1100 S. Main St Apartments (Pendleton Street Baptist Church)

[chuckyvt]

Ahhh....I gotcha. Being one block off Main or right on Main is not a big difference IMO. All of these projects should have retail on the ground floor. 

I'm sure Rhett street will evolve over time, but it's currently residential and I'm not sure mixed use would be economically viable right now even if were built   Main Street in my mind is different   This is an opportunity to extend the pedestrian experience of Main Street   Also longer term I think there is a desire to see Pendleton street redone in a more pedestrian friendly corridor to link the West End and the arts district.   if nobody bothers to walk past the baseball stadium, this is even more of a challenge   

[vicupstate]

I'm sure Rhett street will evolve over time, but it's currently residential and I'm not sure mixed use would be economically viable right now even if were built   Main Street in my mind is different   This is an opportunity to extend the pedestrian experience of Main Street   Also longer term I think there is a desire to see Pendleton street redone in a more pedestrian friendly corridor to link the West End and the arts district.   if nobody bothers to walk past the baseball stadium, this is even more of a challenge   

 

Well said. There IS a big difference between Main and Rhett and the prices reflect that.  One big reason that the prices are much higher is because of the better visibility, and higher auto and pedestrian count.  Rhett is a lot narrower too. There will eventually be some retail on Rhett but it will be more here and there, such as at key intersections like Rhett and Markley (Stadium condos).  I would expect the Rhett retail to be truly more neighborhood oriented rather than destination retail/restaurant. 

The bar SHOULD be higher as well, simply because this is Main St. The connection to Pendleton St. is important, plus the city has invested heavily in the Main St. corridor already.    

On the other hand the developers will say that the St. Andrews Church and the new P.S.B.B.C already create a break in the retail continuation, and that peds would not naturally just walk that much further for no reason. Of course the other side of Main St. is a blank slate right now.  

 

Edited August 19, 2015 by vicupstate

[vicupstate]

If the city does decide to build a new parking garage in the West End, it will be on the Transit site. 

I figured as much and I hope that site will be MORE than just a garage with ground-floor retail, but a fully mixed use project.  

However, given the unknown future of County Square, I don't think it would be a bad idea to consider this area in addition, even if only for 100 or 200 spaces.  Putting 500-700 spaces at the transit property would not leave much room for other things, and being that it fronts two major streets, it could and should be an 'anchor' property for the West End.    

 

[ausrutherford]

I figured as much and I hope that site will be MORE than just a garage with ground-floor retail, but a fully mixed use project.  

However, given the unknown future of County Square, I don't think it would be a bad idea to consider this area in addition, even if only for 100 or 200 spaces.  Putting 500-700 spaces at the transit property would not leave much room for other things, and being that it fronts two major streets, it could and should be an 'anchor' property for the West End.    

 

You won't see any parking garages alone. 

[LVGRNVL]

We are going to be living in the neighborhood in the shadow of this place.  Ouch!  5-6 stories in a 2-3 story residential/mixed use neighborhood is too high.  Bring the scale of this place into line and break it up, creating spaces that are inviting at the human level.  Plus, the architectural work is BORING and boxy.  Look at Riverplace, Custom House and similar developments.  These draw our interest in and help create a sense of neighborhood because of their architectural integrity.  Admittedly there is only one rendering available, but to me it is 1990's college dorm architecture.  Not good enough for an historic neighborhood!  Let's get them to try harder. 

[ausrutherford]

We are going to be living in the neighborhood in the shadow of this place.  Ouch!  5-6 stories in a 2-3 story residential/mixed use neighborhood is too high.  Bring the scale of this place into line and break it up, creating spaces that are inviting at the human level.  Plus, the architectural work is BORING and boxy.  Look at Riverplace, Custom House and similar developments.  These draw our interest in and help create a sense of neighborhood because of their architectural integrity.  Admittedly there is only one rendering available, but to me it is 1990's college dorm architecture.  Not good enough for an historic neighborhood!  Let's get them to try harder. 

Ive seen it from every side, it doesn't get any better. 

[SVL]

I don't think 5-6 stories will be that big of a deal. Isn't 400 Rhett 5-6 stories? It doesn't appear to be out of place. Most of these projects end up looking much better than the renderings. Some retail on the street level would be cool though.

[ausrutherford]

I don't think 5-6 stories will be that big of a deal. Isn't 400 Rhett 5-6 stories? It doesn't appear to be out of place. Most of these projects end up looking much better than the renderings. Some retail on the street level would be cool though.

400 Rhett street is in the middle of C4 zoning. This backs up to what will continue as single family zoning so there is a difference. 

[Gville2012]

400 Rhett has residential directly behind it... doesn't it?

[SVL]

400 Rhett has residential directly behind it... doesn't it?

I'm pretty sure it does. I've never looked at it and felt that it didn't fit in.

[ausrutherford]

400 Rhett has residential directly behind it... doesn't it?

That has been rezoned to C4, so it won't be single family for much longer. The housing behind this project is currently RM2, which is multi family, however, the city will shortly rezone it to be R4, single family. 

[MAJIKMAN]

My thinking is that 400 Rhett will and has set precedence with this and maybe other projects in this neighborhood. Think about it. This could not have been the only property the developer looked at in that area. And others are probably looking to see where this one is going. If it doesn't change, as far as height goes, we are probably going to see more of these. With the sizable lots shrinking nowadays most of the developments are going to be closer to the edges of residential areas. Especially those areas downtown. Now that's going to be not the exception but the rule. 

Edited August 24, 2015 by MAJIKMAN

[LVGRNVL]

All this talk about height alone is out of context.  What is height in relation to the overall scale of the project as placed on the lot.  That is to say, if the developer wants to crowd the sidewalk then lower the height and keep it at a pedestrian friendly level. If they need to keep the number of units at 272, then reduce the footprint and set it back from the streets and increase number of floors.  This will create a much more appropriate sense of scale.  

In the end that is half the battle.  The other half is the quality of the design.  It should be rooted in the neighborhood and not a big box store.  MAKE them do better!!!

 

[Gville29601]

If you have concerns then sign the petition and be heard.

 

http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/petition-to-modify-proposed-plans-for-west-end-apartments.html

 

 

[bikeoid]

http://www.wyff4.com/news/apartments-could-go-in-place-of-historic-west-end-church/34916708

 

Historic West End church could be taken down for apartments

A historic church could soon be coming down to make way for a new apartment complex in the West End. ...

[gman430]

The church has every right to sell their property if they so choose. Who are we or anybody else to tell them otherwise? How would you feel if people tried to stop you from selling your home? 

Edited August 26, 2015 by gman430

[LVGRNVL]

Happy to sign the petition!  Of course they have a right to sell.  But the neighborhood has a right to expect a development that adds to the neighborhood and is in keeping with the local architecture.  Check out the condos at Riverplace.   

[sc smitty]

The church has every right to sell their property if they so choose. Who are we or anybody else to tell them otherwise? How would you feel if people tried to stop you from selling your home? 

I don't think anyone here has said anything about denying them the right to sell their property. And despite what the WYFF story says, the petition is not seeking to stop the project either, it's simply asking for much needed changes to be made to make the project fit better. Keeping the building the same height of the Field House buildings seems reasonable requirement to keep the building in scale with its surroundings.  A 6 story building right across the street from an existing residential neighborhood of mostly 1 story houses is ridiculous. At least keep the building taller on Main St and step it down shorter on Rhett.  Why should the concerns of existing residents be ignored simply because someone thinks it would be best if their homes were bulldozed and replaced with something taller in the future?  Also, having a mix of retail on Main St is a pretty basic requirement for creating a viable downtown that will draw pedestrians down the street.  An entire block of apartments on Main St gives a person no reason to keep walking any further past the ballpark, making connection to any further redevelopment up the street very difficult.  

[MAJIKMAN]

Now remember I have no skin in the game on this. But I have read in a number of forums, Nashville today, where I hear the same echoes of concern. It will be to big, to out of place, it will change the dynamics of the neighborhood, and rents of homes will go up. Well the last one is the most concerning, the rents have been steadily going up for the last few years displacing a lot of folks everywhere. That's a bigger concern than anything. But that shouldn't surprise anyone. The News 4 story was more about dramatics than anything. And it looked like everything in it was hyped. Things are going to change. Whether we want them to or not. 

[NBNY2GRNVL]

What's historic about the church? Is it very old or something?

[GvilleSC]

What's historic about the church? Is it very old or something?

the congregation is old, but the building is not.

[Greenville]

NIMBYs, plain and simple.

[Gville29601]

NIMBYs, plain and simple.

http://memegenerator.net/instance/54123144

I would not call this NIMBY "plain and simple." The petition asks for considerations commonly 'hoped for' on this internet board. The petition asks for a height appropriate building. Expresses concern for gentrification. Desires mixed use. Demands the building be architecturally relevant to the immediate neighborhood. Complaints and desires echoed on pretty much every other Main Street project. 

It's not so black and white. This board has been recently concerned over the Greenville News building development project. However, this land is arguably just as important. Development here  could hinder or foster the success of our Main Street. Main Street could be either be encouraged to extend past the stadium and through / along Pendelton Street, or this development could add a major speed bump and possible block further development. We hope the developers, with encouragement from the community, makes the development smart. 

[vicupstate]

I BELIEVE that the building is only 6 floors on one corner, the one closest to Fluor Field, but I may be mistaken on that. The topography drops down at that point. I THOUGHT the rest was 5 floors.  Feel free to correct me on that, if I have it wrong.  

I personally don't see a problem with SFR being across from mid-rise residential buildings.  You see that all the time in urban neighborhoods. It is far preferred to looking at a parking garage or some other 'backside' element, IMO.

The quality of the architecture, or the lack thereof, would be the biggest concern of mine. I would want a building that will fit it, look good and still look good in 20 years. A building that would be a great candidate for condo-conversion not just a throw it up and make a quick profit apartment building that will look a lot worse in 10-20 years.      

    

[MAJIKMAN]

I do agree with most of the things that could be changed like putting retail on the front portion of this building. We don't know what they are paying for the property, so the number of units may be a reflection of that and of course the way they are recovering that cost. So arranging the project could be problematic. To few floors and they can't make the numbers works and splitting the building may increase the overall height. So they'd be damn if they do and damn if they don't. But if I were them and it would probably cost a more to do. But I would sink the first level of parking, like the link apartments did, and build higher towards Main street. Remove the vehicle entry on main and place retail all along that stretch. 

Edited August 27, 2015 by MAJIKMAN