Towers on Top of Parking Decks

[Spartan]

I agree. Columbia has enough boxes, so something different would be great.

[colasc]

So, assuming the 29 story apartment tower comes to fruition, which of the other parking garages will see residential towers? I'm sure some are better suited i.e. newer and can withstand more of the load, and/or they are located close to things people actually want to walk to. Also, being a lifelong Columbian, I can really say 29 stories is a skyscraper for us..does anyone believe there might be another Tomlin builds that will reach that height/higher, and on which garage might you envision it being constructed?

[growingup15]

So, assuming the 29 story apartment tower comes to fruition, which of the other parking garages will see residential towers? I'm sure some are better suited i.e. newer and can withstand more of the load, and/or they are located close to things people actually want to walk to. Also, being a lifelong Columbian, I can really say 29 stories is a skyscraper for us..does anyone believe there might be another Tomlin builds that will reach that height/higher, and on which garage might you envision it being constructed?

i think my rendering i draw up above is a good canidate for another 20+ floor residential tower. it would fit. If they even go higher i think that would be cool to have a new tallest tower right in the middle of town downtown will finally get that perfect look for smaller building outter city and taller buildings intercity.

[Spartan]

So, assuming the 29 story apartment tower comes to fruition, which of the other parking garages will see residential towers? I'm sure some are better suited i.e. newer and can withstand more of the load, and/or they are located close to things people actually want to walk to. Also, being a lifelong Columbian, I can really say 29 stories is a skyscraper for us..does anyone believe there might be another Tomlin builds that will reach that height/higher, and on which garage might you envision it being constructed?

 

As long as it's a deck with retail along the bottom I think any of them would be ok. The trend in urban apartments these days is to build them on top of structured parking (usually 2-3 floors) then go up from there. While they achieve density, they lack the street level activity that makes for a vibrant urban environment, and if anything make it worse. I think most of the decks in Columbia have at least some retail component, so with any luck they will focus on those first.

 

I can see the ones closer to Main St going before any others because there is already some momentum and street activity there, even if it's mostly 9-5 right now. I hope the heigh restrictions in the Vista are upheld because there is a ton of space for vertical density nearby.

[growingup15]

As long as it's a deck with retail along the bottom I think any of them would be ok. The trend in urban apartments these days is to build them on top of structured parking (usually 2-3 floors) then go up from there. While they achieve density, they lack the street level activity that makes for a vibrant urban environment, and if anything make it worse. I think most of the decks in Columbia have at least some retail component, so with any luck they will focus on those first.

 

I can see the ones closer to Main St going before any others because there is already some momentum and street activity there, even if it's mostly 9-5 right now. I hope the heigh restrictions in the Vista are upheld because there is a ton of space for vertical density nearby.

With the Vista ones there's 2. I think the one behind the Hilton Hotel would be night for a 8-12 story Residential. considering across the street they are about to build a 12-15 story student housing soon. 

but theirs one on washington st that would look nice with a 5-6 story apartment it would fit perfectly behind the Aloft hotel being built in front of it.

I think if the City go over the restrictions on the lady st/ Park st corner i think something a bit taller on that garage would fit up next to the that Possible High Rise tower on Lady and Park.

again like you said I think with Lower level retail would make it fit perfect in the vista. even if its a tall tower. in that vista. beautiful lower level retail restaurants and stores would make it worth while.

[colasc]

As long as it's a deck with retail along the bottom I think any of them would be ok. The trend in urban apartments these days is to build them on top of structured parking (usually 2-3 floors) then go up from there. While they achieve density, they lack the street level activity that makes for a vibrant urban environment, and if anything make it worse. I think most of the decks in Columbia have at least some retail component, so with any luck they will focus on those first.

 

I can see the ones closer to Main St going before any others because there is already some momentum and street activity there, even if it's mostly 9-5 right now. I hope the heigh restrictions in the Vista are upheld because there is a ton of space for vertical density nearby.

I think you're right on the decks closest to Main being developed first. Additionally, of those, the ones closest to the State House should go first.  

[victory]

Was just looking at some renderings of Skyhouse Nashville, and wondering what Tomlin's 29 story apartment/condo tower at Lady and Assembly will look like. I know he has met with folks at the Capital Center about the shared parking in the garage on which he plans to build, and has shared a rendering with them. Maybe this parking issue has to be ironed out first? I really hope an agreement can be reached, and that this building will rise to the heights intended.

[growingup15]

Was just looking at some renderings of Skyhouse Nashville, and wondering what Tomlin's 29 story apartment/condo tower at Lady and Assembly will look like. I know he has met with folks at the Capital Center about the shared parking in the garage on which he plans to build, and has shared a rendering with them. Maybe this parking issue has to be ironed out first? I really hope an agreement can be reached, and that this building will rise to the heights intended.

Ooo That would be something if a glass apartment was placed like that in Columbia.

 

I Hope either this tower or the next 20+ floor Apartment tower planned would look along the line of the Vue or Skye in Charlotte

 

Skye

 

The Vue

 

[victory]

I'm digging the Vue!

I believe Tomlin has been quoted as saying there may be as many as two buildings reaching 29 stories! Then, of course, he also has rights to build shorter ones atop the other parking garages (the shorter ones would be west of Assembly St in the Vista, I assume).

[Spartan]

Skye is horrendous. Everything about that building is awful, so I sincerely hope Columbia doesn't get something like that. If you like Charlotte residential towers, look up Catalyst, Avenue, Element, Trademark, Skyhouse I, Skyhouse II, The Mint, Ascent, etc. Those are much better.

The Vue is 52 stories I think. Columbia isn't ready for a residential building that tall, but it's definitely something to aspire to. 

So far, most of Columbia's high density residential is driven by USC. Student housing is great, but where are non-college students living in downtown?

[carolinagarnet]

Skye is horrendous. Everything about that building is awful, so I sincerely hope Columbia doesn't get something like that. If you like Charlotte residential towers, look up Catalyst, Avenue, Element, Trademark, Skyhouse I, Skyhouse II, The Mint, Ascent, etc. Those are much better.

I agree on Skye, but it's much better than the hollowed out shell that sat there for years. I would also take a rooftop restaurant like Fahrenheit in a second. The city would need a much bigger corporate and residential base to support a restaurant of that caliber, but I wonder if a rooftop bar would work? The Capitol Club is nice, but not really open to the public. We have tons of rooftop bars in DC and they are all popular. I think a hotel would be the ideal vehicle for such a concept.

[victory]

In looking at other cities such as Nashville, Charlotte, and Orlando, I had no idea there was such a movement nationally, it seems, to build apartment towers..not condos...but apartments. I wonder what sort of rent Don Tomlin's first tower at Lady and Assembly will fetch.

Release the kraken..I mean the renderings!

[carolinagarnet]

In looking at other cities such as Nashville, Charlotte, and Orlando, I had no idea there was such a movement nationally, it seems, to build apartment towers..not condos...but apartments. I wonder what sort of rent Don Tomlin's first tower at Lady and Assembly will fetch.

Release the kraken..I mean the renderings!

I think this trend has a lot to do with the recession. An entire class (generation?) of potential first time home buyers have faced unemployment and underemployment, which has prevented them from saving enough for a down payment. When coupled with the trend toward great urbanization and the surplus of condo supply built during the housing bubble, the market for condos is much smaller than it should be. It also appears that millennials are increasingly mobile- due in part to the need to follow job markets- so committing to even a five year stint in a home or condo is not feasible.

[victory]

I think this trend has a lot to do with the recession. An entire class (generation?) of potential first time home buyers have faced unemployment and underemployment, which has prevented them from saving enough for a down payment. When coupled with the trend toward great urbanization and the surplus of condo supply built during the housing bubble, the market for condos is much smaller than it should be. It also appears that millennials are increasingly mobile- due in part to the need to follow job markets- so committing to even a five year stint in a home or condo is not feasible.

I like your reasoning. Makes sense.

[growingup15]

I think this trend has a lot to do with the recession. An entire class (generation?) of potential first time home buyers have faced unemployment and underemployment, which has prevented them from saving enough for a down payment. When coupled with the trend toward great urbanization and the surplus of condo supply built during the housing bubble, the market for condos is much smaller than it should be. It also appears that millennials are increasingly mobile- due in part to the need to follow job markets- so committing to even a five year stint in a home or condo is not feasible.

Unfortunately you are right. im a millennial. 23 years old i still live with my parents because its taken me years to find a job and when I did it was very underpaying jobs. now finally looking for my own place now. its hard. and I thought i was the only one but most of my friends and even some of my cousins around the same age as me are having the same issue of finding a job or the job they have is crappy and they are stuck with their mom and dad.

the problem with a lot of these new apartment builds in downtown though that I have is most of them are so expensive not even some one making 15an hour can afford to stay in one without a room mate. Granted I love all this development in downtown and around the city. but Im wondering who are they really aiming for. Apartments that gives someone like me an oppertunity to live in somewhats luxury without worrying about someone breaking into my house. or are they only aiming at The Rich and Powerful.

I remember years back when i had a 1 on 1 meeting with Bob Coble about development in the city and apartment prices he told me that he is aiming towards downtown being a mixed Income kinda city. something that people like me only making 9.50 an hour can live in right next to my neighbour who has a 25an hour job.

 

I just wonder if the city is still looking into actually pulling off such builds in the future or are they gonna let all of it go Kinda like what Charlotte is going through and every new apartment is high end only super ultra luxury that the rich can live in only while us poorer people stay in the ghettos or bad side of town outside of the city.

[carolinagarnet]

This is a tough issue to solve because there is a such a large market for higher quality apartments. Developers are not going to intentionally build apartments with fewer amenities and lower quality features in a location that would service a higher price point. On the other hand, forcing mixed income development through government intervention (Section 8) does not help those in the middle ground between the income limit and market rate. There is plenty of evidence that Section 8 can actually raise rents by removing developable land. The answer in other cities has been slightly older inventory- the residential equivalent of Class B office space. It may not be as luxurious or well-located as the newer buildings, but it serves that middle market. 

I know I'm probably biased as a millennial who lives in one of these high-end buildings (in DC), but I would rather start with this type of housing to draw shopping. The number of people in a given area is not the only factor retailers look at when evaluating the market- they look at income. Since Columbia is skewed by USC, the easiest way to eyeball this is to look at the properties being built in the area and the type of consumer they draw. At this point, Columbia needs young doctors, lawyers, and other business professionals to move downtown as they are a target for the companies we want to draw to Columbia (i.e. Apple, J. Crew, H&M, etc.). 

[growingup15]

I understand and feel ya but from what ive seen whats been going on in places like NYC. developers who want tax credits can build high income along with Low and middle income places in the same building and development to receive those credits. I think if Columbia offers tax credits like that for developers in a way that if they dont want to pay taxes for 5-8 years or what not they have to offer lower income options in their High income development plans. I understand market and I understand  the areas they are in calls for 1200 bucks a month rent for a 1br 1ba

It just seems unfair for young ones like me who struggled trying to get somewhere  living in my city now cant even dream of living in a well off place even if its not ultra luxury. just not in places like School House rd or parts of Two Notch in the Ghetto.  I think Mixed Income Development is good for all types of business in the Downtown Area. instead of all High price restaurants and Stores.

Its been brought up recently earlier this year on the state news paper in the New Columbia article. 1 of the sub articles talks about Low income options in downtown. where are the low income options for people who cant afford these super high prices for rent and is being forced even further and further away from the city.

[carolinagarnet]

I understand and feel ya but from what ive seen whats been going on in places like NYC. developers who want tax credits can build high income along with Low and middle income places in the same building and development to receive those credits. I think if Columbia offers tax credits like that for developers in a way that if they dont want to pay taxes for 5-8 years or what not they have to offer lower income options in their High income development plans. I understand market and I understand  the areas they are in calls for 1200 bucks a month rent for a 1br 1ba

These laws, while well intended, have not been followed as designed in many cases. Developers have found creative ways to get around them in San Francisco, New York, and Washington. There are three options in most cases: 

1. Build low income apartments in the buildings, usually small units on low floors.

2. Build the same amount/value of low income housing in a different location within the city. There are no restrictions on location.

3. Pay into a Public Housing Trust Fund that builds Section 8 housing. 

There was a story recently about a very expensive high rise on Riverside Drive in New York that had a separate entrance in the back for the low income units. Another story in DC discussed a building downtown that met the requirement by building low income units in Anacostia, the most dangerous part of the city. In San Francisco, developers are just paying into the trust fund because the first two options are not economically feasible. Columbia does not, and probably will not, face these issues because there is still plenty of land downtown for mixed income housing. Canalside is a good example of this. There may not be affordable housing directly on Main Street, but there's still room for it within the city.

[growingup15]

These laws, while well intended, have not been followed as designed in many cases. Developers have found creative ways to get around them in San Francisco, New York, and Washington. There are three options in most cases: 

1. Build low income apartments in the buildings, usually small units on low floors.

2. Build the same amount/value of low income housing in a different location within the city. There are no restrictions on location.

3. Pay into a Public Housing Trust Fund that builds Section 8 housing. 

There was a story recently about a very expensive high rise on Riverside Drive in New York that had a separate entrance in the back for the low income units. Another story in DC discussed a building downtown that met the requirement by building low income units in Anacostia, the most dangerous part of the city. In San Francisco, developers are just paying into the trust fund because the first two options are not economically feasible. Columbia does not, and probably will not, face these issues because there is still plenty of land downtown for mixed income housing. Canalside is a good example of this. There may not be affordable housing directly on Main Street, but there's still room for it within the city.

I heard about how they was letting low income people in seperate doors. which is wrong. I hope columbia dont let it get that far and have the whole Low income option a lot more in the coming years as new development comes about in Downtown.

[Spartan]

I agree on Skye, but it's much better than the hollowed out shell that sat there for years. I would also take a rooftop restaurant like Fahrenheit in a second. The city would need a much bigger corporate and residential base to support a restaurant of that caliber, but I wonder if a rooftop bar would work? The Capitol Club is nice, but not really open to the public. We have tons of rooftop bars in DC and they are all popular. I think a hotel would be the ideal vehicle for such a concept.

I think rooftop bars are a no brainer. They're building a new hotel in Spartanburg that will have one. I assume the restaurant on top of the Marriott is still doing well?

[growingup15]

I think rooftop bars are a no brainer. They're building a new hotel in Spartanburg that will have one. I assume the restaurant on top of the Marriott is still doing well?

 

We need a Out of state Club/Bar on top of the tower. Something that lights up at night also. something you can see for miles away 

[growingup15]

Well i just found what I was looking for and Don Tomlin who is planning ot build Atop Garages in Downtown. I found out he is also planning to build 450 Affordable Multi Family housing in Infill areas of Columbia Soon. This is good news but I still wonder when the affordable high rise apartment will be an option soon?

[carolinagarnet]

I wouldn't look to Don Tomlin or any of the other named developers to build affordable housing. I also wouldn't expect an affordable high rise without a heavy government subsidy. The foundation alone would eliminate the possibility of lower price points, not to mention engineering costs, the extra steel required to reinforce anything that is not stick built, and the land value generally associated with high rises. The best bet is garden style apartments on the edges of downtown. I have heard that the city is trying to redevelop Gonzalez Gardens into safer, higher quality, denser housing. This will be a huge effort, but will undoubtedly improve the stock of affordable housing in the city by alleviating pressure on lower priced apartments elsewhere and hopefully reduce the crime in the area.

[Spes]

"Affordable housing" is just a tax gimmick developers can use. They dedicate a set number of apartments to "affordable," meaning ~75% market rate, and get a handsome tax break. Usually only lasts 5 or so years. Some of the Hughes buildings in Greenville use it. Don't get your hopes up.

The city would do better to fix what's wrong with its public housing instead of slapping a coat of paint on it while jamming it in sparsely populated areas with poor connectivity. It's been my impression that mixed income public housing has had better measurable affects, by putting smaller public housing in already established areas, rather than the hinterlands like Gonzalez Gardens. I'm sure that would rankle the NIMBY set though, and I'm sure City Hall doesn't have the stomach to get it done. Oh well

[Spartan]

I moved the discussion about the tower at Lady & Washington to it's own thread here: http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/topic/117421-lady-washington-residential-tower-29-stories/

 

This thread will be used to discuss the remaining locations until specific projects are announced.