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Charlotte-Douglas Airport (CLT) Expansion


uptownliving

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Something I would like to see Jerry do is to expand the cargo portion of the business. It seems that with a large intermodal rail yard, 2 major interstates and eventually the Garden Parkway (regardless of your feelings about the project) plus 3 parallel runways, the airport would be a prime place for expanding air cargo. I would like to see a major cargo airline (i.e. ABX/DHL) and a smaller cargo airline (i.e. Kalitta, Atlas, Polar) to build air cargo hubs in Charlotte. Additionally, I would like to see more international cargo airlines such as Lufthansa Cargo, Cathay Pacific Cargo, Icelandair Cargo, Air France Cargo, China Cargo Airlines, and Cargolux operating out of CLT.

There really are not that many domestic hub and spoke cargo carriers anymore. Kalitta (American Intl Freight) had a station in CLT back in the ninetys, DHL did'nt last long here, Kitty hawk went tits up and Atlas/Polar basically offer ACMI service to other carriers . But it would be nice to see some intl carriers that run twice/thrice weekly service move their ops from ATL to CLT. The airport has no one on staff with cargo experience and will probably never hire anyone in a cargo capacity...Right now there are three cargo buildings sitting vacant on the property..I know JO was pretty pi$$ed when Fed Ex went up the road with their baby hub..

Edited by MikeNC
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I saw that Atlanta's new International terminal opened up this week (which is really very cool looking btw). I wonder how close Jerry Orr and Co. have been paying attention to that. While airlines have been cutting back on long haul flights, from an economic standpoint it's very important that International flights remain a focus. I know they can't do much until the new rental car facility is up and running since CLT's new International terminal will go where the current rental car facility is at. But it would be nice to see an emphasis put on it in the next 2 years.

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Merger or not it appears come the winter schedule that Clt-gig (rio)will be upgraded to an A332! I wonder if it will lead to a Clt-sju-clt being upgraded to a 332 to give the plane something to do other than sit around all day, Also this means that PTV's will be in economy class as well.

http://airlineforums...ipment-upgrade/

Edited by CltFlyer
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  • 2 weeks later...

The Terminal Eastside expansion opened today, along with Checkpoint E. I wonder what the plans are for that ticket counter space built, and if its already occupied. I seem to remember Insel Air not having a proper ticket counter. I'm heading to San Francisco later this week and I'll check it out.

Anyway, I was snooping around the Copa website the other day, and noticed under their destination page, there was a picture of Charlotte. With Copa joining the star alliance, and with a US codeshare, maybe Copa to the QC isn't out of the question.

frommers.copaair.com

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Well seeing they are down to one flight a week (hopefully to be brought back to 2 or more a week in the future. Do they really warrant a permanent space. Im hoping that this may open the door for British Airways, All Nippon AIrways, and Avianca to start flights to CLT. Gate space wasn't the only shortage at clt. With some more counter space it may open the door to consideration for service! Us can always put the clt-mad flight into B as well opening up space for Ba at D13 with a 763 in the afternoons.

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Well seeing they are down to one flight a week (hopefully to be brought back to 2 or more a week in the future. Do they really warrant a permanent space. Im hoping that this may open the door for British Airways, All Nippon AIrways, and Avianca to start flights to CLT. Gate space wasn't the only shortage at clt. With some more counter space it may open the door to consideration for service! Us can always put the clt-mad flight into B as well opening up space for Ba at D13 with a 763 in the afternoons.

IIRC the second weekly flight was axed for the slow season, I think it will be reinstated during winter. As much as I would love to see ANA and Avianca here, I think it all depends on whether US stays in *. Once DEN gets its NRT service next year, CLT will be the largest US airport without service to Asia. I do think Asia service will come, whether on US, ANA, JAL, or AA. I have heard numerous rumors that US may launch CLT-TLV once more A332s arrive.

While gate space was a problem, keep in mind that federal law requires that a gate be available to an airline that wants to serve a new city. The main problem was ticket space.

I think it is extremely likely that BA will resume service to CLT, the main question is when. I have my doubts regarding CLTs ability to successfully have two European carriers at once...even PHL struggles with that.

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IIRC the second weekly flight was axed for the slow season, I think it will be reinstated during winter. As much as I would love to see ANA and Avianca here, I think it all depends on whether US stays in *. Once DEN gets its NRT service next year, CLT will be the largest US airport without service to Asia. I do think Asia service will come, whether on US, ANA, JAL, or AA. I have heard numerous rumors that US may launch CLT-TLV once more A332s arrive.

While gate space was a problem, keep in mind that federal law requires that a gate be available to an airline that wants to serve a new city. The main problem was ticket space.

I think it is extremely likely that British Airways will resume service to CLT, the main question is when. I have my doubts regarding CLTs ability to successfully have two European carriers at once...even Philidelphia struggles with that.

Avianca is a bit of stretch and this is all assuming that they stay a single airline. and in star. British Airways could work with a flight to London-Heathrow since their is no longer star presence they could connect to India and Africa, which aren't avalible on Lufthansafrom Munich. All Nippon Airways is a quite a possiblity since their 787 only holds 158 thats not that many seats to fill a day. How many counters were even added with this new expansion i didn't see anything about new counters in the press release.

Population wise Miami will be the largest without service still

Better =P

Edited by CltFlyer
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I realize all the cool kids know these airport and airline codes, but would it be possible to maybe just say CLT-Rio or CLT-Tel Aviv for those of us who are interested in Charlotte Douglas' growth but don't pour over airline trade magazines?

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I realize all the cool kids know these airport and airline codes, but would it be possible to maybe just say CLT-Rio or CLT-Tel Aviv for those of us who are interested in Charlotte Douglas' growth but don't pour over airline trade magazines?

BAHAHAHAHAHA. I was thinking the exact same thing. Half the time I read these posts and I feel like I'm reading code or something...

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CLT-TLV? Wonder how long that would last, given that even ATL-TLV didn't make it too long. Granted, the economy tanking may have had something do with the timing. This flight would rely on a LOT of connections from PBI, FLL, MIA, LAX.

Apologies to jednc in advance :whistling:

Edited by kickazzz2000
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sorry jednc!

I think its funny when people say "the route didn't perform well on Delta from Atlanta, so it certainly won't perform well on US from Charlotte". This isn't always the case. Delta couldn't make Ottawa work from Atlanta, but US is somehow making it work from Charlotte.

I think Charlotte-Tel Aviv may have a shot. Charlotte is in the bible belt after all, tons of Christian groups go to Israel each year. Charlotte also has a small but growing Jewish population. Combined with Florida connections,if US markets it right, they might just be able to make it work.

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US Airways CEO, Doug Parker, was in Charlotte today as a part of his campaign for a US Airways/American Airlines merger. He mentioned that Charlotte's hub would actually grow in the event of a merger (something we've all speculated). Possibly more than 800 flights a day (an increase from US Airways's ~600 daily flights). Since American is strong in the mid-west and abroad, that would open up more cities that aren't currently served by US Airways. While I think it's great that the new American would have such a huge presence here, it would also be a good opportunity for some diversification of other airlines (yes you, JetBlue and Southwest).

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/07/19/3391947/us-airways-american-ceo-meet-to.html

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US Airways CEO, Doug Parker, was in Charlotte today as a part of his campaign for a US Airways/American Airlines merger. He mentioned that Charlotte's hub would actually grow in the event of a merger (something we've all speculated). Possibly more than 800 flights a day (an increase from US Airways's ~600 daily flights). Since American is strong in the mid-west and abroad, that would open up more cities that aren't currently served by US Airways. While I think it's great that the new American would have such a huge presence here, it would also be a good opportunity for some diversification of other airlines (yes you, JetBlue and Southwest).

http://www.charlotte...eo-meet-to.html

Hm. I thought US Airways was topping out at ~710 Daily Flights this summer. This merger may be *net plus for Charlotte air traffic. With, as they say, an increase of new cities on the Gulf Coast and Midwest. On the flip side, Rio D and the the other Latin destinations may be in jeopardy.

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Hm. I thought US Airways was topping out at ~710 Daily Flights this summer. This merger may be *net plus for Charlotte air traffic. With, as they say, an increase of new cities on the Gulf Coast and Midwest. On the flip side, Rio D and the the other Latin destinations may be in jeopardy.

I don't know why you would think anything in Latin America would be at risk. American is the largest US carrier to Latin and South America. It would only make sense to keep all CLT flying to boost an already highly lucrative market (and maintain market share out of DL and UA hands).
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I don't know why you would think anything in Latin America would be at risk. American is the largest US carrier to Latin and South America. It would only make sense to keep all CLT flying to boost an already highly lucrative market (and maintain market share out of DL and UA hands).

Consolidation, Synergies, Optimization, etc.

AMR could keep the same market share a merger with LCC would provide but still consolidate some routes to Miami. CLT/PHL/DCA provide a lot more feed for the AMR network. They could upgrade flights out of MIA to larger aircraft and shift some CLT Latin destinations to MIA. Not all of them (CLT is a huge, giant hub and very low cost. So obviously we'd keep a good bit of flights)

Charlottes strength is Traffic Flows within and To the Southeast.

Some cities are not worth US Airways opening up to just have flights to Charlotte. But some American Airlines Cities such as Oklahoma City already have service to several cities, so it would only make sense to add Charlotte. Dallas/Chicago/Miami could never do what Charlotte does. So our Hub status is fine.

US-1.png

That's why I think the CLT hub would grow, but perhaps lose some flights to Latin America/South America.

Edited by AirNostrumMAD
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I think that's very sound thinking, particularly when dealing with Doug Parker who I'm sure everyone knows ad naseum is a proponent of airline industry consolidation. It's interesting at least to me how US Airways post merger with AWE initially attempted to brand itself as a low cost carrier yet seemingly every move Parker has made or advocated would lead/has led to increased costs.

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Consolidation, Synergies, Optimization, etc.

AMR could keep the same market share a merger with LCC would provide but still consolidate some routes to Miami. CLT/PHL/DCA provide a lot more feed for the AMR network. They could upgrade flights out of MIA to larger aircraft and shift some CLT Latin destinations to MIA. Not all of them (CLT is a huge, giant hub and very low cost. So obviously we'd keep a good bit of flights)

Charlottes strength is Traffic Flows within and To the Southeast.

Some cities are not worth US Airways opening up to just have flights to Charlotte. But some American Airlines Cities such as Oklahoma City already have service to several cities, so it would only make sense to add Charlotte. Dallas/Chicago/Miami could never do what Charlotte does. So our Hub status is fine.

That's why I think the CLT hub would grow, but perhaps lose some flights to Latin America/South America.

So you think it would make more sense for someone to connect from Richmond or Raleigh or Norforlk, (or Asheville, Greenville Spartanburg, Charleston, Columbia, etc) to CLT and THEN make a second connection in MIA? Especially when MIA flights to Latin and South America are already packed? We're just going to have to agree to disagree. I think GIG (Rio de Janiero) and MEX will do just fine from CLT with a combined US/AA.
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So you think it would make more sense for someone to connect from Richmond or Raleigh or Norforlk, (or Asheville, Greenville Spartanburg, Charleston, Columbia, etc) to CLT and THEN make a second connection in MIA? Especially when MIA flights to Latin and South America are already packed? We're just going to have to agree to disagree. I think GIG (Rio de Janiero) and MEX will do just fine from CLT with a combined US/AA.

I was really just giving a "worst case scenario"

But that argument falls flat once you consider American offers nonstop to basically any destination that has demand to GIG. Richmond, Raleigh, Norfolk, Greensboro, and Charleston all have nonstop service to Miami on American.

Charlotte has - I believe - 3 or 2 people a day flying to Rio D... Miami has one stop connections to any significant place that has people actually going to Rio D.

Edit: But... If Charlotte can have service to Dublin, 2 daily flights to Frankfurt + Munich, Rome, and Madrid... I wouldn't be surprised to see GIG service stay... Madrid would probably be upgraded considering AMR has a "hub" there (JV with Iberia)

Edited by AirNostrumMAD
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