NoDa (N Davidson St Arts District) Projects

[Guest]

That particular warehouse (and the already-gone wells fargo) are victims to the pending sugar creek grade separation. Davidson and other adjacent roads are going to be reconfigured, 

I stand correct, must have been looking at the wrong permit

[kermit]

Is the painted Albari sign on the face of the building new, or am I just slow to notice?

 

edit: thanks ISP, the things I don't notice sometimes shock me (I drive by that sign everyday)

Edited August 27, 2015 by kermit

[InSouthPark]

Is the painted Albari sign on the face of the building new, or am I just slow to notice?

Been there since Birdsong moved! I remember seeing the guy painting it while I was walking from Noda to Birdsong in the late spring. 

[InitialD]

The Chop Shop is currently shopping on a new space. I think they are planning on making a decision by late October or November. One of the places I've heard they are looking at is the warehouse at 200 E 36th Street, which is currently home to SEEDS/100 Gardens, Makerspace Charlotte, Charlotte Community Radio, and COTU acting guild. The main warehouse space is a little smaller than what they are hoping for, because they want enough room to have two stages again. Has anybody heard about what other spaces they may be looking at?

[DEnd]

Last I heard they were in negotiations.  I can't say where (because I don't know). 

[kermit]

I assume I saw a gaggle (5 or 6) suited Crescent execs kicking dirt and taking notes over that the old Abernathy Lumber site on Craighead this morning.

[tozmervo]

I believe the proper term for a grouping of developers is "A Cackle of Developers" 

http://www.thealmightyguru.com/Pointless/AnimalGroups.html

[Prodev]

I assume I saw a gaggle (5 or 6) suited Crescent execs kicking dirt and taking notes over that the old Abernathy Lumber site on Craighead this morning.

Crescent dropped the deal and withdrew the rezoning. Cushman is currently marketing this entire parcel plus the piece just past the Matheson bridge that was recently rezoned. 

[Matthew.Brendan]

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/business/biz-columns-blogs/development/article33713178.html

 

any thoughts on why Crescent pulled out?

[Prodev]

Environmental issues primarily. 

[UPNoDa]

How nice would it be if we could extend NoDa proper and have it look like this. Not sure where exactly..maybe just under the BLE on 36th St across from Crescent property if there were enough room.

There was mention somewhere here on UP about Charlotte architecture and why it is so beige/plain yet the town of Cornelius approves this in their tiny hamlet. 

This construction pic is from Cornelius heading into Antiquity on Catawba Ave. It is technically not in Downtown Cornelius but more of an extension of Cornelius further east on Catawba Ave. It reminds me of small town NC in the 1950's. Isn't it great when creativity sparks the mind of an Architect to re-create something like this and bring it to fruition. Too bad we can't have this type of architecture code standard here in NoDa since we are a small town/village.   

Just awesome and kudos to the town of Cornelius. 

 

[SgtCampsalot]

^^Nice to see you, neighbor!!! 

Yeah, the city has a harder time of navigating good architectural design because the small towns don't have developers knocking down their doors for the opportunity to build something. It's somewhat a consolation that CLT has managed to mandate good URBAN design to at least extend the urban fabric and streetscapes in the urban hoods.

Thankfully, the tenacity of the NoDa Neighborhood & Business Association is the most effective and progressive voice for these design matters that matter. Like including art in the projects, and not limiting themselves in their color schemes (like the fact that Mercury is actually using multiple colors in their siding-facades? Unheard of in South End) Sadly, certain things need to be looked at with the appropriate perspective, but the NBA is in a wonderful place to effect these issues.

I hope, and suspect, that even though the NC legislature banned the protest petition, it will not limit NoDa's voice in development matters. Honestly, it doesn't mean that the NBA cannot still write letters to city council. It doesn't mean we can't show up to rezoning meetings (which, hopefully by the time they're done rewriting the zoning codes, it'll be less of a circus), and besides, NoDa is the only urban hood that grew from itself, not from development, so that culture of art, involvement, and passion will not fade unless we succumb to apathy

[Spartan]

You can thank Cornelius's form-based code for that. Hopefully Charlotte is taking notes during it's zoning code re-write.

[archiham04]

How nice would it be if we could extend NoDa proper and have it look like this. Not sure where exactly..maybe just under the BLE on 36th St across from Crescent property if there were enough room.

There was mention somewhere here on UP about Charlotte architecture and why it is so beige/plain yet the town of Cornelius approves this in their tiny hamlet. 

This construction pic is from Cornelius heading into Antiquity on Catawba Ave. It is technically not in Downtown Cornelius but more of an extension of Cornelius further east on Catawba Ave. It reminds me of small town NC in the 1950's. Isn't it great when creativity sparks the mind of an Architect to re-create something like this and bring it to fruition. Too bad we can't have this type of architecture code standard here in NoDa since we are a small town/village.   

Just awesome and kudos to the town of Cornelius. 

 

I understand and sympathize with your sentiment, but an architect might take exception to your interpretation of creativity.  Many architects do not appreciate being asked to copy old examples of traditional architecture, and would take exception to the suggestion that doing so is a creative activity...   I am not taking this mantle mind you, but felt obliged to lay out for you an opposing view.

[SgtCampsalot]

^That's interesting. I hadn't thought of that in such a perspective. Do you think this is a residual effect from Ayn Rand/The Fountainhead's Howard Rourk's reverence of the Architect (with captial A)?

Seems to me part of the problem that got us into the sprawl mess was the excessive focus on one building rather than the context of what's around the building.

[tozmervo]

I don't think it has anything to do with Fountainhead. There are just certain schools of thought in design that plastering a historicish look over a metal frame wall is a cheap and meaningless response. You don't really need an architect to do that. 

The aesthetic style of a building has nothing to do with it's context [I'm aware that's an arguable statement]. You can have a perfectly lovely modernist project in the middle of renaissance buildings and it works. Europe an most major American cities are full of such examples. In the new south, what we most often see is crappy modern responses to street life, so there's a quick assumption that the street isn't working because it's modern in style.

[archiham04]

I think it goes beyond the single Architect and/or ownership of design and an individualistic expression.  I think that many architects, and lovers of history, and architecture, see the world's architecture and like that their have been different styles throughout history.  I think there is also an appreciation that many of these styles exist within the era in which they were built.  Copying older architecture, and worse having a municipality mandate an older style, is seen as an affront to the character of the historic built environment.  

As with architects having an Ayn Rand mentality and being  "part of the problem that got us into the sprawl mess"....this an unfortunate narrative I have seen recently being spun by New-Urbanists that have been shunned by architectural academia.  You can imagine, given the perspective above, the over-emphasis of traditional architecture in New-Urbanism, does not sit well with architects.

Now "Star-chitects" do exist, but to suggest that an architect and his personal expression of design is the reason for loss of context, is giving the architect WAY too much credit... especially in Charlotte.  Developers, consumers, and investors are dictating your built environment here.

[SgtCampsalot]

Well said, I hear you. I suppose The Star-chitect is an easy scapegoat for New Urbanist demagoguery when the real reasoning behind many of the problems is a complex web of factors.

[SgtCampsalot]

Hey guys, I hope this thread is okay for this. I could really use some advice about purchasing real estate along the N Davidson corridor. My wife and I have been renting in NoDa/VH/OP/Belmont for almost 7 years, and we recently started making enough to seriously consider purchasing something. Based on the mortgage calculators on all the real estate sites, our budget is below 200K, for a $1000/month payment budget. Now, I know single-family homes are rarely in that range here unless they're in terrible shape. But in the interest to no longer paying rent and starting to pay into something for equity as soon as possible (especially before the BLE begins service), we are thinking our best bet is either a townhome/loft/condo in NoDa, or a middle-of-the-road-quality house in Belmont/OP (where we lived for two years and are comfortable in).

So my biggest questions involve the townhome/condo situation (which, do any of NoDa's inventory technically qualify as "condo"?), a topic we are woefully naive about. We'd need a 2 bedroom regardless:

-Steel Gardens: These would easily be our first pick (It gets points for North Charlotte Park and their great street design). But they are almost all above 200K. Though I noticed on Zillow that some 2BRs have been purchased in the past for under that (see image below). What determines that? Are some 2BRs cheaper, or was it likely just a motivated/desperate seller in the recession? Also what are Association Fees, etc? How do so many people afford these units when they're the same price or higher than so many houses? Are townhomes easier to finance at better rates? 

- The Renaissance: I've read previous pages about this development, and they are less than hailing:

- They aren't the best quality and they aren't the most updated, generally. 

- I think much of Renaissance is more like apartments that are sold as condos, and as such has a pretty high renter-occupied rate. I'm across the tracks in Steel Gardens, and the typical impression is that Renaissance is a little bit more "wild and crazy," college style. 

- I have heard that there are issues with the Renaissance construction.  The remedies seem to be a matter of contention and problems are serious and persist.

So my question is, would anyone with experience consider these a worthwhile stepping-stone-home/investment if they really do end up being the ONLY ones in our price range? I mean, if we can't afford the SFHs, or the good-quality townhomes, then are we just out of luck? I obviously wouldn't want to have to repair something every few months (though how much of that is covered by Association Fees, etc?)

- Duncan Gardens: I'd never considered these, but I just saw this listing for buying one on Zillow. Has anyone heard anything about this place? I used to live at Edgeline on 15th, so I'm fine with the neighborhood, but I don't know much about these. What is your take on how these will appreciate (or not) in the next 5-10 years? Obv as newer units are built in OP, these will seem old and boringly designed, but if they're an affordable way to live near the BLE while paying into something, could it be worth it? (Better or worse than Renaissance?)

We feel so personally and emotionally invested in this side of town, and we don't want to have to leave it just to afford our first mortgage if there's a way we can parlay a stepping-stone purchase for later when we make more money (in the next 5 years maybe?).

Thanks for your insight, and for indulging me!

 

Edited October 6, 2015 by SgtCampsalot

[archiham04]

I think Duncan Gardens has potential.  I don't think many (if any) have appreciated from their original price.  I bought one in the original wave for 130 in 2006 and it is worth about 130 now (not currently an owner BTW).  I was hoping for a swift construction of the light rail and appreciation of value.  but that never came... that being said... the anticipated growth/change is now immanent.  

I have noticed that they have added a security fence, so crime might be an issue.  Construction Quality was decent.. but don't know any current history or the current condition.

[tozmervo]

As a SG resident, I can help you with some of that. The under-200s you are seeing are new-construction units that sold about two years ago. They are selling for 205-210 now and heading north with appreciation and increased demand. Current association fees are $266/mo that includes water/sewer/trash/security/cable/internet/landscaping. The HOA is working on a couple of things that may reduce that number going forward. 

Renaissance has a fairly poor reputation within the neighborhood, but I think is otherwise a safe place if you need a foothold. The maintenance thing could be a problem, though - I frequently see what looks like major exterior repairs being done on some of their buildings.

I'm not familiar with Duncan Gardens.

[rjp212]

Just sent you a message.  If you are open to Optimist Park and Villa Heights, then I would also suggest looking at Plaza Shamrock.  A LOT of new builds and renovated homes over there.  Can easily find a 2 bedroom house around 200k there.

[Spartan]

I don't think it has anything to do with Fountainhead. There are just certain schools of thought in design that plastering a historicish look over a metal frame wall is a cheap and meaningless response. You don't really need an architect to do that. 

The aesthetic style of a building has nothing to do with it's context [I'm aware that's an arguable statement]. You can have a perfectly lovely modernist project in the middle of renaissance buildings and it works. Europe an most major American cities are full of such examples. In the new south, what we most often see is crappy modern responses to street life, so there's a quick assumption that the street isn't working because it's modern in style.

There are essentially two concepts that need to be considered here: architecture and urban design. They both work together to create a good building and a good place, but at the end of the day, the urban design of a building will tend to have more of an effect on the space. While I generally hate modern architecture, I acknowledge that it's just my opinion and preference. I will always agree that any architectural style can work well as long as it's designed to function well within its surroundings. An 18th or 19th century city has an established context and style. Buildings constructed before WW2 tend to be well-designed because they only focused on how pedestrians would access the facility. There was also an attention to detail that contemporary buildings lack. One of the reasons modernism works so well in Europe and older cities in America is that they have that rich history of architecture from which a modern or contemporary style can provide contrast (which is what makes it noteworthy).

My issue with the garbage we get in this city stems from the fact that Charlotte lacks the historic architecture to begin with. Because of that, we lack context, and presumably that's why we get a hodgepodge of styles that don't relate to each other.  We get buildings that are inward focused (ie: Epicentre, and pretty much all new apartment buildings in South End) more often than outward focused (Hearst Tower). Further, the modern/contemporary style tends to be "sleek" and have "clean lines" etc., which means it ignores the design features and details that enhance the pedestrian environment and creates uncomfortable places where people don't want to be. The design is what needs to be regulated, not architecture. Design elements can be addressed in a form-based code (which Cornelius has). 

Anyway, in all of this construction we are seeing the establishment of Charlotte's style. That architectural style is going to tend to be more modern than traditional, but IMO the lack of thoughtful urban design is what is generating the complaints more so than the style of architecture itself.

[ah59396]

Is Abari dead?  I saw them out there tearing down some of the porch on Saturday.  Is this Chupitos; part deux?

[CLTProductions]

Is Abari dead?  I saw them out there tearing down some of the porch on Saturday.  Is this Chupitos; part deux?

No this is still rockin n rollin. They had big time trouble getting their permits, but they have them now and are hard at work.....https://www.facebook.com/abarigamebar/posts/1670111976601883

 

 

 

Chupitos on the other hand, ugh. What a waste

Edited October 19, 2015 by Jayvee