I-49 One Step Closer to Being Realized

[itk]

Joke's on me, I guess, but...why the need, then, to finish the Missouri/Arkansas bypass? (And for an interstate-quality highway all the way from Kansas City to Fort Smith?) Isn't that a lot of money and effort to link up a few medium sized Arkansas metro areas to the world?

No, no joke on you. Really it's more of a rhetorical joke (for lack of a better term), or something funny about something we can't really change. (sort of laughing with rather than laughing at).

Since I'm not an economist by any means, I don't know how much economists can 'improve' their, well, job. I'm not aware of any better way of doing it, but that doesn't mean studies like that (heck, I haven't even read that study, it might not be so bad) will get factored into official justification for a new interstate.

To an extent potential forecast economic benefits do play a part in justification for major projects like this; but (again, not my particular area) to my understanding that has been downplayed significantly in recent times.

Heck, I remember in college my professor basically telling us that benefit/cost analyses were basically worthless for civil improvement projects.

[Mith242]

A question for Itk, or anyone else who can help. Where can I go to see a current map of the path of the proposed Bella Vista bypass? The last one we saw, about 6 years ago, showed the highway running about 800 feet behind our house. We are now concerned that it may be moving closer to us; some very large, expensive homes were just built in what we thought was the direct path of the road. Thanks in advance for your help.

Just trying to move this up so it's not overlooked since we've moved on to another page.

[itk]

A question for Itk, or anyone else who can help. Where can I go to see a current map of the path of the proposed Bella Vista bypass? The last one we saw, about 6 years ago, showed the highway running about 800 feet behind our house. We are now concerned that it may be moving closer to us; some very large, expensive homes were just built in what we thought was the direct path of the road. Thanks in advance for your help.

Try going to http://www.nwarpc.com/maps.htm

You can also try http://gis.bentonvillear.com/mapindex.html and click on the Bentonville Master Street plan (you need a plug-in for it, but it's really slick). The Bella Vista route should show up (or you might need to turn on the layer if it doesn't come up automatically).

However, it sounds like someone has told you (or you've seen) something pretty precise. Was this at a public meeting 6 years ago? If that was the case, I imagine that was probably something "fuzzy". I think they are still doing design work on the highway, in which case it should go before another public meeting sometime in the near future (where you can see something precise; nothing has been scheduled yet). That would be the best time to raise any concerns and to get any questions answered.

If you really want to know now, you can call AHTD's front office, and they'll route you to the appropriate person to talk to.

As far as who I work for, I prefer to stay low and try not to let-on or evoke the name of my employer(s). That way I can still say stuff without getting myself or my bosses in trouble. However, I probably wouldn't anyways, since I'm not say anything I wouldn't say to anybody in regular conversation. It's just that my words are "written down" in the cyber-hall of records for who knows when, so that they may be used against me in the future, which I don't want. In my job, one must be very careful how you phrase words and what kind of verbage you can or cannot say without getting in hot water. But, while I'm on here, I try to drop my "job speak" and try to be myself as much as possible. I have to be careful.

So lets just say I'm in the transportation engineering and planning related field of work, and have a particular interest in NWA (personal and professional). I'm still relatively recent to this field, but have been on tv and newspapers several times up in NWA (that and I grew up there), so I don't want anyone really to know who I am period. I'll be around, that's for sure. I'm sure I'll slip up sometime.

[KJW]

Hmmm...the Arkansas Highway Commission wants the Bella Vista bypass to be part of Interstate 49.

Just a small step and perhaps not meaningful at all, but still interesting.

[slyder1]

I've actually heard some news on this project recently. KY3 did a story on MODOT's Interstate Plans, I was surprised to hear that once the stretch of Hwy 71 form Joplin to the Arkansas state line is complete, the attention will be turned to Hwy 13 from Springfield to KC to upgrade it to interstate standards, then to be called I-413, because of the higher traffic numbers and more dangerous roads. Once that is completed MODOT states that they will complete the rest of the overpasses needed on HWY 71 from KC to Joplin to complete it's interstate status in Missouri.

[Mith242]

Hmmm...the Arkansas Highway Commission wants the Bella Vista bypass to be part of Interstate 49.

Just a small step and perhaps not meaningful at all, but still interesting.

Yeah like you said, maybe not a huge deal but still it's nice at least to see the state looking in the right direction on this. I believe I read that the state was going to try to get with Louisiana and Missouri on this about trying to prioritize this roadway.

[KJW]

He said with petroleum prices and the impact of Gulf Coast hurricanes on labor, costs for the project have risen and it now totals more than $400 million.

[mcheiss]

Either the John Q. Hammons Center or the Embassy Suites.

[KJW]

Either the John Q. Hammons Center or the Embassy Suites.

"Area 51."

[Rardy]

I-49 from Texarkana to the Louisiana border is complete. I-49 from Shreveport, LA to Lafayette, LA is complete. I-49 from the Arkansas line to Shreveport and from Lafayette to New Orleans is under construction.

This will really benefit NWA once it's completed, giving y'all interstate access to the port at New Orleans and with I-69 in Shreveport, interstate access to Houston and Mexico. Re-reading old comments I really think Arkansas' stretch of 49 is more important than what's been discussed. The more interstates there are in a metro area, the easier it is to diversify your economy. And NWA will be well set with easy access to 49, 40, and 44.

[Mith242]

I-49 from Texarkana to the Louisiana border is complete. I-49 from Shreveport, LA to Lafayette, LA is complete. I-49 from the Arkansas line to Shreveport and from Lafayette to New Orleans is under construction.

This will really benefit NWA once it's completed, giving y'all interstate access to the port at New Orleans and with I-69 in Shreveport, interstate access to Houston and Mexico. Re-reading old comments I really think Arkansas' stretch of 49 is more important than what's been discussed. The more interstates there are in a metro area, the easier it is to diversify your economy. And NWA will be well set with easy access to 49, 40, and 44.

Yeah Arkansas will have to complete the section through the Ouachitas though. I get the feeling it's going to be a while before that's done.

[itk]

I-49 from Texarkana to the Louisiana border is complete. I-49 from Shreveport, LA to Lafayette, LA is complete. I-49 from the Arkansas line to Shreveport and from Lafayette to New Orleans is under construction.

This will really benefit NWA once it's completed, giving y'all interstate access to the port at New Orleans and with I-69 in Shreveport, interstate access to Houston and Mexico. Re-reading old comments I really think Arkansas' stretch of 49 is more important than what's been discussed. The more interstates there are in a metro area, the easier it is to diversify your economy. And NWA will be well set with easy access to 49, 40, and 44.

So completing I-49 from Texarkana to New Orleans is going to signficantly benefit NWA? Or did you really mean completion of I-49 from New Orleans to NWA?

I don't doubt it's importance. I just know that there's $19b worth of *current* highway needs in Arkansas, and only $4b in funds to do them in the next 10 years. It'll cost more than $1b to complete I-49 in Arkansas. Just pointing out the facts. Don't like the facts? Write your Congressman.

[Aporkalypse]

So completing I-49 from Texarkana to New Orleans is going to signficantly benefit NWA? Or did you really mean completion of I-49 from New Orleans to NWA?

I don't doubt it's importance. I just know that there's $19b worth of *current* highway needs in Arkansas, and only $4b in funds to do them in the next 10 years. It'll cost more than $1b to complete I-49 in Arkansas. Just pointing out the facts. Don't like the facts? Write your Congressman.

Funding is going to be a big problem for that stretch of highway. I want our congressmen pushing for more federal highway funding but I'd rather see that funding applied to more urgently needed projects, including widening and better interchanges on I-540.

[Mith242]

Funding is going to be a big problem for that stretch of highway. I want our congressmen pushing for more federal highway funding but I'd rather see that funding applied to more urgently needed projects, including widening and better interchanges on I-540.

Yeah that's why I wonder if many people in NWA will be very supportive of the I-49 stretch through the Ouachitas. That's going to be a huge chunk of money and I think many people are going to prefer to have the money spent on road improvements up here.

[KJW]

Yeah that's why I wonder if many people in NWA will be very supportive of the I-49 stretch through the Ouachitas. That's going to be a huge chunk of money and I think many people are going to prefer to have the money spent on road improvements up here.

Mith, from talking with W-M logistics people...if that Winnie-to-KC-to-New Orleans/Houston=Mexico highway's ever complete it will be heavily, HEAVILY used by truckers...darn right NWA people are going to need a better stretch of it through our metro.

But...do we go ahead and get revenue flow coming in from I-49's Arkansas completion first?

Folks on this board from Missouri have said that Mo's government is going to take U.S. 71 to interstate standards from KC to the Arkansas line. The interstate is already in place north of that city all the way to Canada.

Now we're getting closer and closer to having the Texarkana (actually getting closer and closer to Ashdown, AR in Little River County) to Lafayette, LA stretch complete, it will be interesting to see the attention the FSM-Ashdown section receives...

[Mith242]

Mith, from talking with W-M logistics people...if that Winnie-to-KC-to-New Orleans/Houston=Mexico highway's ever complete it will be heavily, HEAVILY used by truckers...darn right NWA people are going to need a better stretch of it through our metro.

But...do we go ahead and get revenue flow coming in from I-49's Arkansas completion first?

Folks on this board from Missouri have said that Mo's government is going to take U.S. 71 to interstate standards from KC to the Arkansas line. The interstate is already in place north of that city all the way to Canada.

Now we're getting closer and closer to having the Texarkana (actually getting closer and closer to Ashdown, AR in Little River County) to Lafayette, LA stretch complete, it will be interesting to see the attention the FSM-Ashdown section receives...

I just don't think it's going to go over well with people here in NWA. Overall people are going to be more interested in working on roads here in our vicinity rather than the I-49 connection through the Ouachitas. Not trying to say it's not important. But I can already imagine people's reactions if you try to tell them there's no money to complete the 412 Bypass or any improvements for I-540 because the state is going to funnel the money to completing I-49 through the Ouachitas. I don't know if it will end up being as bad as I-540 but I think going through the Ouachitas is going to make it a rather expensive stretch of interstate.

[NCB]

Just to give you guys an update, construction of I-49 from Lafayette to New Orleans has been delayed due to Katrina's affects on the area that it will traverse. No idea when construction will begin on that stretch of the highway, but my guess is sooner than later. However, I-49 between Shreveport and the Arkansas border is under contruction, and moving along quickly. If I have my information right, construction is currently taking place on what will be I-49 in Mira, LA, about 10 miles from the Arkansas border. So my guess would be that within the next 10-15 months, you'll be able to get from Texarkana down to Lafayette via I-49, and hopefully soon enough you'll be able to get all the way down to New Orleans.

[itk]

I just don't think it's going to go over well with people here in NWA. Overall people are going to be more interested in working on roads here in our vicinity rather than the I-49 connection through the Ouachitas. Not trying to say it's not important. But I can already imagine people's reactions if you try to tell them there's no money to complete the 412 Bypass or any improvements for I-540 because the state is going to funnel the money to completing I-49 through the Ouachitas. I don't know if it will end up being as bad as I-540 but I think going through the Ouachitas is going to make it a rather expensive stretch of interstate.

I think you are 100% correct.

Mith, from talking with W-M logistics people...if that Winnie-to-KC-to-New Orleans/Houston=Mexico highway's ever complete it will be heavily, HEAVILY used by truckers...darn right NWA people are going to need a better stretch of it through our metro.

But...do we go ahead and get revenue flow coming in from I-49's Arkansas completion first?

Folks on this board from Missouri have said that Mo's government is going to take U.S. 71 to interstate standards from KC to the Arkansas line. The interstate is already in place north of that city all the way to Canada.

Now we're getting closer and closer to having the Texarkana (actually getting closer and closer to Ashdown, AR in Little River County) to Lafayette, LA stretch complete, it will be interesting to see the attention the FSM-Ashdown section receives...

Missouri has it much easier, since (1) the terrain is rather flat and (2) almost all of it is either freeway or expressway. So all they really need to do is upgrade the existing route and build some new locations in certain areas.

Oh, and BTW I double checked the projected cost for I-49 completion in Western Arkansas-- it's $2.4 billion (and that's in 2006 dollars).

[KJW]

I think you are 100% correct.

Missouri has it much easier, since (1) the terrain is rather flat and (2) almost all of it is either freeway or expressway. So all they really need to do is upgrade the existing route and build some new locations in certain areas.

Oh, and BTW I double checked the projected cost for I-49 completion in Western Arkansas-- it's $2.4 billion (and that's in 2006 dollars).

itk, a question.

Is there any way, do you think, to GENUINELY study (not just make up numbers) what the long term economic impact of a complete I-49 for Arkansas would be, assuming the Winnie - KC - New Orleans/Houston=Mexico connections did indeed come to fruition?

I'm just wondering if it'd be possible to see how long it would take to recoup that 2.4 billion if John "51" Hammons and Wal-Mart really think this would be a great deal.

(Of course, if JQH and W-M would actually pay for the expansion...)

[itk]

itk, a question.

Is there any way, do you think, to GENUINELY study (not just make up numbers) what the long term economic impact of a complete I-49 for Arkansas would be, assuming the Winnie - KC - New Orleans/Houston=Mexico connections did indeed come to fruition?

I'm just wondering if it'd be possible to see how long it would take to recoup that 2.4 billion if John "51" Hammons and Wal-Mart really think this would be a great deal.

(Of course, if JQH and W-M would actually pay for the expansion...)

Major investment studies have already been done on I-49 long ago to justify it. FHWA has already signed off on it.

The I-49 coalition and others with money can fund another study to gain political support. But I would be highly suspect of such studies. Unfortunately, that happens all the time-- politicans and their constituents come up with the answer first, then justify it with an investment study.

I think at this point it is very difficult, no matter how seemingly genuine a study is, to justify getting even hundreds of millions of federal dollars for I-49. The Highway Trust Fund is running out of money, we're still paying for Katrina, and we will be paying for the War on Terror for years to come. All that will likely continue to cut into transportation funding. That, and inflation for steel, concrete, and petroleum (although that has settled down lately) continues to go up faster than funds come in.

To get the big players to convince Boozman (who sits on the House Transportation Committee) and others that I-49 is a great idea is one thing. For Congress to actually agree to inserting hundreds of millions or billions into a highway bill for I-49 is another. It would take more powerful Congressmen from MO, LA, and AR for that to have a chance of happening in the near future.

I-69 has much more political support, and even that is moving at a snails pace.

But if you think I'm just the bearer of bad news, there is some good news for Arkansas-- come next year when the state legistative session meets, there is a good chance AHTD will get more funds-- perhaps hundreds of millions of dollars more for roads. Wouldn't be enough for I-49, but I thought I'd mention it.

[Mith242]

Major investment studies have already been done on I-49 long ago to justify it. FHWA has already signed off on it.

The I-49 coalition and others with money can fund another study to gain political support. But I would be highly suspect of such studies. Unfortunately, that happens all the time-- politicans and their constituents come up with the answer first, then justify it with an investment study.

I think at this point it is very difficult, no matter how seemingly genuine a study is, to justify getting even hundreds of millions of federal dollars for I-49. The Highway Trust Fund is running out of money, we're still paying for Katrina, and we will be paying for the War on Terror for years to come. All that will likely continue to cut into transportation funding. That, and inflation for steel, concrete, and petroleum (although that has settled down lately) continues to go up faster than funds come in.

To get the big players to convince Boozman (who sits on the House Transportation Committee) and others that I-49 is a great idea is one thing. For Congress to actually agree to inserting hundreds of millions or billions into a highway bill for I-49 is another. It would take more powerful Congressmen from MO, LA, and AR for that to have a chance of happening in the near future.

I-69 has much more political support, and even that is moving at a snails pace.

But if you think I'm just the bearer of bad news, there is some good news for Arkansas-- come next year when the state legistative session meets, there is a good chance AHTD will get more funds-- perhaps hundreds of millions of dollars more for roads. Wouldn't be enough for I-49, but I thought I'd mention it.

Very good points. Especially the fact of how things are in today's world and getting funding is going to be even harder. I haven't seen the figure in a long time but what are we spending a day in Iraq?

[KJW]

Mith, agreed in some ways.

However, I remember president Ike pushed for the federal interstate system due to problems with interstate troop and equipment movements in the U.S. during WWII. Again, who knows (especially with Texas ambitious highway plans) what the demand for a Canada/U.S./Mexico interstate truly is (and even though it parallels the Kansas City Southern, which is becoming known as the "NAFTA railway", I discount the connection because you don't see unit coal and grain trucks on the interstates as you see them on the KCS) but...well, I defer to itk. (itk, when will they be updating that .pdf file y ou furnished with all the congressional interstate priority information?)

BTW, a friend of mine from Neosho MO said its amazing how fast they're blacktopping the interstate south of Anderson, MO which is supposed to link to the Bella Vista tollway. Interstingly, most of the proposed I-49, from Mena, AR (two counties south of Fort Smith) southward will be no more hilly, I don't believe, than McDonald, and I believe it dramatically levels off, at least in comparison to the Ouachitas, in Polk County around Hatfield and Cove immediately south of Mena. The hilliest portion will be from the Scott County line to Mena.

[Mith242]

Mith, agreed in some ways.

However, I remember president Ike pushed for the federal interstate system due to problems with interstate troop and equipment movements in the U.S. during WWII. Again, who knows (especially with Texas ambitious highway plans) what the demand for a Canada/U.S./Mexico interstate truly is (and even though it parallels the Kansas City Southern, which is becoming known as the "NAFTA railway", I discount the connection because you don't see unit coal and grain trucks on the interstates as you see them on the KCS) but...well, I defer to itk. (itk, when will they be updating that .pdf file y ou furnished with all the congressional interstate priority information?)

BTW, a friend of mine from Neosho MO said its amazing how fast they're blacktopping the interstate south of Anderson, MO which is supposed to link to the Bella Vista tollway. Interstingly, most of the proposed I-49, from Mena, AR (two counties south of Fort Smith) southward will be no more hilly, I don't believe, than McDonald, and I believe it dramatically levels off, at least in comparison to the Ouachitas, in Polk County around Hatfield and Cove immediately south of Mena. The hilliest portion will be from the Scott County line to Mena.

I think the Ouachitas will provide a unique challenge as compared to the Ozarks. Or perhaps I should say different challenge. There are certainly more flat spots through the Ouachitas. The problem is all the east-west ridges of the Ouachitas. Seems to me they'll either have to blast through them, build a lot of bridges to lessen the grade up to the tops of them, or have the highway 'meander' quite a bit to the east and west to try to avoid most of the ridges.

[Aporkalypse]

But if you think I'm just the bearer of bad news, there is some good news for Arkansas-- come next year when the state legistative session meets, there is a good chance AHTD will get more funds-- perhaps hundreds of millions of dollars more for roads. Wouldn't be enough for I-49, but I thought I'd mention it.

That's good, I can think of a number of smaller projects that are priorities, including upgradings intersections with I-540 in NWA.

I-49's going to be a problem to get funded and everyone sees it. We already have a much heavier burden because we rank near the top in interstate miles per capita and in the bottom in money generated by taxes to pay for them. Federal funds would be better spent on improving existing highways including I-540 in NWA.

[itk]

Mith, agreed in some ways.

However, I remember president Ike pushed for the federal interstate system due to problems with interstate troop and equipment movements in the U.S. during WWII. Again, who knows (especially with Texas ambitious highway plans) what the demand for a Canada/U.S./Mexico interstate truly is (and even though it parallels the Kansas City Southern, which is becoming known as the "NAFTA railway", I discount the connection because you don't see unit coal and grain trucks on the interstates as you see them on the KCS) but...well, I defer to itk. (itk, when will they be updating that .pdf file y ou furnished with all the congressional interstate priority information?)

BTW, a friend of mine from Neosho MO said its amazing how fast they're blacktopping the interstate south of Anderson, MO which is supposed to link to the Bella Vista tollway. Interstingly, most of the proposed I-49, from Mena, AR (two counties south of Fort Smith) southward will be no more hilly, I don't believe, than McDonald, and I believe it dramatically levels off, at least in comparison to the Ouachitas, in Polk County around Hatfield and Cove immediately south of Mena. The hilliest portion will be from the Scott County line to Mena.

Well, you never know what the future holds. Things can unexpectedly change.

Trying to push a massive increase in highway spending takes political leadership and risk. Arkansas may potentially come up with another bond proposal in the future to help pay for highway projects. Portions of future I-49 in WArk could be included. (It would have to go before the voters.) Several states are trying to do that lately-- the biggest example is California, where the Governator and the Legislators have placed a $20 billion transportation bond proposal on their Nov ballot. That'll be very interesting to see if it passes.

The pdf I think you are referring to was the 2006 Ark Hwy Imp Plan? That was recently finalized. I don't know if it's still on their website, since it is apparently down right now. (www.arkansashighways.com) I'll check back later.