Tanger Outlet Mall to build 80-store center in Grand Rapids suburb

[egrguy]

Dad:

Snarkyism? Really? So disappointed if so. Please know that no excitement was inferred in my related earlier post. Simply stating a trueism about that corridor. Peace, respect and good dialogue to you nonetheless . . . .

It did sound like excitement when you mentioned the "incredible opportunities" , however, I see it as a positive for the GR area as a whole.

To be honest, I would have been thrilled to see it go in on 28th St between Buchanan an division where there's been that empty lot for a long time. I assume that was unattractive due to its size and location (vs being roughly between GR/Kzoo)

[GRDadof3]

Dad:

 

Snarkyism?  Really?  So disappointed if so.  Please know that no excitement was inferred in my related earlier post.  Simply stating a trueism about that corridor.  Peace, respect and good dialogue to you nonetheless . . . .

 

 

Of course it was snarky. I can't envision anything along that corridor that will be noteworthy. More industrial parks, more motels, more Burger Kings? And even if it was a grandiose development project, it's way the hell down 131 from most of Grand Rapids. Prime candidate for the county's PDR program if you ask me.

[wmrharris]

It did sound like excitement when you mentioned the "incredible opportunities" , however, I see it as a positive for the GR area as a whole.

To be honest, I would have been thrilled to see it go in on 28th St between Buchanan an division where there's been that empty lot for a long time. I assume that was unattractive due to its size and location (vs being roughly between GR/Kzoo)

The primary reason for the siting would be the M-6. That puts within easy drive of the Holland and esp. eastern Ottawa County. And note, it's still in Kent County, so nowhere near the half point with Kalamazoo, which itself seems to be developing along the I-94 axis.

[metrogrkid]

Of course it was snarky. I can't envision anything along that corridor that will be noteworthy. More industrial parks, more motels, more Burger Kings? And even if it was a grandiose development project, it's way the hell down 131 from most of Grand Rapids. Prime candidate for the county's PDR program if you ask me.

 

Urbanplanet-GR Moderator (GRDadof3):

 

As a member of UP-GR of long standing who has ever been respectful AND thoughtful in my contributions to our discourse of the changing fortunes and destiny of Metro GR's future, I assure you that I will NEVER descend to the baseness and impropriety of being "snarky" with another who has a thought different from mine.

 

With you being a key founder of this popular GR interface and one who has shown himself in the past to not take kindly to less-than-upright responses and behavior, I expect you to elevate and be a model of rigorous debate and gentlemanly discourse.  I have admitted before that I have witnessed you being so in the past.  Your return to that impressive and just station is needed now.  I know you can get past self and do it for our greater collective good.

 

In all due respect,

 

-Metrogrkid

 UP-GR Steward

[joeDowntown]

Nothing like outer ring development to make people snarky/feisty. Honestly, I have never understood the negativity toward these developments on the outer edge (especially when supply and demand is there). 

 

1) Gun Lake Casino and Tanger Outlets are perfectly situated to be within a suitable driving distance for many - they are targeting our region, not just GR.

2) I'm thankful that downtown GR has neither a giant Outlet mall OR a Casino. :)

 

I agree with Metrogrkid, this is probably going to be a huge growth corridor. Like it or not, I think you'll see a lot of development in the next 5 years from 84th street all the way to Wayland.

 

Joe

[GRDadof3]

Urbanplanet-GR Moderator (GRDadof3):

 

As a member of UP-GR of long standing who has ever been respectful AND thoughtful in my contributions to our discourse of the changing fortunes and destiny of Metro GR's future, I assure you that I will NEVER descend to the baseness and impropriety of being "snarky" with another who has a thought different from mine.

 

With you being a key founder of this popular GR interface and one who has shown himself in the past to not take kindly to less-than-upright responses and behavior, I expect you to elevate and be a model of rigorous debate and gentlemanly discourse.  I have admitted before that I have witnessed you being so in the past.  Your return to that impressive and just station is needed now.  I know you can get past self and do it for our greater collective good.

 

In all due respect,

 

-Metrogrkid

 UP-GR Steward

 

 

 

Nothing like outer ring development to make people snarky/feisty. Honestly, I have never understood the negativity toward these developments on the outer edge (especially when supply and demand is there). 

 

1) Gun Lake Casino and Tanger Outlets are perfectly situated to be within a suitable driving distance for many - they are targeting our region, not just GR.

2) I'm thankful that downtown GR has neither a giant Outlet mall OR a Casino. :)

 

I agree with Metrogrkid, this is probably going to be a huge growth corridor. Like it or not, I think you'll see a lot of development in the next 5 years from 84th street all the way to Wayland.

 

Joe

 

I'm not disputing that it will be developed Joe, and I'm not against it. I'm just saying to get excited about it seems silly at best. Do people really think it will be anything different than say, I-96 around Howell? Or Brighton? I would say of all of the GR metro area, the 131 corridor on the South end from 28th to 84th is probably the worst looking. Tractor supply stores, crane companies, trucking warehouses, yeeuck. That's also exemplified by the sheer lack of any good housing stock for at least a mile on either side of said corridor.

 

I also agree that a Tanger outlet or a casino downtown wouldn't be great. So there I can agree: development will happen in that corridor, same old same old if (when) it does.

 

And metrogrkid, you used the words "the possibilities are incredible for this area." Please explain if your post was not one of jubilee?

[wmrharris]

Nothing like outer ring development to make people snarky/feisty. Honestly, I have never understood the negativity toward these developments on the outer edge (especially when supply and demand is there). 

 

1) Gun Lake Casino and Tanger Outlets are perfectly situated to be within a suitable driving distance for many - they are targeting our region, not just GR.

2) I'm thankful that downtown GR has neither a giant Outlet mall OR a Casino. :)

 

I agree with Metrogrkid, this is probably going to be a huge growth corridor. Like it or not, I think you'll see a lot of development in the next 5 years from 84th street all the way to Wayland.

 

Joe

In a broader perspective, the growth is primarily that of including Allegan and the northern half of Barry County in the metro region. Wayland and Gun Lake belong to Grand Rapids, as does Middleville. The commercial development may pull development north in Kalamazoo County, but I see far more of a push into Texas Township and Mattawan to the west. The development geometries don't match. Now were there a substantial office park development along the 131 corridor, that would create some gravitation for Kalamazoo, but I don't see it.

[metrogrkid]

. . . . And metrogrkid, you used the words "the possibilities are incredible for this area." Please explain if your post was not one of jubilee?

 

GRDadof3 :

 

I let you know exactly that in the bolded/italicized/red text from my earlier statement reposted below:

 

 

************************************************************************************************************************************

metrogrkid, on 06 Oct 2013 - 2:48 PM, said:

. . . . Snarkyism? Really? So disappointed if so. Please know that no excitement was inferred in my related earlier post. Simply stating a trueism about that corridor. Peace, respect and good dialogue to you nonetheless . . . .

 

************************************************************************************************************************************

 

Regardless of any perceived excitement or true lack thereof pertaining to the corridor in discussion, my original statement is still my position and view on the potential for infill development on/within it - especially from the perspective of my urban planning background.  Joe Downtown - in his consistently respectful, fair, even-handed and open-minded commentary - stated exactly what I see coming for that stretch: good or bad, MUCH more development.  That's it.  Nothing more. 

 

As this forum IS viewed surreptitiously by those in a position to actually act on developing this corridor, it would be proactive on our part to at least operate on the assumption that WE have a cache of very good ideas (which we do and always have) and start stating them here.  If you would rather not see more Caterpillar/Tractor Supply/Brighton-Howell area cloning (as I MOST CERTAINLY do not), then spill some much more impactful/preferred alternatives (I know you have some since you've stated good ideas in abundance in the past).

 

We have an ongoing continuum of best-case design scenario options for the ENTIRE Metro GR area (GR-Muskegon-Holland Metro Triplex) to steward, shepherd and conserve.  Let's remain focused on that and on maintaining the civil, creative, solution-producing sense of community as is usually the norm around here.

 

Toward keeping it moving with dignity and grace . . . . ,

 

Metrogrkid

[GRDadof3]

GRDadof3 :

 

I let you know exactly that in the bolded/italicized/red text from my earlier statement reposted below:

 

 

************************************************************************************************************************************

metrogrkid, on 06 Oct 2013 - 2:48 PM, said:

. . . . Snarkyism? Really? So disappointed if so. Please know that no excitement was inferred in my related earlier post. Simply stating a trueism about that corridor. Peace, respect and good dialogue to you nonetheless . . . .

 

************************************************************************************************************************************

 

Regardless of any perceived excitement or true lack thereof pertaining to the corridor in discussion, my original statement is still my position and view on the potential for infill development on/within it - especially from the perspective of my urban planning background.  Joe Downtown - in his consistently respectful, fair, even-handed and open-minded commentary - stated exactly what I see coming for that stretch: good or bad, MUCH more development.  That's it.  Nothing more. 

 

As this forum IS viewed surreptitiously by those in a position to actually act on developing this corridor, it would be proactive on our part to at least operate on the assumption that WE have a cache of very good ideas (which we do and always have) and start stating them here.  If you would rather not see more Caterpillar/Tractor Supply/Brighton-Howell area cloning (as I MOST CERTAINLY do not), then spill some much more impactful/preferred alternatives (I know you have some since you've stated good ideas in abundance in the past).

 

We have an ongoing continuum of best-case design scenario options for the ENTIRE Metro GR area (GR-Muskegon-Holland Metro Triplex) to steward, shepherd and conserve.  Let's remain focused on that and on maintaining the civil, creative, solution-producing sense of community as is usually the norm around here.

 

Toward keeping it moving with dignity and grace . . . . ,

 

Metrogrkid

 

 

I already did share a good idea for the rest of that corridor, make it part of the PDR program. Encourage those businesses considering building out there to build in the city of Grand Rapids or the city of Wyoming (not downtown, perhaps the old GM site for one) where unemployment rates are hovering in the near 20%+, and are readily accessible to mass transit and the underserved populations in those areas who have a hard time getting out to employers way out in the sticks.

 

HTH

 

Peace.

[jonathan.jam]

I completely agree! I think the boundary for new industrial and large-scale commercial growth should be set at 92nd Street. Ultimately, Tanger will make a good addition to the area, even if it is sprawl and auto-oriented in nature. However, this doesn't mean that the rest of area should be allowed to sprawl. I wouldn't be surprised if this ends up looking like M-6 and Kalamazoo Ave in Gaines Township. I wish it wouldn't, and I wish Byron Township would enact measures to prevent it....but it probably won't.

 

On a somewhat side note: The old interurban between Grand Rapids and Kalamazoo used to stop at Byron Center Road (84th Street) between US-131 and Division...Imagine if the interurban was still around; the area could have been a potentially pretty cool TOD area.

[metrogrkid]

I already did share a good idea for the rest of that corridor, make it part of the PDR program. Encourage those businesses considering building out there to build in the city of Grand Rapids or the city of Wyoming (not downtown, perhaps the old GM site for one) where unemployment rates are hovering in the near 20%+, and are readily accessible to mass transit and the underserved populations in those areas who have a hard time getting out to employers way out in the sticks.

 

HTH

 

Peace.

 

See?  That's a good start (the old GM-36th Street site likewise to me would have been a much better infill option on that corridor - albeit a more northern extension).  I knew you could do it (even with the "HTH" insiderography)! 

 

Peace, indeed?

[MJLO]

http://www.mlive.com/byron-center/index.ssf/2013/12/businesses_adjacent_to_propose.html#incart_river

 

Plans temporarily put on hold,  residents have some concerns.  It doesn't sound real NIMBY from what I can tell.  Looks like they just want details hammered out.

[Veloise]

http://www.mlive.com/byron-center/index.ssf/2013/12/businesses_adjacent_to_propose.html#incart_river

 

Plans temporarily put on hold,  residents have some concerns.  It doesn't sound real NIMBY from what I can tell.  Looks like they just want details hammered out.

Noticing of adjacent property owners is state law (and urban planning 101). Wonder who's running that office.

[GR8scott]

this could be a good thing and make it even higher quality building standards. Ever driven by the backside of the one in Howell on i96? it leaves a lot to be desired. One thing about suburban GR area in comparison to even the places in suburban Detroit is there a lot of "cheap" looking chains and residential new builds that could be a lot more aesthetically pleasing, brick all the way around not just a facade, hidden electrical, landscaping, ect. 

[egrguy]

http://www.mlive.com/business/west-michigan/index.ssf/2013/12/tanger_outlet_mall_gets_final.html#incart_river

Appears that the final vote is a mere formality as the is moving forward.

[MJLO]

Everything I keep hearing on the news is that it will be bigger and nicer than the Howell developement.  I can only imagine the infill this will bring to 84th St/131 area,  It could get pretty commercial pretty quick. 

[gvsusean]

would it have been feasible to put it into that large warehouse near the bus station? like a large indoor outlet mall? that wouldve been cool....Or possibly in all the vacant land of NoMo (MoNo?)

[GRDadof3]

would it have been feasible to put it into that large warehouse near the bus station? like a large indoor outlet mall? that wouldve been cool....Or possibly in all the vacant land of NoMo (MoNo?)

What vacant land is there in Monroe North? If you mean the lots just North of the highway, they're all mainly owned by MSU now. I'll be one to say that a mall of this scale downtown would not be a good fit. Major retailers like Coach, Polo, H&M prefer lots of parking in a market like Grand Rapids. They're no dummies (they know most people in small to mid-sized markets drive to shop).

I was chatting with a commercial broker friend and he was say saying this Tanger Center is going to be a pretty big deal. 80 stores is essentially 80% the size of either Woodland or Rivertown, minus the anchors (which aren't that spectacular at either mall anyway). Macy's mens department is starting to look like Walmart with all the clearance racks.

It will be interesting to see what happens with Rivertown. Ever since General Growth filed for bankruptcy, it really seems to have gone to shit (in my opinion), and its 12 year old (?) decor is already looking dated. People who are on the East side of the city (Forest Hills, EGR, Ada) will probably only occasionally go down to the Tanger Center if it provides a few stores you can't find elsewhere. But Caledonia, Byron, Georgetown, Grandville, Southern Kentwood, Hudsonville shoppers might make the jump to Tanger.

This development is just the lifestyle centers of Walker and Grand Rapids Township come to fruition. In a lot of ways it signifies continued healthy growth of the metro area.

[GR_Urbanist]

Isnt there some sort of "rule" that the parent stores dont want outlet malls built within a certain distance of their main retail operations?

 

Anyway, my mom and sisters are super excited about this place. They love outlet malls and it's on the way to the casino they visit regularly. I would love for this to be here, but not everything can be put in GR. Although It seems like most of everything retail isnt in GR. 

[RegalTDP]

What vacant land is there in Monroe North? If you mean the lots just North of the highway, they're all mainly owned by MSU now. I'll be one to say that a mall of this scale downtown would not be a good fit. Major retailers like Coach, Polo, H&M prefer lots of parking in a market like Grand Rapids. They're no dummies (they know most people in small to mid-sized markets drive to shop).

I was chatting with a commercial broker friend and he was say saying this Tanger Center is going to be a pretty big deal. 80 stores is essentially 80% the size of either Woodland or Rivertown, minus the anchors (which aren't that spectacular at either mall anyway). Macy's mens department is starting to look like Walmart with all the clearance racks.

It will be interesting to see what happens with Rivertown. Ever since General Growth filed for bankruptcy, it really seems to have gone to crap (in my opinion), and its 12 year old (?) decor is already looking dated. People who are on the East side of the city (Forest Hills, EGR, Ada) will probably only occasionally go down to the Tanger Center if it provides a few stores you can't find elsewhere. But Caledonia, Byron, Georgetown, Grandville, Southern Kentwood, Hudsonville shoppers might make the jump to Tanger.

This development is just the lifestyle centers of Walker and Grand Rapids Township come to fruition. In a lot of ways it signifies continued healthy growth of the metro area.

 

I agree with your thoughts on Rivertown.  I've gotten the sense that retailers have figured out all the spenders are east of Grand Rapids.  New retail comes to Woodland first.  Centerpointe and Breton Village are coming back.

 

It's a shame how sad departments stores everywhere have been looking lately.  Our Macy's is a shell of what Hudson's used to be.

[GRDadof3]

Groundbreaking on this Thursday morning, with the President of Tanger expected to attend.

 

More updated hi-res renderings.

 

 

 

 

 

It appears to be very similar to Tanger's "Charlotte Premium Outlets" that they just opened in Charlotte NC in July:

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=charlotte+premium+outlets&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=NmHyU7X6BcmxyATWl4DoDw&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAw&biw=1366&bih=600#imgdii=_

 

It's expected to draw 4 Million visitors in its first year.

[Veloise]

...

 

 

...

And already a flooded parking lot!                                                                                                                    ^^^^ this white car

 

Also, I'm enjoying the SIGNAGE SIGNAGE SIGNAGE.

[TheLonesomeHobo]

nice to see them adopting the Sport Clips / GameStop / SmashBurger branding / color scheme...

[wingbert]

4 million visitors!  Now THAT is a Game Changer !

[ironyisadeadscene]

Any chance this spurs more hotel development around that area?