never say never, i guess. I imagine there will always be a market for suburban living, even while central cores have gained momentum and have taken off. The suburbs still remain the by far easiest to raise a family, it's way to easy to load three kids in the back of the minivan, instead of getting them all in the elevator, to the bus. All while carrying your groceries and managing where the kids are.

Interesting articale about suburbs. Something that we have been talking about in the Planning realm for a while now.

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200803/subprime

What does this mean from the edge cities? Do you think this will happen here over time, or will growth continue like everyone is expecting and push out even more?

Interesting articale about suburbs. Something that we have been talking about in the Planning realm for a while now.

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200803/subprime

What does this mean from the edge cities? Do you think this will happen here over time, or will growth continue like everyone is expecting and push out even more?

Got a link with renderings for the MLK Apartments revamp. It's called One North Fifth, in relation to its address.
The units will be studio and one bedrooms and will range from, or so I've heard, $650 - 750 per month.
http://onenorthfifth.com/

Nothing terribly exciting, but at least it's actually happening.

I don't know what the neighborhood is called, but it's probably Palm Lane, which runs south of Thomas east from Central to about 15th (?) Street. If I'm trying to show off Phoenix, I take people down that street because there's just frankly not much else to show off.
I don't know that I would consider Phoenix as having a lot of civic pride. The Phoenicians I've met who have been there for more than a few years (which is actually few) like their life, but don't seem to be overly involved in civic life in a more community sense. It's just too disjointed and too much of a transient community at this point. People who move here (Tucson) from Phoenix are much more disillusioned with it though, of course.

But, as far as the Scottsdale question, it's jealousy, yes, but it's also a bit of arrogance culture, I think. Scottsdale has, over the years, been fervently resistant to transit coming into their city, which is why Valley Metro has such terrible service there, and why the light rail, if it comes through at all, will not come through for many years, despite the Downtown/Old Town area being one of the more likely candidates in the Valley for it. That sort of reaction from the government is just reflective of the attitude of its citizenry. I'm just as guilty as the next Arizonan in making assumptions and judgments about a person when they say they live in Scottsdale (many who do immediately add that they're from "South" Scottsdale, which has a totally different reputation), but almost all stereotypes are based on some form of truth.

There are plenty of other "exclusive" areas in the Valley though apart from Scottsdale: Paradise Valley, Cave Creek, Ahwatukee, even some areas of Mesa and into the exurban West Valley. They just don't have quite the same stigma associated with them.

--Bus and rail combination -- Good bus service is critical to a successful rail transit system. Bus service feeds rail, allowing rail to serve passengers who may not live within walking distance of a rail station. Some bus routes will be rerouted, in some cases up to 1.5 miles, to serve light rail stations. (I would have liked more detail about this point.)

--Western extension -- The I-10 median is almost a given as the route for the future light rail line heading west from Downtown. The 50-foot median is too good an opportunity to resist, especially since light rail construction could be combined with ADOT's scheduled improvements to the freeway. The major advantage of this approach will be faster rail service since trains will not have to intersect with car traffic; the major disadvantage will be less opportunity for transit-oriented development.

The People of Phoenix thank you for your kind words. All the neighborhoods mentioned are good neighborhoods. Thats all part of the central core, and east central neighborhoods. They are also going to be the more pricey. If memory serves those neighborhoods have traditionallly kept their value or have experienced a ressurgance in the last 20 years do to a large concentrated gay population that have gone in and made significant investments in them. A four bedroom home in those parts can go for 500-800k sometimes more. Perhaps not as much in the willo neighborhood but i'm less firmiliar.

Great things about them, is your minutes away from a couple different financial districts, entertainment district, and world class sporting venues. Home values are and have been stable, and quite a few of Phoenix's trendy quaint restaurants, and the big pricey ones. Central Phoenix is not as acclaimed as Scottsdale, but much more rooted in culture, with the same kind of $, with much less commercialism. It is my favorite part of the valley. I wish Colin was around, even tho he's Mr. Tucson he tends to be more educated about these things than I, my thoughts are disorganized, ask more questions i'll give you better answers.

Well I actually skipped a day of class to fly out to your fair city and check it out (Plus I just wanted to play golf) and I must say, I was impressed with Scottsdale, but I absolutely loved some of the historic districts in Phoenix itself. I came away loving the Coronado (sp?) area's homes...and I went ga-ga over some houses in the F Q Story district, and I enjoyed the Willo district as well. I cant help but think I missed tons more, but time restraints are an S.O.B.

Anything I should know about those neighborhoods? Hopefully it wont make me think twice about backing a moving van up to one of them in the future...They seemed to be relatively safe during the day, didnt drive through at night, I was dining at Vics at the Valley Ho (Love the architecture, that Valley Ho) but there were people in the yards and waved as I drove by. It seemed very home-ish.

MJLO Id appreciate any insight you have, or anyone elses. You guys have a very beautiful city.

Scottsdale is a world renown, exclusive community. Say it's name just about anywhere in this country and it's automatically associated with affluence. It is certainly not known for crime. No more than any other suburb anywhere. Trust me, it doesn't smell and I have never felt safer anywhere. Any vitriole on PHX forums is just typical local bullcrap. People knock on it because of it's reputation and prestige. Because they don't live there or whatever. I will say it is a little annoying to live in a metro area so big with so many wealthy neighborhoods in all parts of it, and have the only thing anyone knows about it, Scottsdale. I'd also say that the people that live there sometimes think it's the only exclusive community on earth but that's for another topic. As for the crime in Phoenix, it's as good or as bad as any city it's size. It's harder to visualize because everything was built within the last 30years. So you can't always tell by your surroundings if you're in a good or bad neighborhood.

Wealth Management goes over well nicely here. It's certainly not limited to just Scottsdale and PV. Recession I have heard the word, but not seen it. If you are a Finance person you'll understand what I mean. Upper-Middle class people live en masse and in pockets all over the Valley. Your Best bet will be the ones you mentioned above, along with the Newer parts of Chandler, northern Mesa, Tempe, East Central Phoenix, Arrowhead(North Glendale/Peoria), pretty much all over the valley. I'd say you'd do very well in Tempe. You're within minutes of the major job centers, Downtown, uptown, Biltmore, and Scottsdale. Downtown Tempe itself is a fairly decent sized jobcenter, all the banks have presence there. Race Relations, when you mention Memphis, you're talking about an older eastern city. I myself am from a rustbelt city and understand what you mean. You would be talking about relations between those of African desent and Caucasians. That doesn't exist here as African Americans make up a very small portion of the populous. The ones who do live here come from all walks and socio-economic echelons, from the wealthy elite to the very poor. However Phoenix is a new city that deals with the new racism if you will. The large hispanic population, legal and otherwise does cause some friction. As in my earlier post I have never really experienced it. I think the language barrier prevents there from truly being to many issues. For the most part I enjoy everyone I have encountered here, no matter where they come from.
The way they drive is a different story for another post .

I took way to many words to say some simple things. I'm sure there is some racism out here. It's everywhere. But nothing like I experience living east of the Mississippi. To that end tho, there were no where near as many Mexican Immigrants from those parts of the country either so it's fairly difficult to compare and or explain.

did you find out what I was asking about that concrete area?

Hello, that does help A LOT! Well its not too late, but I have decided to change schools to Ole Miss next semester (a more comprehensive financial program, i hope to specialize in either investments or private banking/wealth management, i do believe the wealth management would go over quite well in Scottsdale or paradise valley, heh hopefully so.) so the job market is growing steadily? what about the "recession" effect in the suburbs like Chandler, Sun City, Tempe (another fav area of mine, I love college towns like Austin, which I frequented while I lived in Dallas as a child) Crime is an issue in all major cities Im sure, and Im sure there are a ton of areas to stay away from, but overall what are the race relations like? Memphis as Im sure some of you whove been are aware, is not the most progressive town and thats all I will say about that.

Thoughts, or Id love to hear from you again directly, sir or maam.

hey Zac, this may be to little to late

I have a bachelors in Economics, and have lived in Phoenix now for just over two years. Living here really is nice. As for the gangs and all the crime, I've heard about it but i've never seen it. If you're in the suburbs you're even farther from it. As for your degree, you could have an associates from bob's kolege, and be able to find work here. It's got the best job market in the country, along with one of the highest salary echelons. Probabally some of the best opportunities you'll find will be here, they are everywhere especially in banking. Depending on what you like you could find just what you need here. All the talk of gangs and such are just negative media perception. Nothing is certain, but you probabally wouldn't even notice the crime. I never have. The biggest drawback is probabally the metro area's uber-reliance on the automobile. But they are working on even changing that.

While that's well and good and ambitious, I just don't see it happening. The tallest building in mesa was built in 1986, it looks like a Giant among the flat Mesan lands, as nothing remotely tall stands anywhere near it. Anything proposed over two stories in the city causes an uproar. Aside from that, these kind of visionary plans have popped up all over the valley, especially with the slowing economy, I just don't see them being realized. I think you might see another mediocre office park with three story matching buildings and carports to boot. The suburban Phoenix cities all are very ambitious about creating urban cores, but you can't force it, those kind of things happen over time and simply can't be manufatured, no matter what incentives or attractive locales they are near

[The development] would include street-level retail and 230 luxury apartments in a 6.1-acre triangle bordered by Fifth Avenue, Indian School Road and Goldwater Boulevard.
A nearby hotel and restaurant would be demolished, according to the developer's plans.

Mesa wants and is hoping to create an internationally known destination with high-rise corporate office buildings, world-class resorts, transportation and housing centered on Phoenix-Mesa Gateway Airport and tech-heavy college campuses.
Though an economic slump is under way, planners stress that would not affect the overall long-term vision of the Gateway project, which they expect to unfold over decades and through multiple economic cycles.
...
A host of factors came together that helped fuel the Gateway vision, experts say.
They include the looming departure of GM and aggressive plans by DMB Associates of Scottsdale to begin developing the GM site as early as summer 2009.