[moonshield]

Copper, on Nov 11 2006, 10:03 AM, said:

Now that's a road.

[nowensone]

jpl02, on Feb 16 2006, 04:06 PM, said:

About the only thing in the states close to the 401 is Atlanta's Downtown Connector, or (when it's finished), I-10 in Houston from 610 to Katy. For a roadgeek like me, the 401 is a wet dream

Houston actually doesn't have very wide roadways, the stretch you reference above is only 3 lanes per side with an HOV lane in the center. They are widening it now, but is not complete and will not be more than 5 lanes per side if that even (varies due to pre-existing structures and interchanges). Unless anything has changed recently, US59 is the widest at 5 lanes from downtown out to Beltway 8 (in both directions).

Copper, on Nov 11 2006, 10:03 AM, said:

I was going to argue that certain stretches of interstate in ATL and LA would seem to rival 401, until you posted this shot, I'm convinced now it is the "winner". Incidentally, was panning around via google maps (posted earlier), looks like the sprawl off of 401 is more dense and has better connectedness than you see in the States.

This post has been edited by nowensone: 14 November 2006 - 11:49 AM

[GRDadof3]

nowensone, on Nov 14 2006, 12:48 PM, said:

I was going to argue that certain stretches of interstate in ATL and LA would seem to rival 401, until you posted this shot, I'm convinced now it is the "winner". Incidentally, was panning around via google maps (posted earlier), looks like the sprawl off of 401 is more dense and has better connectedness than you see in the States.

It's interesting too that Toronto's suburbs just "end", with rural beyond. Not a lot of exurban development. You can really notice it here along 407 on Google maps. And in THIS shot too just North of the previous area. I wonder if Toronto has an urban growth boundary?

Toronto's suburban density is unbelievable, with high-rise apartments/condos dotting the skyline everywhere you look.

Stupid question: When you're coming into Toronto on 401 from Michigan, off to the East is almost a mountainous area with a large shelf/cliff of what looks like sandstone or something. Anyone know what that is?

[johnathan]

GRDadof3, on Nov 14 2006, 04:43 PM, said:

It's interesting too that Toronto's suburbs just "end", with rural beyond. Not a lot of exurban development. You can really notice it here along 407 on Google maps. And in THIS shot too just North of the previous area. I wonder if Toronto has an urban growth boundary?

Toronto's suburban density is unbelievable, with high-rise apartments/condos dotting the skyline everywhere you look.

Stupid question: When you're coming into Toronto on 401 from Michigan, off to the East is almost a mountainous area with a large shelf/cliff of what looks like sandstone or something. Anyone know what that is?

Mountains:
The mountainous area is a world heritage site, called the "Niagara Escarpment." It runs roughly from Niagara Falls to Tobermory on the Bruce Peninsula. The BP is the land that separates Georgian Bay from Lake Huron. It's an ancient limestone coral reef when the area was covered by the great sea that covered this area of North America. A great area to view is from the 401 as it splits a bit in that area, or from Hamilton and along the QEW.

Suburban Density:
It's neat to hear different ideas about density. I haven't been to many cities but I never considered Toronto to be particularly dense except in clustered areas, either by highways, the downtown core, and suburb cores like in North York (401/Yonge), Scarborough (401/McCowan), Missisauga (403/10(Hurontario)) and others. In places like Mississauga (the outer area of which you specified in your first link to google maps) and Brampton (the second link) its mostly single low or medium density houses and townhouses. From what I can tell most building is done within the road grid system: So if a housing development goes up, then all 5 sq. kms ---- 'square' ---- are taken up. The other reason, I suspect, has to do with infrastructure... development tends to occur in areas that follow 400-series highways. There is a recently inacted no-development area in most part called the Oak Ridges Moraine which encircles the GTA to which you can best see on Yonge St. in northern Richmond Hill (south of Aurora).

Commercialism:
There are however a TON of malls and outlet plazas (not really outlets in my understanding and/or experience of the American sense) which is something I found hard to find when I visited places like Boston or New York state cities. Fast food outlets also seem to be prolific.

[waccamatt]

jpl02, on Feb 16 2006, 04:06 PM, said:

About the only thing in the states close to the 401 is Atlanta's Downtown Connector, or (when it's finished), I-10 in Houston from 610 to Katy. For a roadgeek like me, the 401 is a wet dream

It looks like most of the road is asphalt judging from the photos. My question is why it wasn't built with concrete as opposed to asphalt, due to the harsh winters and concrete lasting longer and weathering the cold much better.

What about the New Jersey Turnpike? It is 12 lanes wih express and local lanes from New Brunswick to the George Washington Bridge - a distance of about 40 miles or so.

[GRDadof3]

johnathan, on Nov 21 2006, 08:13 PM, said:

Mountains:
The mountainous area is a world heritage site, called the "Niagara Escarpment." It runs roughly from Niagara Falls to Tobermory on the Bruce Peninsula. The BP is the land that separates Georgian Bay from Lake Huron. It's an ancient limestone coral reef when the area was covered by the great sea that covered this area of North America. A great area to view is from the 401 as it splits a bit in that area, or from Hamilton and along the QEW.

Suburban Density:
It's neat to hear different ideas about density. I haven't been to many cities but I never considered Toronto to be particularly dense except in clustered areas, either by highways, the downtown core, and suburb cores like in North York (401/Yonge), Scarborough (401/McCowan), Missisauga (403/10(Hurontario)) and others. In places like Mississauga (the outer area of which you specified in your first link to google maps) and Brampton (the second link) its mostly single low or medium density houses and townhouses. From what I can tell most building is done within the road grid system: So if a housing development goes up, then all 5 sq. kms ---- 'square' ---- are taken up. The other reason, I suspect, has to do with infrastructure... development tends to occur in areas that follow 400-series highways. There is a recently inacted no-development area in most part called the Oak Ridges Moraine which encircles the GTA to which you can best see on Yonge St. in northern Richmond Hill (south of Aurora).

Commercialism:
There are however a TON of malls and outlet plazas (not really outlets in my understanding and/or experience of the American sense) which is something I found hard to find when I visited places like Boston or New York state cities. Fast food outlets also seem to be prolific.

Thanks for the info johnathan! Shortly after I posted that, I found my answer. In fact, the Niagara Escarpment extends all the way around the Upper Peninsula of Michigan into Wisconsin. It's just not as visible in Northern Michigan. Learn something new every day.

[bigboyz05]

Does anyone know what is the busiest freeway in the world?

[johnathan]

bigboyz05, on Nov 29 2006, 03:16 PM, said:

Does anyone know what is the busiest freeway in the world?

Wikipedia entrants say it is the 401, particularly in the Weston-400 Stretch through Toronto with AADT of 425,000 and highest volume on in 2005 of 607,800 in one day! (compared with 510,000 in 2003).

As a sidenote, it is interesting that traffic volumes are increasing still so much on the 401 since the 407 built north to parallel the 401 through Toronto (and unfortunately a toll road) was built with the goal of relieving pressure from the 401, and instead serves more as a regional highway than a replacement, with its own high avg. volumes of around 200,000 average daily and 4 to 6 lanes through a 20km stretch just north of Toronto, not including interchange ramps.

[ScottydaViking]

I will be moving from Montreal to Toronto this summer, and am wondering if anyone knows which days are the 'truck days' where the heavy truck traffic is highest along the 401. I'd like to work my moving date around that!
Thanks!
~S.

[paholler]

How did this come about? Was the 401 planned to be this wide? or did the provincial government acquire lots of property to add lanes upon lanes as they deemed necessary?

[johnathan]

ScottydaViking, on Mar 19 2007, 06:39 AM, said:

I will be moving from Montreal to Toronto this summer, and am wondering if anyone knows which days are the 'truck days' where the heavy truck traffic is highest along the 401. I'd like to work my moving date around that!
Thanks!
~S.

Trucks aren't allowed to be on provincial highways on the weekend (though a few creep through anyway) so the best time is on Sat/Sun.

The problem with this however is that if you are moving on a Sun. during the Summer, you'd rather go during the week when there aren't all the cottage commuters returning to Toronto.

Another thing to consider: Rush Hour in Toronto: 6:00 - 9:30 am, 2:30 - 6:30 pm. On Fridays, afternoon rush hour is from 1:00pm on to at least 8:00pm, depending on the highway you are on, and is especially consistent during the Summer. These hours are subjective.

[johnathan]

paholler, on Mar 20 2007, 11:13 PM, said:

How did this come about? Was the 401 planned to be this wide? or did the provincial government acquire lots of property to add lanes upon lanes as they deemed necessary?

This is all bits and pieces of information I've read so please take it with a grain of salt, however:
- originally built with what was considered to be an excessive 300 ft. right of way to allow for growth and was built with a mere 2 lanes each way when the 401 was at that time 'in the boonies'.
- most highway right of ways for highways to be built in the 1970's and in the future were established in the 70's.
- the 407 running parallel to the 401 was one such highway but was scrapped in favour of putting in place the collector/express system on the 401. this was probably a good move as it fostered growth within metro toronto (now just 'Toronto') that may have earlier moved to the suburbs (and is now), delaying possible city decay.
- parts of the 401 however weren't planned well and lead to excessive bottlenecks, most notably a section roughly between the 400 and 427, part of which is so narrow that the collector/express system isn't in place through that stretch.

[punchbuggy]

GRDadof3, on Nov 14 2006, 03:43 PM, said:

It's interesting too that Toronto's suburbs just "end", with rural beyond. Not a lot of exurban development. You can really notice it here along 407 on Google maps. And in THIS shot too just North of the previous area. I wonder if Toronto has an urban growth boundary?

Toronto's suburban density is unbelievable, with high-rise apartments/condos dotting the skyline everywhere you look.

Stupid question: When you're coming into Toronto on 401 from Michigan, off to the East is almost a mountainous area with a large shelf/cliff of what looks like sandstone or something. Anyone know what that is?

As someone mentioned, the greenbelt is now in place to prevent exurb growth from the suburbs (Mississauga, Brampton, Markham etc) The law restricts growth to within Toronto proper and those suburbs in designated hub zones intended to foster higher density growth and prevent any development in the greenbelt. I personally think it is working as right now most development, aside from the few open fields that are left, are condo redevelopments of brownfields/strip malls. Even in suburbs such as Markham up north by highway 407 theyre local throughway, highway 7, has condos for at least a couple of kilometres along its path. Suburbs now realize too that they must limit growth as they also intend to establish a worthwhile transit system in the long run (tram, eventually subway lines that connect to toronto) as only a bus rapid transit system exists currently. It is very intersting to see huge developements sprouting up in the "downtowns" of each of these cities and along any public transportation route.

I read something intersting recently too but don't know where in the entire GTA by 2009 there will be a doubling of buildings above 200ft (300?). By then all the fare systems of Toronto proper and the suburbs will be put under a single fare system.

[punchbuggy]

some of you might find this site a tad intersting.

http://www.mto.gov.o...era/camhome.htm

it is the ministry's site that tracks traffic conditions on the 401 in toronto (live camera pictures).

[punchbuggy]

punchbuggy, on Jun 2 2007, 12:34 PM, said:

some of you might find this site a tad intersting.

http://www.mto.gov.o...era/camhome.htm

it is the ministry's site that tracks traffic conditions on the 401 in toronto (live camera pictures).

typical, sigh. http://www.flickr.co...2...6587&size=o


Looking west I believe. The buildings on top right are the southern part of North York city centre (a former city in its own right but now part of Toronto)

As you can see people can't resist looking at an accident stopping traffic both ways.

[MrHomz]

johnathan, on Apr 1 2007, 04:37 AM, said:

Trucks aren't allowed to be on provincial highways on the weekend (though a few creep through anyway) so the best time is on Sat/Sun.

The problem with this however is that if you are moving on a Sun. during the Summer, you'd rather go during the week when there aren't all the cottage commuters returning to Toronto.

Another thing to consider: Rush Hour in Toronto: 6:00 - 9:30 am, 2:30 - 6:30 pm. On Fridays, afternoon rush hour is from 1:00pm on to at least 8:00pm, depending on the highway you are on, and is especially consistent during the Summer. These hours are subjective.

I work for a transportation company...and I have yet to be informed of trucks not being permitted to travel down provincial highways on weekends. In fact you will see the MTO scales open more often on a Saturday than on a Thursday or any day through the week - it's simply too busy as of late to have them open in peak travel areas at peak times or else it would cause even more backups. The weekend thing I am positive is more of an urban legend than anything. Those Flying J Truck stops still get alot of business on weekends!

[MrHomz]

moonshield, on Nov 11 2006, 08:47 PM, said:

Now that's a road.

Yep it sure is...and to think - that very stretch of road you see there was only 6 lanes total (3 each direction) in 1986 before they finished the extension of the express/collector setup. And now with 18 of them, 20 years later, they're just as congested as the old 6 were.

When Highway 407 was opened in 1999, it was free for the first couple months or so. Even then you could rip down there on a Friday afternoon without stopping. And you did see relief on the 401. Now in 2007 (and higher toll rates than pretty much any highway in North America), it's backed up at rush hour, typically between the 400/Jane St. area to near the 410. AND they have widened it in spots. It seems that in the GTA once a highway is built it is pretty much outgrown in just a few short years!

The 401 will undoubtedly never be relieved of congestion through the GTA. It's bad enough now that on a long weekend, particularly Victoria Day weekend, it's not uncommon to see traffic on the 401 traveling at 50-60km/h for several kilometres east of the GTA. I live 160km east of there, and have seen bumper-to-bumper traffic from here through to Oshawa/Whitby the entire stretch. Let's hope that will decrease once they extend the 407 to Highway 35/115.

[MrHomz]

urbanjames, on Feb 16 2006, 05:12 PM, said:

not sure why exactly... but as far as i know, no canadian roads are concrete... it was always weird as a kid driving across the border because the interstates were mainly concrete...

Most Canadian roads are asphalt...but the original section of Highway 407 before its first expansion is concrete, as well as the section of Highway 427 from just south of the entrance from Highway 401 down to its end at the QEW/Gardiner Expwy is fully concrete.

And most recently, Highway 401 west of Tilbury to around the Puce Road exit in Essex has been widened and is now concrete.

[johnathan]

MrHomz, on Jun 6 2007, 11:39 PM, said:

I work for a transportation company...and I have yet to be informed of trucks not being permitted to travel down provincial highways on weekends. In fact you will see the MTO scales open more often on a Saturday than on a Thursday or any day through the week - it's simply too busy as of late to have them open in peak travel areas at peak times or else it would cause even more backups. The weekend thing I am positive is more of an urban legend than anything. Those Flying J Truck stops still get alot of business on weekends!

You are partially correct; I had taken this too far to think it included the whole weekend, though some restrictions remain:
Quoted from http://www.mto.gov.o...de.htm#weekend:

Saturdays and Sundays:
Moves Allowed

Oversize/overweight moves are allowed all day Saturday and Sunday for dimensions that do not exceed the following dimensions:

* width of 3.70 m on two lane highways and 3.85 m on multi-lane highways
* length no greater than 25 m for combination vehicles and 12. 5 m for single vehicles
* height maximum 4.26 m
* weight no greater than 63,500 kg.

Sunday Restrictions in Summer Months

Sunday travel is not permitted between noon and midnight during the restricted summer months of June, July, August (Southern Ontario) and July and August (Northern Ontario) for any oversize/overweight vehicles and/or loads.


Fridays:
Moves Allowed

Overdimensional moves are allowed all day for all dimensions except during summer restrictions.
Friday Restrictions in Summer Months

Travel is not permitted between 3:00 pm and midnight during the restricted summers months of June, July, August (Southern Ontario) and July and August (Northern Ontario) for any oversize/overweight vehicles and/or loads.
Exceptions

Travel between 3:00 pm and midnight on Fridays during summer restrictions may be permitted for vehicles and/or loads with heights up to, and including, 4.26 m and overall weight not exceeding 63,500 kg.

[maddawg5]

Toronto does not represent Canada. So doesn't the 401. It's sure to be the world's busiest

highway because I was there on it last night at 2:00 AM Eastern Time and traffic was still very bad like it was morning rush

hour.

This post has been edited by maddawg5: 19 August 2007 - 10:49 PM