Lindt Chocolate in MacArthur Center also closed.

Did the Jack Quinn's for lunch. Witnessed people asking for menus at the door then turning away over the prices. They aren't doing lunch specials yet, I think it was a bad move to not do them.

Food was good! Portion was perhaps too large, smaller and cheaper would have been good. Odd being in the place again.


Regarding Military Circle Mall. If they put a park there, the park would carry the same reputation that the mall does. That is, it'd be "ghetto."

Maybe they need to surround the mall with $1800/month apartments.

Everything is in place in the Norfolk metro to step up 1st. Northern VA is basically D.C. and they have n need for a 18,000-25,000 seat spot due to it being a part of the D.C/Baltimore mega metro area!!! The part of the state that has to step up is Richmond and Norfolk! Some will argue this as wrong and I hear the No's NOW,hahahahah! I say build it between Norfolk and Richmond in Williamburg and share in the cost with the Richmond area to make it a joint venture. If not that it has to be a joint thing cost wise with The big southside cities together(Norfolk/Va Beach in terms of popularity etc.)!

For a new expansion franchise, this would be the case yes because you usually have a waiting period of a few years before that team starts play... However, for a franchise to relocate you'd need an existing venue capable of handling a team. I don't think you'd have any shot at landing a relocation if say you have a venue that can be built within 2 years when there are places like Kansas City with the Sprint Center already waiting. Because HR isn't an establish pro market, you need something that stands out. Tulsa is a great example. They just won the rights to the Detroit WBNA franchise, in part because they had a new venue (which is actually pretty sweet IMO). OKC already had their venue, they just had to make some upgrades in time for the Thunder's first season there.

I dont think the region actually needs to have the arena in place, it is just as important to have the money and land to build it in place. Knowing the state and region had money set aside for when they acquired a team would work just as well.

I'm probably getting more off topic here, but wanted to add my two cents. You won't see any expansion by MLB (if at all) for another 15-20 years. The league is already diluted in terms of talent though nowhere near the NHL (who is by far the most diluted of the 4 big leagues) or to a lesser extent the NBA. For the the most part markets are pretty saturated, though a few select cities like San Antonio and Portland could be realistic places for a MLB team. There are rumors floating around about a major realignment in MLB in the next couple of years to balance the league out. One is get both leagues with the same number of teams (currently 14 AL and 16 NL). The other is to get the major market teams like Boston and New York seperated (though I don't think lessening the Yanks/Sox rivalry is a good idea). The thing that will always hurt the state of Virginia is its proximity to DC and a lesser extent to North Carolina. As others have mentioned, the best hope for the HR area is to get an OKC type scenario. Though, you need a viable arena already built to have a chance (much like Kansas City has done). Can't put enough emphasis on how important it is to already have an existing state of the art venue in place. You can debate all you want on how you may think a given metro can support a team, but without a viable venue in place you can forget it.

Yeah, totally agree with you. Imagine all that as a part of downtown,WOW!!!!! Only can imagine how it was when up Church Street was a part of the downtown and those PJ's!!! Norfolk has to its credit attempted change for the better. I guess I can be disappointed to much with the city because unlike other cities they've at least tried here. I think we will get it right. The downtown is losing space so soon those PJ's will have to be addressed for more land use for the financial district!! L.G.N.M

Vomit. I mean just what Ghent needs, another branch of another lame bank. Go Monarch!

MLB won't work in HR for a variety of reasons.

• Population: With 1.7 million people, HR would be tied for smallest market team in MLB with Milwaukee, and significantly smaller than all existing NL/AL East teams.
  
• Corporate support. HR doesn't have it. Yes, there are a few companies around that can pony up the money, but you need 55-60 that can do it year end and year out. I don't see it.
  
• MLB logistics: There's 16 NL teams and 14 AL teams, with the AL only having 4 teams in the West division. The next expansion in MLB has to be an AL franchise and preferably in the west. If HR were to be awarded a team, they would have to compete in the AL East against the Yankees and Red Sox. HR cannot be consistently competitive with $120-200M+/year payrolls (see Tampa Bay, Baltimore, and Toronto). If fans don't feel like their team have a legitimate shot at winning, they won't turn up at the ballpark or watch on TV. Second, it would cause a reshuffle of the AL where it would be difficult to get consensus (Toronto would be the likely beneficiary of a move to the Central, but there would likely be push back from KC or Minnesota on moving to the AL West).
  
• So HR's best shot for a MLB franchise was the Expos, because it was a NL East team looking to relocate. However, even then they would have been a small fish in a big pond, competing against NY, Atlanta, and Philly.

I'd love nothing more than for MLB to succeed in HR, but the economics aren't there to support it, especially compared to what other cities can offer. I see a team in San Antonio, Portland, or Sacramento before HR. It's interesting for me, because where I live it's the opposite. We have more than enough corporate support, but not enough people in the city.. yet.

I agree with your last point urbanlife my friend!!! Now moving on, someone from Calgary said Hampton Roads doesnt have the population nor corporate strength to support a MLB team. I cant say I agree with that statement but, respect it very much! I disagree with it humbly though. I feel that most of the locals in the metro are tired of being a farm system to major league teams and thats part of why ticket sells are lower than they could be.They feel why pay for a minor league team. I know they feel like VaRider and want a team to call there own. The luxury seats at harbor park arent expensive its just that charging for luxury seats for a minor league team is a hard sell in general when the highest price ticket at Harbor Park thats non luxury is $11!!! Most locals don't know its a luxury seating option, trust me I found out last week! Ironic its was mentioned today/yesterday!

1.7 million people isnt what I would call not enough people to support a MLB team. For a metro like Norfolks with the money(old) in Va Beach and Williamsburg and Portsmouth,heck all the metro we can get season tickets sold and of course regular priced tickets. This areas money that the residents have is under estimated. I have a number of friends and we all earn over six figures(well over)! Most like us are looking for that thing we can participate in like pro team!! I respect the fact the fellow member from Calgary thinks its a no,no for Norfolk with the MLB but, again think our area is under estimated! L.G.N.M

When in Downtown I think of when Norfolk was spread out more as a downtown and imagine it like that now without the slums of Norfolks past. What will be great for Norfolk is moving the citizens in the Downtown PJ's to another location(will probably need government help) and then plan out what to do with the new downtown building space. I say go with the attitude of expanding the financial center. Maybe add some residential things for more residents as well. Mostly add financial center space to expand the downtowns size like Richmonds is!!!! L.G.N.M

We will need a multimillionaire who is respected to get a team here or a group of millionaires to do so. Everything is political in business!!! Deals are done because those who see money bout to be made want a cut and when we get the correct money people in place we will end up with a team(see Oklahoma City Thunder)! Nothing against Oklahoma City, nice town and there Downtown is growing hence there financial center is showing growth. That said, who would move a team there without money being a deal closer. From a GREAT city like Seattle(Been there,GREAT CITY) to a city that had no pro team and is in the middle of the US in OK City?

I feel you VaRider, Norfolk PJ's are an issue. You must remember that your only 18 so to you and your generation its before your time and hard to understand why the PJ's are as they are. The PJ's were done after urban renewal and as you know Norfolk was the 1st city to take advantage of this! At the time, remember, at the time it was historical and agreed that what they were doing would improve Norfolk. Back in the 1950's and early 1960's the PJ's looked different and were new. Now when we view them it looks like a place were the poor live to close to the financial center. Thats not the fault of the dwellers of Tidewater Park,Youngs etc.!

The plan is an outdated one that houses them there. Look at the empty plaza were Popeyes and McDonalds resides! The plaza was a great idea as well when it was useful. Times and technology have made Norfolks decisions in the 1950's seem dumb but, with respect to those leaders at the time it was ground breaking and considered the best idea at the time for the cities low income folks. All my family come from there. I now am doing very well but, without Diggs Prk were I was brn and Youngs/Tidewater/Oakleaf etc.! I would have never made it. They need to develop a plan though to rid of those projects now, I AGREE VARIDER 10,000%! Its going to take time and money to come up with a plan to do so. Maybe a government grant but, the funds arent there in the local governments budget to do so. It may take what they got in the 1950's from the government to fix the issue.

The downtown would be a much better place with those PJ's gone because it could expand downtown. Previous to these PJ's downtown spread out that far. The PJ's shrunk the downtown space for sure. Norfolk made some mistakes based on looking back but, when they made the decisions they seemed like the right thing to do. This time better planning will be needed, lets just hope the city of Norfolk gets it!!! L.G.N.M