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NC Music Factory / Uptown Village / Deco One


Raintree21

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The city had nothing to do with this development. Noah Lazis just bought all of the land himself and deicded to build and entertainment district seperated from the Charlotte's home grown entertainment district. It wil be direct competition with the nightlife on college street and one or the other in my opinion will either fail, or they will both bring in more huge crowds and Charlotte will finally become a hot spot for nightlife. I am not sure which one w ill happen, but I really do hope that it will be the latter of the two that I have proposed.

Agreed, I hope that the two "districts" can build off of each other rather than compete.

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Agreed, I hope that the two "districts" can build off of each other rather than compete.

I'm going to play the pessimist here, and wonder how that's possible. Charlotte's nightlife - while growing - just isn't that big. Witness the scene with the clubs around town in the last 2.5 years.

Time Lounge was primo-club, then Twist opened. Time is now barren most nights. Twist was the hotspot, and Menage opened. Twist has closed it's doors. Menage was the hotspot and Forum opened. Menage is now a BBQ restaurant.

I'm not saying a new bar/club would fail or force out an older bar (witness CANS) - but how can you expect there to be two distinct and seperate areas that both are successful? One will cannabalize the other.

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Well the nightclub industry goes that way. Popularity of one can rise and fall just as soon as the next one opens. That's normal is many large cities. However, the trend of clubs closing should eventually stabilize as more and more people move uptown and the city grows. Pittsburgh is one city that comes to mind that has night clubs in areas throughout the city, not just one strip. That's why I'm hoping both 'entertainment districts' can coexist in the same manner. It's not that uncommon for people (who have a DD) to hop in their car after a couple hours at one club and head on to the next. This is why 24hr bars exist. In this manner, people can go from one 'district' to another just as easily. This also helps out the taxi industry, more people trying to get from district A to district B. Charlotte's need for that currently isn't as large just because of the city proper's layout.

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"Time Lounge was primo-club, then Twist opened. Time is now barren most nights. Twist was the hotspot, and Menage opened. Twist has closed it's doors. Menage was the hotspot and Forum opened. Menage is now a BBQ restaurant."

What Lazos is doing will attract a different type of crowd. Once the entertainment part starts up, it will be centered around live entertainment, whether it be concerts or bars with bands. Right now, there really aren't any places downtown to see live music. I'm not saying that people who now frequent the downtown bars/nightclubs won't head over there from time to time, but they will still continue to hit the places they do now on a regular basis. Also, the Music Factory will not only try to attract folks in the Charlotte area who are looking for good live music, but also from surrounding areas as well. A guy I know who is fairly big in the local music scene told me not long ago that the Music Factory will bring in some fairly well known acts that don't normally stop in Charlotte due to there not being a venue for them - our venues are either too big or too small. For example, until this past year, Coldplay wouldn't stop in Charlotte because they only played 5,000 seat venues. The ampi-theathers that Lazos is building would accomodate those acts and there are lots of bands similar to that out there. This thing could be huge if and when it gets going. If it does, the end result will probably be that the Music Factory will be the place where mostly "out of towners" go and downtown will be where the "locals" hang out.

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  • 1 month later...

I'm going to play the pessimist here, and wonder how that's possible. Charlotte's nightlife - while growing - just isn't that big. Witness the scene with the clubs around town in the last 2.5 years.

Time Lounge was primo-club, then Twist opened. Time is now barren most nights. Twist was the hotspot, and Menage opened. Twist has closed it's doors. Menage was the hotspot and Forum opened. Menage is now a BBQ restaurant.

I'm not saying a new bar/club would fail or force out an older bar (witness CANS) - but how can you expect there to be two distinct and seperate areas that both are successful? One will cannabalize the other.

I'd add a devil's advocate cautionary note as well - a look around the country at some of the more successful music/creative "scenes" - Seattle, Portland, San Fran in the 60s, Austin, Athens GA, Chapel Hill 1990s, Greenwich Village folk in the 60s & punk in the 70s, Beale Street, French Qtr - they were all organic developments that evolved over time, and weren't the brainchild of one or two people deciding to create a scene or district. I'd like to see this succeed because Charlotte definitely deserves it, but it will take more than money and condos to make it succeed; for that to happen you'll need to draw in, welcome and appeal to lots of little garage bands (or jazz or blues or whatever...) and weird artists, who may not have money, and whatever following they can generate and add into the scene - that, MUCH more than anything else, is what made Seattle or Beale Street or San Fran what they were.

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There is an article in Creative Loafing about a guy booking shows in Charlotte (Queen City Indie) and looked like he brought some good stuff to town that Charlotte used to not get. Unfortunately attendance sucked and his business went in the can. I don't think you can get too creative with the booking in Charlotte.

Story

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There is an article in Creative Loafing about a guy booking shows in Charlotte (Queen City Indie) and looked like he brought some good stuff to town that Charlotte used to not get. Unfortunately attendance sucked and his business went in the can. I don't think you can get too creative with the booking in Charlotte.

Story

I am thinking that this "kid" who lost money from bookings is not failing because it is Charlotte, but rather because he is a kid with limited business experience. I am a musician myself, and can state quite plainly, that Charlotte is NOT an Austin,TX, but it does have a scene, you just have to know where it is and when to go.

The Neighborhood Theatre, Evening Muse, The Double Door, The Visualite, and Tremount all do quite well at booking great music. (and there are many others)

I would contest that a company going under ran by a 25 year old kid, (who started the company when he was barely able to buy a beer ;) ), is hardly any indication of a dying (or boring) music scene.

I can love Pizza and still suck at having a business selling it in a city that also loves Pizza. Some things have to come back to basis business sense.

A2

Edited by A2
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I would contest that a company going under ran by a 25 year old kid, (who started the company when he was barely able to buy a beer ;) ), is hardly any indication of a dying (or boring) music scene.

Yeah, you better wink after that age bashing quote... I might have to come after ya ;) .

In reality though, I do agree with you. That is likely the case behind the business failure. However, I will say that one should keep in mind that pretty much every great music scene in a city, whether it be Haight-Ashbury, Seattle, or Athens, GA, was started by "kids who are barely old enough to buy beer". Some of these kids have created lasting institutions and legacy scenes in the cities that were once their party grounds. So it is possible, only complex and with the need of a great amount of luck.

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Yeah, you better wink after that age bashing quote... I might have to come after ya ;) .

In reality though, I do agree with you. That is likely the case behind the business failure. However, I will say that one should keep in mind that pretty much every great music scene in a city, whether it be Haight-Ashbury, Seattle, or Athens, GA, was started by "kids who are barely old enough to buy beer". Some of these kids have created lasting institutions and legacy scenes in the cities that were once their party grounds. So it is possible, only complex and with the need of a great amount of luck.

His problem was that he booked bands that he liked, not bands that people wanted to see. Couple that with the fact that alot of his shows were at the Milestone, which is a complete dump in a horrible neighborhood, and it is no wonder the shows were poorly attended. He did a poor job of promoting the shows, and took to berating people on his email list. It was a disaster.

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Well, I think the Milestone is a great venue, yeah it is in a dump, but 5-7 years ago that is what people were saying about Fat City in Noda. I think that promotion and experience do have a lot to do with it. But I also at the same time feel Charlotte has become a vicim to not having as ecclectic of a music scene due to not having a good local college run station. Seattle, San Francisco, Chapel Hill, Atlanta, Chicago, Austin, etc. etc all have local college stations that promote and play a lot of bands you just don't hear on regular radio stations. They simply can reach a wider audience than handing out flyers will ever do. Yes Charlotte did have a great music scene cirra late 80's early 90's and I think the reason for that was because there were less Clear Channel,Disney, Infinity owned radio stations in Charlotte at that point, and the local radio stations had more programs geared toward local, new/upincoming, or alternative acts. And in turn the mast majority of Charlotte listeners were more adepth to bands that were not Top 40. Well that is my theory behind the current state of Charlotte's music scene. Can UNCC or CPCC please get a local station!!! I know Gastonia has own,but I can never get reception of it.

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Well, I think the Milestone is a great venue, yeah it is in a dump, but 5-7 years ago that is what people were saying about Fat City in Noda. I think that promotion and experience do have a lot to do with it. But I also at the same time feel Charlotte has become a vicim to not having as ecclectic of a music scene due to not having a good local college run station. Seattle, San Francisco, Chapel Hill, Atlanta, Chicago, Austin, etc. etc all have local college stations that promote and play a lot of bands you just don't hear on regular radio stations. They simply can reach a wider audience than handing out flyers will ever do. Yes Charlotte did have a great music scene cirra late 80's early 90's and I think the reason for that was because there were less Clear Channel,Disney, Infinity owned radio stations in Charlotte at that point, and the local radio stations had more programs geared toward local, new/upincoming, or alternative acts. And in turn the mast majority of Charlotte listeners were more adepth to bands that were not Top 40. Well that is my theory behind the current state of Charlotte's music scene. Can UNCC or CPCC please get a local station!!! I know Gastonia has own,but I can never get reception of it.

The problem with the Milstone is that the sound sucks, the neighborhood is dangerous, and the building itself is falling apart. Outside of nostalgia I don't see why anyone would want to book a show there. There are so many other venues with better facilities in this area.

BTW, if anyone is interested, Friday and Saturday night there are two great shows at The Evening Muse.

Saturday: http://www.myspace.com/trespasserswilliam

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The problem with the Milstone is that the sound sucks, the neighborhood is dangerous, and the building itself is falling apart. Outside of nostalgia I don't see why anyone would want to book a show there. There are so many other venues with better facilities in this area.

BTW, if anyone is interested, Friday and Saturday night there are two great shows at The Evening Muse.

Saturday: http://www.myspace.com/trespasserswilliam

i have to disagree.

i spent many weekends as a teenager @ the milestone and have alot of nostalgic memories of the place. so, while planning to attend the oct. 25th show of the melvins, i had some reservations. my concerns were based off the fact that it isn't the same management as when i regularly attended shows... that, mixed with things i didn't like about the "old" milestone. i knew the show had sold out, so i knew it was going to packed beyond capacity (like back in the day).... i thought the sound was going to be blistering.... and i thought it was going to be super smokey. it was none of these things. the sold-out crowd was very comfortable, i saw 2 people smoking, and the sound was AMAZING. in fact it was one of the best shows i've been to in many, many years (and the melvins aren't anywhere near my favorite band). i even wrote the new management a letter of appreciation the next day.

yes, the neighborhood and location of the milestone sucks (i would love to be able to pick that building up and move it to plaza midwood). but, the "new" milestone has actually had recent renovations and is owned by people who cherish it's history, which is some of the most colorful charlotte has to offer IMO. the parking lot is now fenced in and they have always had security. i've never heard of anyone dying on the property which is more than one could say for alot places this old in charlotte.

my intent is not to sugarcoat the place... it is what it is... but, damn good at it. we are fortunate to still have the milestone, as it's the last of it's kind.

Edited by cinco
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  • 1 month later...

Are those still entertainment oriented or are they moving towards business and residential?

The current work consists of primarily entertainment venues with a condo building to be built at the corner of Maxwell and Seaboard at a later date (timetable unknown). All current office is being converted to entertainment venues I believe.

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I just heard a few minutes ago on the 10 o'clock news on channel 46 that a 4-lane road is beginning construction that will hook to Graham. It's a good think, because I've driven to the site before and it's a bit of a pain from uptown. I kind of had the feeling I was heading in the wrong direction when I was heading the right way. The new road is supposed to open this summer.

They were talking it up a bunch on the news about how it will be the "next big hot spot" in center city.

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News of that road is all over this thread :).

It is a good thing for them to have a legitimate roadway connection, but I think I am among the many on here that are skeptical of considering this development a hotspot. I'm glad he is trying to make something of the area, and are renovating an old mill for modern uses, though.

I actually hope they extend Seaboard Street all the way to Tryon alongside the railroad tracks. That would make it even more connected in with the city. That area is so cut up by railroad tracks and abandonned street rights of way that any major reconnection of streets would help considerably.

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I can't imagine this project coexisting with the Epicenter for very long. Seems like one of them will ultimately fail.

Other than the Live Nation-booked, HOB-type concert venue, what will attract folks and/or prospective tenants/business owners to the NCMF? Is it going to feature a separate 5000 seat Amphitheatre as well?Not really understanding this, as last I heard the concert biz was in the tank. Revenues are at an alltime low.

Despite the road extension construction, I'm not convinced huge crowds of people will flock to this desolate little pocket of land. Is some kind of pedestrian access from uptown part of the plan?

How does one plan (in advance) a district that in theory would be more or less organic. You can't "plan" a Beale Street or Deep Ellum. They evolve over a period of time. Lazes seems to think it will attract an artistic, bohemian sort of element when in reality, these types of people avoid condos and chain establishment. All the plans I've been hearing about are full of contradiction, starting at the very top with the oxymoron "Uptown Village".

Laze's confidence is high as always, but as we've seen before, this means absolutely nothing.

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Laze's confidence is high as always, but as we've seen before, this means absolutely nothing.

It is easy to have high confidence with deep pockets.

I agree, personally I think this plan might have worked a few years back when there was nothing else going on, but we have threads here that discuss how the core of uptown still is lacking in enough activity much less this out-of-the-way pocket. As you stated, the right concert at HOB will bring people in, but a concert per week won't keep a place like that afloat. A good friend owns Visulite and the live music business itself has been hurting for a few years now (he now books basketball games on the big screen and DJ nights as well as other non-live music events). NCMF will be in direct competition with the fledgling uptown scene and the established ring neighborhood scenes.

I honestly hope it will work, but it has been 3 or 4 years that they have been "about to announce" the big venues and this isn't a project that has been on hold, it has been progressing with all other aspects, just not the entertainment part. Overall they just want it to work and have done entertain complexes and clubs in other cities (Miami, Indianapolis) but the one they have done here (World Mardi Gras in Citifair) folded. The one club that did open in NCMF, Illusions, closed already.

If anything might work well the outdoor ampitheater seems like something we don't have in the immediate area and will be smaller and more intimate than Verizon. The buildings in this complex are fantastic -- really big, really cool, great brick and glass -- but are they in the location that will attract people or attract them as an alternative to what is already around or growing?

Edited by Charlotte_native
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It's not all *that* hard to find this place. If you are driving south on Statesville, look for the signs on the right that say "Uptown/Village - Music Factory" and follow them through the little residential neighborhood beside 277, until you get there. (That said, if feels really odd driving around.)

Unfortunately, I think the Brevard street idea will have more momentum. Even with the new connecting street, I think this area will still feel like a "pocket" behind Elmwood.

It could be a nice place to fly kites, but it's not a very appealing site for a walkable entertainment district.

Edited by MZT
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Just to be clear to everyone, Lazes should have more confidence now than ever before. The city and NCDOT (I think both are involved) are extending Seaboard Street as a straight and proper major roadway connection between Graham Street and this project. From 77, you'd take the Graham Street exit, go right onto Graham, and then left at a major intersection onto Seaboard, and voila. No more crossing railroad tracks or weaving around behind the mill.

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Just to be clear to everyone, Lazes should have more confidence now than ever before. The city and NCDOT (I think both are involved) are extending Seaboard Street as a straight and proper major roadway connection between Graham Street and this project. From 77, you'd take the Graham Street exit, go right onto Graham, and then left at a major intersection onto Seaboard, and voila. No more crossing railroad tracks or weaving around behind the mill.

Dubone, how and where is Seaboard extending and tieing into Graham Street? Will this connection be on the northeast side of 277 near the current intersection of Graham and 12th?

Nevermind, the connection is to the north of the Norfolk-Southern line along Graham Street at a new intersection before Statesville Avenue splits off.

Edited by cooperdawg
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