Street building collapse Sat, 26 Apr 2008 17:05:24 -0500 hudkina Randolph Street building collapse Absolutely Sat, 26 Apr 2008 12:20:35 -0500 wolverine Randolph Street building collapse
Could it be structurally repaired and still keep all of its historic qualities and still be feasible?]]> Sat, 26 Apr 2008 02:31:33 -0500 Lmichigan Forbes: Detroit Has Second Worst Commute In Country this that gets it called the 2nd "worst" commute.]]> Sat, 26 Apr 2008 02:21:40 -0500 Lmichigan Randolph Street building collapse http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic...0366/1408/LOCAL


The owner wants it preserved. That would be nice except you should have thought about investing that $100,000 before it collapsed. Although it makes you wonder if this even the city's business to care about this at all. I mean, look at all their dirty laundry scattered about and tell me what is structurally safe. I don't believe the integrity of several other downtown structures even comes close to matching the odd fellows bldg.


As I said previously, I hope a new larger 'gateway' building goes up on that site. Detroit's continuing loss in downtown density has already tipped my scales for even caring anymore.]]> Sat, 26 Apr 2008 01:53:33 -0500 wolverine Forbes: Detroit Has Second Worst Commute In Country
It's like the people who go completely out of the way to avoid a construction site when in fact it would have taken less time to just go right through.]]> Sat, 26 Apr 2008 01:38:16 -0500 wolverine Forbes: Detroit Has Second Worst Commute In Country
From Forbes.com

Best And Worst Cities For Commuters
QUOTE
In cities boasting such factors, like Buffalo, N.Y., Salt Lake City and Milwaukee, the trip to work is a breeze. But for commuters in Atlanta, Detroit and Miami, the daily grind is just that, thanks to bad traffic, insufficient infrastructure and drivers who resist carpools and public transportation.


On DYes the article is being attacked comparatively where arguments site congestion that is far worse in places like Chicago, Denver, LA and D.C. The comment that Detroit's highways are easy to navigate and never as perpetually stop-and-go as other places frequently comes up as a debasement for the article.

However, I would like to counter this view. These arguments aren't sound because the article isn't actually talking about congestion (Detroit isn't even mentioned in their list cities with worst congestion HERE). Forbes isn't talking about how fast cars move on the highways, Matt Woolsey (the author) is talking about the dispersion of the population with regard to transportation system's ability to serve its masses. In this case, the kicker for Detroit isn't congestion, but the amount of time people spend in their cars because they live further away from employment and are served by fewer choices. As an example, you could live 45 minutes away from work and not encounter another car the whole trip but you would still live 45 minutes away from work.

The system is less efficient because of greater dispersal, requiring (especially in the long term) a greater allocation of resources to infrastructure. Another point on efficiency is the lack of carpoolers so that the ratio of cars on the road to people on the road is greater (same # of cars, fewer people in them). There are more miles of pavement for fewer patrons - the argument being an inefficient use of tax dollars as well. Quality of life is affected as people spend more time on the road between destinations and less time at destinations. Also, the system's quality is hindered because of its reliance on a single mode, that excludes more and more users as income drops.

When you factors these things into the equation and you don't rely solely on congestion as your method, its easier to see why Detroit outranks these other localities. One of the problems is, these factors are harder on the whole to see than congestion. Congestion is more visceral, people react to it more instantly and to a greater degree.

If anything though, I think it should be recognized that if Forbes magazine, which tends toward the conservative side, is chiding us for our lack of transit then the problem is even worse than most realize.]]> Fri, 25 Apr 2008 18:22:09 -0500 tracer1138 Detroit Photo of the Day ]]> Wed, 23 Apr 2008 21:32:49 -0500 ZachariahDaMan Study urges light rail on Woodward Avenue

Will it only take 10 minutes to get from 8 Mile to Downtown, and will the train cars play remixed jazz? Will Detroit be in 3D while we orientate ourselves after getting off the trains? We need some insiders over here.]]> Wed, 23 Apr 2008 19:37:53 -0500 Jasoncw Corktown group pushes plan for Tiger Stadium Wed, 23 Apr 2008 15:07:51 -0500 detroitfan Corktown group pushes plan for Tiger Stadium
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article...7L99acrPNhg4%3D]]> Wed, 23 Apr 2008 11:08:36 -0500 ZachariahDaMan Detroit Off Topic ]]> Wed, 23 Apr 2008 07:39:27 -0500 cheshireguy Study urges light rail on Woodward Avenue The People Mover is just what it was built to be; a demo project. It was never meant to be light rail or any other kind of comprehensive urban transit system. Tue, 22 Apr 2008 23:46:13 -0500 Ramcharger Study urges light rail on Woodward Avenue
QUOTE (Lmichigan @ Apr 22 2008, 04:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm kind of surprised to hear everyone harping on the federal dollar portion of any mass transit plan. Getting the federal money would be the relatively easy part. That always gets used as an excuse to why plans fail, but it's really just a myth. The dysfunction has always been at the local end with the biggest piece of the puzzle not even being how the local government would fund the construction, but how they'd find the money to operate the system. The other big problem besides how operations would be funded has always been exactly the number of lines and if it would be inter-city or intra-city given the city-suburban divide.

What it looks like here is that for the first time in decades, the city administration has given more than just lip service to the idea of rapid transit and put in a hell of a lot of effort in making this happen. It seems they really made this a priority, at this time, instead of placing this on the back burner and hoping something would arise.



One example of that is the hundreds of millions committed to build regional transit in Detroit by the Carter(?) administration that ended up in the overpriced whimper otherwise known as the people mover.]]> Tue, 22 Apr 2008 23:23:40 -0500 tracer1138 Detroit Off Topic Tue, 22 Apr 2008 22:19:55 -0500 ZachariahDaMan Detroit Off Topic Tue, 22 Apr 2008 22:12:57 -0500 wolverine Time to shine Happy to see progress]]> Tue, 22 Apr 2008 17:38:09 -0500 TheDetroitCity99 Detroit Off Topic
RFP for Broadhead Army (courtesy of DEGC)]]> Tue, 22 Apr 2008 15:55:58 -0500 Lmichigan Study urges light rail on Woodward Avenue
What it looks like here is that for the first time in decades, the city administration has given more than just lip service to the idea of rapid transit and put in a hell of a lot of effort in making this happen. It seems they really made this a priority, at this time, instead of placing this on the back burner and hoping something would arise.]]> Tue, 22 Apr 2008 15:49:39 -0500 Lmichigan <![CDATA[Detroit Clears way for Redevelopment of Book-Cadillac & Fort-Shelby Hotels]]>
It's good to hear (if even only a rumor) that Ferchill also has his eyes on it, as well. I never thought the Peebles announcement was very serious, anyway. Another building in the area that really needs to see some kind of redevelopment is the Detroit Free Press Building. I don't get why it's sat vacant for as long as it has.

rbdetsport, the Griswold Garage is supposed to be 10 floors, and from what I can tell, it looks to be 9 floors in this picture, but it may be 9-and-half depending on what kind of garage it is (slanted floors, interntal middle ramp) which developers would simply call 10.

I think it actually looks pretty nice and unassuming, but maybe that's just because of the angle of the picture.]]> Tue, 22 Apr 2008 15:31:25 -0500 Lmichigan Study urges light rail on Woodward Avenue Tue, 22 Apr 2008 15:04:50 -0500 hudkina Detroit Off Topic
My wife and are are coming into town Friday for the Tigers vs. Anaheim at 7 p.m. We haven't been in the D in about 6 months - Is there any new bars/nightclubs for a couple of 30 year-old yuppies like us? We are getting into town around 3 pm and staying at the RenCen, so we need a new great restaurant as well. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, GO TIGERS!!!!!!!!!]]> Tue, 22 Apr 2008 13:39:19 -0500 cheshireguy