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I-49 One Step Closer to Being Realized


johnnydr87

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That's good, I can think of a number of smaller projects that are priorities, including upgradings intersections with I-540 in NWA.

I-49's going to be a problem to get funded and everyone sees it. We already have a much heavier burden because we rank near the top in interstate miles per capita and in the bottom in money generated by taxes to pay for them. Federal funds would be better spent on improving existing highways including I-540 in NWA.

Yeah, Arkansas has the 12th largest highway system (based on mileage) in the US, which is comparable to much, much larger states like California and New York. Yet we only get a tiny fraction of the money those bigger states do. Which means most of our money goes to maintence, rather than building new roads or widening existing roads.

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Yeah, Arkansas has the 12th largest highway system (based on mileage) in the US, which is comparable to much, much larger states like California and New York. Yet we only get a tiny fraction of the money those bigger states do. Which means most of our money goes to maintence, rather than building new roads or widening existing roads.

I've got an odd question for you. Why does Arkansas have such a large highway system for being as small as we are? Also do you think maybe we shouldn't have spent so much money on so many highways so we'd have more money to focus on a certain amount of roads? I guess it's too late now though. It would seem silly to simply stop maintenance on a highway just because someone suddenly decided it wasn't as important as others.

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Maybe we have a large highway system because of all the towns....

We had some staff worker for Blanche Lincoln speak to our high school government class and he talked about how Arkansas was different from other states in that it had so many towns.

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Maybe we have a large highway system because of all the towns....

We had some staff worker for Blanche Lincoln speak to our high school government class and he talked about how Arkansas was different from other states in that it had so many towns.

Too many towns and not enough population. It's now wonder Arkansas doesn't get the funding it needs for transportation. What Arkansas needs is a couple more large metros the size of Little Rock. All other states the size of Arkansas have at least 2 or 3 large metros with state populations 2 to 3 times that of Arkansas. Sounds simple enough.

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Maybe we have a large highway system because of all the towns....

We had some staff worker for Blanche Lincoln speak to our high school government class and he talked about how Arkansas was different from other states in that it had so many towns.

I think other eastern states have quite a few towns as well. Maybe it's because Arkansas is trying to get all of them to grow into larger towns and cities. Whereas other states seem more willing to allow many of theirs to stay the way they are.

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I think other eastern states have quite a few towns as well. Maybe it's because Arkansas is trying to get all of them to grow into larger towns and cities. Whereas other states seem more willing to allow many of theirs to stay the way they are.

I'd check my facts before I'd quote that "12th largest" figure. I really find that hard to believe. That could be 12th largest per capita which makes a huge difference...

I understand the need to upgrade the existing 540 with new lanes and interchanges. But I would argue that that's a local approach, and any interstate needs a regional approach. Having I-49 would help insulate NWA from future economic declines which are inevitable, even in the best economies.

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I'd check my facts before I'd quote that "12th largest" figure. I really find that hard to believe. That could be 12th largest per capita which makes a huge difference...

I understand the need to upgrade the existing 540 with new lanes and interchanges. But I would argue that that's a local approach, and any interstate needs a regional approach. Having I-49 would help insulate NWA from future economic declines which are inevitable, even in the best economies.

Why is it hard to believe? Itk stated 12th largest in terms of mileage. Texas and California are huge geographically and in terms of population, but many other states with large populations are relatively small geographically. And many of the states which are larger geographically have vast wide open spaces with no people. I can easily see how Arkansas would fall 12th in the ranking.

Not to mention that itk is not someone I would be telling to check his facts, when it comes to roads anyway.

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Not to mention that itk is not someone I would be telling to check his facts, when it comes to roads anyway.

Ooookay... :huh:

Why is it hard to believe? Itk stated 12th largest in terms of mileage. Texas and California are huge geographically and in terms of population, but many other states with large populations are relatively small geographically. And many of the states which are larger geographically have vast wide open spaces with no people. I can easily see how Arkansas would fall 12th in the ranking.

I believe I know which study you're referring to, and I'd be careful with that because in it Louisiana is referred to as having 16,700 miles compared to Arkansas's 98,000. I find that very, very hard to believe. One of those figures is seriously wrong.

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I'd check my facts before I'd quote that "12th largest" figure. I really find that hard to believe. That could be 12th largest per capita which makes a huge difference...

I understand the need to upgrade the existing 540 with new lanes and interchanges. But I would argue that that's a local approach, and any interstate needs a regional approach. Having I-49 would help insulate NWA from future economic declines which are inevitable, even in the best economies.

It seems I've always heard Arkansas is very high up despite us not being a very big state. I can imagine itk can go into more detail. I should also point out he works for the Arkansas Highway & Transportation Dept, so he's rather knowledgable on this kind of stuff.

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Ooookay... :huh:

I believe I know which study you're referring to, and I'd be careful with that because in it Louisiana is referred to as having 16,700 miles compared to Arkansas's 98,000. I find that very, very hard to believe. One of those figures is seriously wrong.

Itk is a very highly regarded person when it comes to Interstates and transportation. He happens to work for the highway department (sorry Itk), so I think he knows what he's talking about.

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Itk is a very highly regarded person when it comes to Interstates and transportation. He happens to work for the highway department (sorry Itk), so I think he knows what he's talking about.

Not disputing. Just pointing out a discrepancy in a study I'm sure Itk had nothing to do with (that's why I'm saying it's wrong) :P

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I'd check my facts before I'd quote that "12th largest" figure. I really find that hard to believe. That could be 12th largest per capita which makes a huge difference...

I understand the need to upgrade the existing 540 with new lanes and interchanges. But I would argue that that's a local approach, and any interstate needs a regional approach. Having I-49 would help insulate NWA from future economic declines which are inevitable, even in the best economies.

I actually think it is per capita, though I hate to speak for itk (who as mcheiss said is the closest thing to an insider on the topic as you'll find on UP). The problem is that Arkansas has a ton of interstate miles and a sparse population to pay for their upkeep. I know Arkansas is 42nd in taxes raised per highway mile.

Also, I-40 between Little Rock and Memphis is the busiest segment of interstate in the nation because it carries both the I-40 traffic from the West Coast via OKC and I-30 traffic from the Southwest via DFW onto one segment to Memphis. The semis just shred that section of freeway.

I would argue that I-49 through Western Arkansas serves no real purpose, largely connecting points already well-connected via other routes. The only real advantage would be to connect Louisiana with KC which probably isn't really that important a trade route. The expense to build and maintain it would far outweigh any economic advantages a modestly traveled interestate like that would bring. The US Hwy (71) between Ft Smith and Texarkana is barely used.

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I would argue that I-49 through Western Arkansas serves no real purpose, largely connecting points already well-connected via other routes. The only real advantage would be to connect Louisiana with KC which probably isn't really that important a trade route. The expense to build and maintain it would far outweigh any economic advantages a modestly traveled interestate like that would bring. The US Hwy (71) between Ft Smith and Texarkana is barely used.

That is a valid argument. I suppose you could say though that perhaps if there was a better road in place the route between Ft Smith and Texarkana would be more used. I imagine it would also help if the pros for I-49 were known for certain. It could possibly turn into a big deal that had a lot of economic impact. But as itk has mentioned AHTD numbers don't make it seem like there's a huge demand for an interstate in that area. I think the biggest aspect is the potential for a major north-south route. But I'm not sure if that would develop or if another interstate will simply be used instead.

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I've got an odd question for you. Why does Arkansas have such a large highway system for being as small as we are? Also do you think maybe we shouldn't have spent so much money on so many highways so we'd have more money to focus on a certain amount of roads? I guess it's too late now though. It would seem silly to simply stop maintenance on a highway just because someone suddenly decided it wasn't as important as others.

I've always heard that it was some political bargain the State did with the counties back in the early 1900's-- each county gave the State a county road to put on their system in exchange for something, like political support or some such. I don't know of any other state that did the same thing, but I think that's said and done.

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ITK, I don't know if these are the same maps, but here's some other ones. If they're dragging their feet on I-69 who knows what will happen in I-49 Arkansas, but these are still intriguing. (BTW, I think some of the interstates below have been built or are almost there, i.e. Memphis - Birmingham.)

Yes, that map shows some of the HPC's (high priority corridors) designated by Congress (I don't know why it doesn't show all of them... about every state has one). I-49 actually has two HPC's overlapping on it in Arkansas (I don't know why). HPC's are just like they sound. Doesn't necessarily mean they will get funding tomorrow, but it does mean they are recognized by Congress as, well, a high priority corridor for future funding.

I'd check my facts before I'd quote that "12th largest" figure. I really find that hard to believe. That could be 12th largest per capita which makes a huge difference...

I understand the need to upgrade the existing 540 with new lanes and interchanges. But I would argue that that's a local approach, and any interstate needs a regional approach. Having I-49 would help insulate NWA from future economic declines which are inevitable, even in the best economies.

Here's the Arkansas Highway Improvement Plan. It's a pdf. Look on page 12, second sentence.

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Ooookay... :huh:

I believe I know which study you're referring to, and I'd be careful with that because in it Louisiana is referred to as having 16,700 miles compared to Arkansas's 98,000. I find that very, very hard to believe. One of those figures is seriously wrong.

If you are referring to the Arkansas Highway Improvement Plan, I don't know where you are seeing that. Those numbers aren't in there.

I think their data came from the HPMS-- Highway Performance Monitoring System-- which is compiled by FHWA from each state.

Arkansas State Highway mileage: 16,419 miles.

California State Highway mileage: 15,209 miles.

New York State Highway mileage: 15,637 miles.

I couldn't find Louisiana's mileage, but I pulled this from the internet (Louisiana should have roughly the same amount of mileage). You could probably have found this information too, I'm sure.

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You could probably have found this information too, I'm sure.

I'm sure you're right. Thanks for pointing that out.

Great document attached above, btw. The total mileage of public roads in Arkansas is just over 98,000. The state-maintained portion is over 16,000. That's the discrepancy, and the answer to my question.

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Comments from former Louisiana senator J. Bennett Johnston at that I-49 meeting yesterday:

The project is designed and the environmental impact studies are done, Johnston told the members of the I-49 International Conference at the Embassy Suites hotel in Rogers. "All that's needed is money," Johnston said. The estimated cost of the Arkansas portion of the project, the largest portion, is $2 billion.

There is no special category of federal transportation funding earmarked for projects "that are ready to go," Johnston told the group, which meets again today at the Embassy Suites. To get one, the coalition needs to develop a detailed, multistate strategy that its various representatives in Congress can agree on and support when the next federal transportation bill comes up in 2009, he said.

The strategy needs to be much more detailed than "get the money, then build the road," Johnston said. Specific proposals could include raising the federal tax on gasoline to adjust for inflation since the last increase, he said. That would add about 5.4 cents per gallon, according to Johnston.

Another option that needs to be closely studied is using toll roads. That would require detailed analysis and a specific proposal to take to Congress, he said.

and;

"The Wal-Marts of this world, you're going to have to get your number-crunchers involved," Johnston said. "The J.B. Hunts of the world will have to calculate how much tire wear and time you'll save." Wal-Mart is the world's largest retailer and J.B. Hunt Transport Service is one of the nation's largest trucking firms. Both have their headquarters along the route of I-49.

"I don't know what this kind of legislation would look like or pass," Johnston said.

Dan Flowers, director of the Arkansas Highway and Transportation Department, said toll roads were being used in the Bella Vista bypass project, which is due for completion in 2010. He said that, while traffic counts along the I-49 route appear too light in some places to justify a toll road, he believes those counts would pick up drastically if a direct route was open from Kansas City to New Orleans.

http://www.nwaonline.com/articles/2006/10/...s/101706i49.txt

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Comments from former Louisiana senator J. Bennett Johnston at that I-49 meeting yesterday:

and;

I can't find it on this quote, but I read in today's Benton County Record that the completion of this highway will mean an estimated $800 million per year savings...ostensibly for shippers and ultimately the consumer? If I can find that quote I'll put it here, but I'm not sure that documentation for it was included in the article.

Developers, pension-fund directors and other investors want to help finance highway infrastructure on the front end, members of the I-49 International Coalition learned during a daylong conference in Rogers.

The faster roads get built, the faster investment returns can be had through such things as increased tax base, toll fees or concession rights, Gard Wayt, the coalition

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I can't find it on this quote, but I read in today's Benton County Record that the completion of this highway will mean an estimated $800 million per year savings...ostensibly for shippers and ultimately the consumer? If I can find that quote I'll put it here, but I'm not sure that documentation for it was included in the article.

Here's the quote...it was in the newspaper but not on the same article on the web site:

The interstate is already completed between Kansas City and Winnipeg, Canada. Completing the highway's souther connection will create an uninterrpted international trade corridor from Canada through the port system of Louisiana. When completed, the "palms to pines highway" will intersect nine existing east-west interstate highways. The completed corridor will save up to $817 million in annual transportation costs by cutting travel time and congestion, said U.S. Rep. Mike Ross, D-Ark.

Interesting factoid...mapquest.com says it's actually slightly less mileage from Duluth Minnesota (major great lakes port) to Beaumont, Texas (partially following the U.S. 71 corridor) than it is from Duluth to New Orleans.

Beaumont's a major port but nowhere near on the order of N.O., but I find that interesting nonetheless.

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Yes! Access to ports galore, and once I-69 is finished, direct access to Mexico and the ports of Houston and Corpus Christi. I'm sorry, but this seems like a very good idea.

I think the biggest question is getting the funding for it. Especially when there are already a lot of highway needs existing in NWA. With the government spending so much money in Iraq and such they aren't handing out the money like they used to.

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I think the biggest question is getting the funding for it. Especially when there are already a lot of highway needs existing in NWA. With the government spending so much money in Iraq and such they aren't handing out the money like they used to.

Speaking of funding:

- Missouri DOT officials have "found" money to build a highway 90 interchange for the new bypass...I'm kind of surprised that wasn't originally in there as this is the main east/west road between Noel, MO and Jane (it's at the interchange where the Steak out restaurant is). There will be on/off ramps between this and the future I-49.

- The same article in The McDonald County Press says there will be a "bi-state public meeting for the Bella Vista bypass" (I think you referred to this earlier, itk) on Thursday, Nov. 16 from 4-7 p.m. at the Bella Vista, AR Baptist Church (Grace Hall). The church is located at 50 E. Lancashire Blvd. in Bella Vista. Among other things, the BV bypass project timetable will be discussed.

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Hey all! I am considering a job offer/relocation to Ft. Smith but have never been to the area. The reason I'm hitting this thread is because I google'd the Ft. Smtih to Texarkana drive and came up with this discussion. You guys seem to be just the ones I'm looking for to answer some of my questions.

My wife, kids, and I currently live in Central Indiana, but my in-laws live in the Houston area. One of the "pros" of considering a move to Ft. Smith is how much closer we'd be to my in-laws (if you can call that a "pro" :P ), but when I look on a map or research routes it doesn't seem like there is a particularly good route from Ft. Smith to Houston.

How big of a P.I.T.A. is the drive from Ft. Smith to Texarkana? We usually take US-59 S from Texarkana to Houston on our trip from Indiana to Texas, because I try to avoid I-10 at all costs :) I also like the drive through East Texas as it's much less stressful and prettier. However, the recommneded route from Ft. Smith to Houston is to go to OKC to Dallas to I-45 South to Houston. This seems WAY out of the way.

Also, one other question from this dummy not used to Arkansas geography...what exactly comprimises NWA area that you all speak of in this thread? I assume the acronym is for Northwest Arkansas...is that the Rogers / Fayetteville area? Like I said, this is one of the few areas of the country I've not been to so I'm not familiar. All of this info is somewhat trivial in considering a new job, but weighs into the equation none the less.

THanks in advance for the info!

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