Charlotte-Douglas Airport (CLT) Expansion

[rugger62]

The Associated Press Stylebook [www.apstylebook.com] requires a login to submit a request to the Editor, which requires that you purchase a product. However, the do have a twitter page @APStylebook [www.twitter.com/APStylebook], so we could start a twitter campaign to get CHARLOTTE recognized as a city not needing an abbreviation. Hell, Oklahoma City is on the list... Otherwise it will be up to the fine journalists in the City to get it done.

[HopHead]

http://www.star-telegram.com/2013/01/27/4577863/is-american-us-airways-merger.html

 

A good read from today's Dallas Star-Telegram: 

The combined company would have hubs in eight markets: New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, Miami, Dallas/Fort Worth, Charlotte, Philadelphia and Phoenix.

Analysts expect capacity cuts at Phoenix, while DFW and Charlotte would see increased traffic.

"[Those two hubs] literally blanket Delta's megahub in Atlanta, and that opens up some interesting opportunities," Harteveldt said, adding that the combined entity could increase American's already strong presence in Latin America.

While a merger would certainly strengthen the domestic network, airline researcher Bill Swelbar believes that US Airways' hubs in Charlotte and Philadelphia are the jewels in a possible combination and would increase American's north-south traffic on the East Coast.  "Charlotte is a wonderful hub," Swelbar said. "It is profitable. It is efficient and US Airways has been growing that hub to where it is performing very, very well."

 

 

 

I think it's interesting that AA would retain 8 hubs. I believe that really speaks to just how massive this airline would become if the AA/US merger happens, as speculated. From Charlotte's standpoint, it will be great. We'll maintain a majority, if not more, of the direct routes that we have today as the article pretty much says. But from a consumer standpoint, this won't necessarily be a good thing. Less competition, higher prices. I do hope that that someone like Delta or United has the cajones to compete and give CLT more options, especially out west. I know that Delta added a CLT>Salt Lake City nonstop route within the last year. It would be good to see some more of that. I know people want more out of Southwest, but I honestly believe they are going to be less of a discount carrier and more of a main stream legacy type airline in the next 5 years. If you haven't heard, there is already talk about them joining the "fees" crowd soon with the "no baggage fees" service going away (per their CEO). Expect a lot of their perks to go by the way side. 

[WesleyHeightsWay]

OT question for those in the know...if a competitor of USAir offers a similar flight (same destination, just different connection), but at a significant discount...is there any way to get USAir come down on their price? 2 competitors are 20% less per ticket... Or almost $550 for a family of 4.

[sharkdawg]

Does anyone have any perspective on whether the combined US/AA would move forward with Star Alliance or One World.  I wonder if this would have any impact on the future of the airport.  Being committed to US Air, I frequently fly United when it is cheaper knowing that I can still get my points towards US Air status.  If US Air were to go with One World, Star Alliance would lose a stronghold in Charlotte.  This could cause United to grow it's presence in Charlotte and maybe even move business away from DC.

[ssh214]

^^^ This is something I have also though about. I think it could really change the dynamics of the airport quite a bit. I think we would see British Airways make a comeback to Charlotte, and we might lose Lufthansa (not sure about this given the amount of German business in the Charlotte area) because Lufthansa used the Star Alliance as a feeder from USAIRWAYS to their flights to Munich. I think regardless of the merger all of the airlines wanted to increase their presence in Charlotte anyways but they were always limited because all of the airlines other then USAIRWAYS and JetBlue were confined to Concourse A. But if they build the new terminal soon then the other airlines will increase their presence because of the cheap operating fees out of Charlotte, I can definitely see Delta use Charlotte as a relief airport for Atlanta given their close distance to each other as well as a big presence for SouthWest. I would also be interested to see if LAN Airlines starts service to Charlotte... Only time will tell with all of this though and everything I said above is purely speculation...

[15895]

^^^ This is something I have also though about. I think it could really change the dynamics of the airport quite a bit. I think we would see British Airways make a comeback to Charlotte, and we might lose Lufthansa (not sure about this given the amount of German business in the Charlotte area) because Lufthansa used the Star Alliance as a feeder from USAIRWAYS to their flights to Munich. I think regardless of the merger all of the airlines wanted to increase their presence in Charlotte anyways but they were always limited because all of the airlines other then USAIRWAYS and JetBlue were confined to Concourse A. But if they build the new terminal soon then the other airlines will increase their presence because of the cheap operating fees out of Charlotte, I can definitely see Delta use Charlotte as a relief airport for Atlanta given their close distance to each other as well as a big presence for SouthWest. I would also be interested to see if LAN Airlines starts service to Charlotte... Only time will tell with all of this though and everything I said above is purely speculation...

American would love for Delta to start a reliever hub at Charlotte. Even if US Airways were alone I'd bet they'd bank roll a new terminal for Delta to open up shop. They'd lose their heads in Charlotte so fast they mine as well go to centennial Park and make a bonfire out of money.

LAN will never operate to Charlotte unless it's a JV flight operated with AMR or US.

Lufthansa staying In Charlotte despite an AMR merger is the only plausible scenario in your post. US Airways has 2 flights to Germany from CLT. Lufthansa has 1. I'm not sure Lufthansa is willing to fight for Charlotte - Germany. It's a good possibility. I'd love for Lufty to stay.

As far as British Airways goes. British Airways And American are JV partners. Meaning they are 1 airline over the Atlantic. So it's a matter of who has the aircraft best suited for the flight and the best aircraft to spare.

The only airline you could expect to grow significantly at CLT is American and OneWorld members. American will be the 9,000 lb gorilla in the room at Charlotte.

Edited January 31, 2013 by AirNostrumMAD

[ssh214]

American would love for Delta to start a reliever hub at Charlotte. Even if US Airways were alone I'd bet they'd bank roll a new terminal for Delta to open up shop. They'd lose their heads in Charlotte so fast they mine as well go to centennial Park and make a bonfire out of money.

LAN will never operate to Charlotte unless it's a JV flight operated with AMR or US.

Lufthansa staying In Charlotte despite an AMR merger is the only plausible scenario in your post. US Airways has 2 flights to Germany from CLT. Lufthansa has 1. I'm not sure Lufthansa is willing to fight for Charlotte - Germany. It's a good possibility. I'd love for Lufty to stay.

As far as British Airways goes. British Airways And American are JV partners. Meaning they are 1 airline over the Atlantic. So it's a matter of who has the aircraft best suited for the flight and the best aircraft to spare.

The only airline you could expect to grow significantly at CLT is American and OneWorld members. American will be the 9,000 lb gorilla in the room at Charlotte.

Wait sorry I don't understand your analysis of the role of Delta. Why would American want that increase in competition?

 

In regards to British Airways and potentially LAN I can see a JV partnership for the Heathrow route and maybe Rio for LAN to relieve congestion from Miami...

 

And I really feel Lufthansa will continue it Munich routes because of both Seimens and BMW...

 

Again this is all just my opinion

[Miesian Corners]

Does anyone have any perspective on whether the combined US/AA would move forward with Star Alliance or One World.  I wonder if this would have any impact on the future of the airport.  Being committed to US Air, I frequently fly United when it is cheaper knowing that I can still get my points towards US Air status.  If US Air were to go with One World, Star Alliance would lose a stronghold in Charlotte.  This could cause United to grow it's presence in Charlotte and maybe even move business away from DC.

British Airways and American Airlines are tied together in One World.  With United's coverage of North America, Star has no need for US Airways (which is already treated like a red-headed step child by the alliance), much less a combined US/AA.  One World, however, does need a US/AA combo to make it lucrative.  One World's absence in the eastern USA has hindered it from being noticed much at all by travelers.

 

As for Lufthansa (LH), I suspect it will stay around.  BMW (literally) guarantees LH a certain amount of business class travelers by purchasing blocks of seats on an annual basis, whether they're filled or not.  Expect British Airways (BA) to show up again in CLT.  A US/AA merger would most likely bring an additional non-stop to London-Heathrow (LHR) from CLT.  I'd expect an morning departure on BA and an evening departure on AA. 

Edited January 31, 2013 by Miesian Corners

[kermit]

There have been rumors about this for a while but the CBJ reports that some 'unnamed lawmakers' want to change the way CLT is operated. The discussion centers around creating an airport authority to replace the current management structure. It sounds like the authority woudl create another layer of board supervision for Jerry Orr and his successors and make the airport more of a publicly-managed entity.

 

It sounds to me like the county would like to structure a way to pull more cash out of the airport.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/blog/queen_city_agenda/2013/01/lawmakers-looking-at-authority-for.html?ana=e_du_pub&s=article_du&ed=2013-01-31&page=all

[LKN704]

Regarding a hypothetical merger and Lufthansa, it's difficult to tell whether the Munich flight stays or goes. While yes, Lufthansa does have contracts on the flight (BMW, Siemens, Daimler, Continental Ag, etc..). It's hard to tell whether Lufthansa would choose to continue the flight after the contracts expire. While there is a significant amount of O/D (origin and destination) travel between Charlotte and Munich, I have my doubts about whether Lufthansa could profitably serve CLT without a codeshare.

 

What I believe will likely happen IMHO, is for Lufthansa to attempt to continue the Munich service, albeit with an A333 or an A343 year-round instead of a A346. The flight will operate at a reduce frequency than it does now. If that doesn't work, Lufthansa will probably launch Charlotte-Frankfurt will a A343 with a two-class cabin, as there is enough O/D traffic on CLT-FRA  for Lufthansa to make the flight work, and I'm willing to bet that some of those contracts, excluding BMW could transfer over. The Frankfurt flight will all depend on how the AA takes on Germany. AA has always been weak in Germany.

 

I'm 99.999% positive that "the world's favourite airline" will resume service to CLT once the merger is completed, likely with a three-class (Business, Premium Economy, Economy) 767-300 departing in the early evening. A CLT-Europe daylight will not work, only major cities on the lines of Boston and New York can make a flight like that work, simply because most business travelers would prefer to take a redeye to Europe.

 

As for LAN, probably never going to happen. Even if they did, they would fly to Lima, Buenos Aires, or Santiago. LAN does not have a hub in Rio, although their sister carrier, TAM does.

[kermit]

The Observer finally has a solid discussion of the mysterious airport authority issue.

 

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2013/02/05/3835670/push-for-airport-authority-worries.html

[CltFlyer]

Regarding a hypothetical merger and Lufthansa, it's difficult to tell whether the Munich flight stays or goes. While yes, Lufthansa does have contracts on the flight (BMW, Siemens, Daimler, Continental Ag, etc..). It's hard to tell whether Lufthansa would choose to continue the flight after the contracts expire. While there is a significant amount of O/D (origin and destination) travel between Charlotte and Munich, I have my doubts about whether Lufthansa could profitably serve CLT without a codeshare.

 

What I believe will likely happen IMHO, is for Lufthansa to attempt to continue the Munich service, albeit with an A333 or an A343 year-round instead of a A346. The flight will operate at a reduce frequency than it does now. If that doesn't work, Lufthansa will probably launch Charlotte-Frankfurt will a A343 with a two-class cabin, as there is enough O/D traffic on CLT-FRA  for Lufthansa to make the flight work, and I'm willing to bet that some of those contracts, excluding BMW could transfer over. The Frankfurt flight will all depend on how the AA takes on Germany. AA has always been weak in Germany.

 

I'm 99.999% positive that "the world's favourite airline" will resume service to CLT once the merger is completed, likely with a three-class (Business, Premium Economy, Economy) 767-300 departing in the early evening. A CLT-Europe daylight will not work, only major cities on the lines of Boston and New York can make a flight like that work, simply because most business travelers would prefer to take a redeye to Europe.

 

As for LAN, probably never going to happen. Even if they did, they would fly to Lima, Buenos Aires, or Santiago. LAN does not have a hub in Rio, although their sister carrier, TAM does.

Actually as of recents events in the airline industry, and AA annoucing further codeshares with Alaska Airlines, and the brand change in general.  I get the sense that perhaps the merger is falling through and won't happen.  I agree regardless that LH will maintain at least a 333 to Europe.  However, I also believe that one day merger or not "the worlds favorite airline." whom i can only assume is British Airways will return.   Except it will be with a 787 instead of a 763 as the 787s are being introduced into the fleet replacing the older 763s.  I would also expect an unmerged US to eventually start flights to Lima and Buenos Aires from Charlotte.

Edited February 6, 2013 by CltFlyer

[ssh214]

Actually as of recents events in the airline industry, and AA annoucing further codeshares with Alaska Airlines, and the brand change in general.  I get the sense that perhaps the merger is falling through and won't happen.  I agree regardless that LH will maintain at least a 333 to Europe.  However, I also believe that one day merger or not "the worlds favorite airline." whom i can only assume is British Airways will return.   Except it will be with a 787 instead of a 763 as the 787s are being introduced into the fleet replacing the older 763s.  I would also expect an unmerged US to eventually start flights to Lima and Buenos Aires from Charlotte.

I know US is posting profits on its own but can it really survive on its own? I hope it can because I think it would be better for the airline industry to keep the status quo but the possibility will always exist for United or Delta coming in and trying to merge with US which in that event would be devastating for Charlotte, American would be the only good bet for Charlotte to retain its hub status with any combination of merged airlines in my opinion...

[kermit]

I don't have a position on this but the observer is reporting:

 

A local television news station in Dallas is reporting that a US
Airways-American Airlines merger could be announced as early as Monday.
The Wall Street Journal is hedging a bit more, and writes that a merger
is in the final stages and could be completed "within the next week or
two."

 

but

 

the WSJ on the other hand, cautions that, "the merger negotiations remained
fluid and could fall apart...Significant points of the deal, including
how to split ownership of the airline and how to arrange board seats and
management ranks, remain unresolved."

 

http://mergerintheair.blogspot.com/2013/02/reporst-us-airways-american-merger.html

Edited February 7, 2013 by kermit

[Miesian Corners]

Actually as of recents events in the airline industry, and AA annoucing further codeshares with Alaska Airlines, and the brand change in general.  I get the sense that perhaps the merger is falling through and won't happen.  I agree regardless that LH will maintain at least a 333 to Europe.  However, I also believe that one day merger or not "the worlds favorite airline." whom i can only assume is British Airways will return.   Except it will be with a 787 instead of a 763 as the 787s are being introduced into the fleet replacing the older 763s.  I would also expect an unmerged US to eventually start flights to Lima and Buenos Aires from Charlotte.

 

 

Not sure how you came to the conclusion that the merger is falling through.  I just got back to CLT from a week in Dallas.  Look for an announcement on Monday.  Charlotte/Douglas International Airport will become the second largest hub for the world's largest airline.  Not too shabby for our little burg.

 

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-02-08/amr-us-airways-said-near-merger-deal-as-boards-to-vote.html

 

From the above Bloomberg link: "The boards of American Airlines parent AMR Corp. and US Airways Group Inc. are prepared to vote on a merger on Feb. 11 as executives and advisers work on final terms this weekend, people familiar with the matter said. The sides have agreed that AMR’s bankruptcy creditors would get 72 percent of the equity in the new carrier, with 28 percent for US Airways shareholders, said two of the people, who asked not to be identified because the talks are private. US Airways Chief Executive Officer Doug Parker will run the airline as AMR CEO Tom Horton becomes non-executive chairman, the person said.

Edited February 9, 2013 by Miesian Corners

[RiverwoodCLT]

 

New american Airlines logo

[nonillogical]

 

New american Airlines logo

See a couple of pages back for our analysis of the new logo and my subsequent rants about re-branding backlashes

[Niner National]

I really like the look of their new planes.

[ah59396]

^Yeah, I think they look awesome.  They should put a picture of Toby Keith's face on the front of the plane too.  Or an eagle.  Even though they are the same thing.

[RVA2CLT]

I am doing my duty as a patriotic American! I'm sacrificing a goat to Toby Keith.

Toby Keith doesn't want to be fed. Toby Keith wants to hunt!

[HopHead]

The boards of both American and US Airways are set to meet on Wednesday to consider the merger per the WSJ: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324196204578298021750676316.html

 

Under the terms of the agreement Doug Parker, who as long been a big proponent of the CLT airport, would become the CEO. Obviously a positive thing here. 

[rjp212]

Looks like they've agreed to the merger...

 

http://www.wcnc.com/news/local/Report-US-Airways-American-airlines-agree-on-merger-191078301.html

[tozmervo]

With all due respect to WCNC, I didn't buy it until I saw it on Bloomberg

 

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-02-13/amr-us-airways-said-to-agree-on-terms-for-merger.html

[15895]

I'd say the majority of analyst believe Charlotte would maintain the status quo, A significant amount thinks Charlotte will be reduced, and a couple believe Charlotte could grow. I'm ready to get this over with and see the outcome and hope for the best!

 

 

I wonder if we can get any office jobs out of this merger when AMR/US consolidate office space.

[southslider]

If US Airways stayed independent, the smallest legacy carrier would risk its own dissolvency, and thereby risk CLT.  If not merging with American, then US Airways could merge with Delta or United, neither of which would need CLT as a hub.  So given the options, an American merger is definitely the least of evils, even if it leads to fewer flights.

Edited February 13, 2013 by southslider