Ivy League of the South

[smeagolsfree]

I just tried to research and get a list from the so called experts. What was surprising is that all of the list were as varied as the responses on this thread. Some sites poo-pooed the U.S. News rankings and others had their own criteria. Some ranked only private schools and others were intermingled with pivate and public and then others were catgorized by liberal arts and so forth. Every list I looked at was very different, so this seems to be a matter of opinion and no one will be able to put an accurate list together.

[Charleston native]

Again per US News:

10) Davidson NC

14) Washington and Lee VA

34) University of the South TN

34) Richmond VA

41) Centre KY

41) Furman SC

45) Rhodes TN

55) Agnes Scott GA

55) Wofford SC

61) Southwestern TX

71) Sweet Briar VA

73) Austin TX

73) Hendrix AR

73) Spelman GA

73) Virginia Military Institute VA

81) Milsaps MS

84) Randolph-Macon Womans VA

84) St Mary's MD

88) Birmingham Southern AL

88) Hollins VA

88) New College of Florida FL

94) Goucher MD

104) Hampden-Sydney VA

104) Randolph-Macon VA

104) Translyvania KY

104) Washington MD

OK, I see VMI and Furman, now where's my alma mater, The Citadel? I believe US News ranked them pretty high, yet they're not in this ranking?

[nashvol85]

I prefer top tier state schools myself.

UoFlorida

UoGeorgia

UNC

UoTennessee

UoTexas

UoAlabama

are all very good.

As do I. I attend one of them.

[intcvlcphlga]

Calling them the "Ivy league of the south" is a little degrading.

Having said that...

Vanderbilt

Duke

Emory

Rice

Tulane

UoMiami

I prefer top tier state schools myself.

UoFlorida

UoGeorgia

UNC

UoTennessee

UoTexas

UoAlabama

are all very good.

If you prefer the top state schools, you can't leave out UVa which is regarded as 1st or 2nd best public school in the country every year. And, state schools like William & Mary and Georgia Tech consistently rank higher than the ones on your list except for maybe UNC and Texas.

[nashvol85]

If you prefer the top state schools, you can't leave out UVa which is regarded as 1st or 2nd best public school in the country every year. And, state schools like William & Mary and Georgia Tech consistently rank higher than the ones on your list except for maybe UNC and Texas.

If you notice, all of his listings were "University of (state)". I think his was just a general list...maybe just off the top of his head.

[intcvlcphlga]

If you notice, all of his listings were "University of (state)". I think his was just a general list...maybe just off the top of his head.

All I'm saying is since the post actually said "top tier state schools," the list should be amended to include the University of Virginia, which is considered the best academic public school in the South and arguably the country. Additionally, William & Mary and Georgia Tech (as well as UNC and Texas) are more highly rated public universities (ie. top tier state schools) than Alabama, Georgia, Tennessee, etc.

[nashvol85]

Just how big is William and Mary?

[intcvlcphlga]

Just how big is William and Mary?

7,650 students

[nashvol85]

7,650 students

That's pretty small. Most of the universities he mentioned are in the 20-30,000+ range. When people think of the South's best public schools, I doubt they think of places like William and Mary. Good point on UVA and GT though. Those should definately be mentioned.

[Giovanni]

As a teen who has just gone through the college process, here's a list of the buzz schools:

I came up with this list after talking with friends from across the South (everywhere from NC to FL to TX) and a few from the Midwest and North. They chose these schools based on a combination of notoriety (i.e. prestiege),

academic standing, and selectivity. These are in no particular order:

Private:

• Duke

• Vanderbilt

• Wake Forest

• Emory

• Rice

• Tulane

• Georgetown

• Johns Hopkins

Note: Davidson and Washington and Lee are often top choices, but due to their smaller student body sizes they were often not mentioned.

Public:

• UVA

• UNC

• UGA

• UTexas

[NCtarheel]

According to the book The public Ivies: America's Flagship Private Universities, among southern universities only UVA, UNC, UT-Austin and William & Mary were orginally considered 'public ivies'.

Considering that where you go for undergrad doesn't matter nearly as much as where you go for graduate school usually, my list would include schools according to their undergraduate rankings as well as rankings for the major graduate programs-- law, medicine, engineering and business with extra 'points' for federal research funds. Using these combined rankings my list would probably be:

Duke

UVA

UNC

Emory

U of Texas Austin

Georgetown

Vanderbilt

After that I think it starts to get a little more murky.....wake forest, rice, plus lots of other great schools.

I think the list probably covers all the schools considered strong across the board from undergrad to law/business/medicine/research etc. etc.

That being said my largest issue with the US News rankings is the 'reputation' factor.

[CentralArkansas]

Calling them the "Ivy league of the south" is a little degrading.

How so?

The 8 schools in the Ivy League are without a doubt the most formidable group of schools in this country, or for that matter, the world. They pretty much lead the way, all the others follow.

[brian_2587]

I'm leaving out Davidson because it is tiny. If it were included, then you could probably toss Young Harris in as well.

You've gotta be kidding. Davidson may be tiny, but its one of the best liberal arts schools in the country. Last time I checked some of this nation's best schools are rather small (around 2,000 students or less). Some include: Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore, Carleton, Middlebury, Pomona, Bowdoin. Davidson is ranked right up there with those schools. Young Harris, on the other hand, is not even a four year college.

With that said, The "Ivy League of the South" or "Kudzu League" should probably only include 8 private national univeristies, since that's what the Ivy League is.

But, there really aren't enough southern schools that fit those characteristics. The only ones I can think of are Duke, Vanderbilt, Emory and Wake Forest.

So, I guess I would go ahead and include liberal arts schools and public schools.

Therefore my list would be:

Duke

Vanderbilt

Emory

UNC

UVA

Davidson

Washington & Lee

William & Mary

Wake Forest just misses.

Schools like Auburn, South Carolina, Rollins, Alabama don't even come close.

The only reason I didn't include Georgetown, Johns Hopkins, Rice, and Wash U is because they're not really in the south (Texas is its own bizarre region).

[johnnydr87]

Again per US News:

10) Davidson NC

14) Washington and Lee VA

34) University of the South TN

34) Richmond VA

41) Centre KY

41) Furman SC

45) Rhodes TN

55) Agnes Scott GA

55) Wofford SC

61) Southwestern TX

71) Sweet Briar VA

73) Austin TX

73) Hendrix AR

73) Spelman GA

73) Virginia Military Institute VA

81) Milsaps MS

84) Randolph-Macon Womans VA

84) St Mary's MD

88) Birmingham Southern AL

88) Hollins VA

88) New College of Florida FL

94) Goucher MD

104) Hampden-Sydney VA

104) Randolph-Macon VA

104) Translyvania KY

104) Washington MD

These are rankings among liberal arts colleges, not overall colleges.

That said, I'm applying to Washington and Lee and Hendrix colleges.... I'm also apply to others, but those are in the north.

[lammius]

Leaving schools out simply because they're tiny is a terrible fallacy. Colleges such as William & Mary and Davidson are extremely selective/exclusive institutions. They are not small by accident, and their reputations do more than make up for their size.

I know little of Davidson apart from its academic reputation, but W&M has fought fervently to resist rapid growth. W&M refuses (probably rightfully so) to become a large public university. It will likely forever remain a small public (though very selective) college.

[macsuile]

Here are the true Southern Ivies:

1) UNC

2) UVa

3) William & Mary

4) Georgetown

and the "Little Southern Ivies":

1) Davidson

2) Washington & Lee

As for Duke and Rice, those schools are less than 100 years old so they don't have the substance and foundation to qualify. Emory, Vanderbilt and Wake don't have serious academic reputations.

[mallguy]

I went to one real Ivy and to another school that's being discussed as an additional "Ivy" (in the US News ranking's top-10 list nearly every year). From my own experience, the "additional Ivy" school was good, and the workload was more than in the real Ivy, but I'd say there're still BIG diferences between the two schools; the real Ivy had a much more diverse and motivated student body that had a lot more people who were super-smart than the "additional Ivy", and the real Ivy had plenty of big-name professors, while the "additional Ivy" didn't. No way would I even consider putting the two schools in the same category.

[Lexy]

As for Duke and Rice, those schools are less than 100 years old so they don't have the substance and foundation to qualify. Emory, Vanderbilt and Wake don't have serious academic reputations.

UNC above places like Duke and Vanderbilt? Give me a break dude.

I respect your opinion, but that is just too funny. Please elaborate as to why you listed who you listed(beyond what has already been said).

[johnnydr87]

US News is going to release Best Colleges 2007 this Friday.

Here's my list of the best colleges in the south, taken from US News.

I'm intentionally leaving out liberal arts colleges, like Washington and Lee, as it is ranked in a completely different category (liberal arts colleges).

5 Duke University (NC)

11 Washington University in St. Louis (south?)

13 Johns Hopkins University (MD) (south??)

18 Vanderbilt University (TN)

20 Emory University (GA)

23 University of Virginia*

27 U. of North Carolina – Chapel Hill*

27 Wake Forest University (NC)

Those numbers are their ranks in the 2006 reports. Supposedly Washington University goes up to tenth in the new ranking, Duke down to 7th, Emory up to 18th.......

If Maryland and Missouri aren't south (which, they probably aren't), then these next two schools would get the claim:

31 College of William and Mary (VA)*

37 Georgia Institute of Technology*

Next best college in the south, barely missing the cut, is Tulane.

[shrek05]

In the scheme of things, where you went to college has little significance in the scheme of things. More important is what you learned and how you have applied to better yourself. A diploma from a prestige school is something you will file away and never talk about again once you get out into industry. (unless those were your greatest days, which is not good)

I know this was posted a long time ago, but thats not correct. It is a popular assumption that undergrad does not matter and to an extent it is true, you can be successful from whatever school you attend. But attending a good college helps a lot. When it comes down to alumni networking, graduate school acceptances and placements, internship opportunities, recruiting, average salaries, general education and environment of academia, the Ivy League is hard to beat (with some exceptions like Stanford, MIT, Cal Tech, etc.)

US News is going to release Best Colleges 2007 this Friday.

Yep, from the leaked rankings I saw, it goes the follows:

1) Princeton University

2) Harvard University

3) Yale University

4) Stanford University

4) California Institute of Technology

4) Massachusetts Institute of Technology

7) University of Pennsylvania

8) **Duke University

9) Columbia University

9) Dartmouth College

9) University of Chicago

12) Cornell University

12) Washington Univserity in St. Louis

14) Northwestern University

15) Brown University

16) **Johns Hopkins University

17) **Rice

18) **Emory

18) **Vanderbilt

20) Notre Dame

Compared in top 20, Ivies in bold, Southern Universities with **.

If you were to compile a list it would probably include: Duke, Johns Hopkins, Georgetown, Vanderbilt, Emory, Wake Forest...and then I guess Tulane, but its kind of a stretch. I would be more inlcined to add UVa and UNCCH than stick with just privates.

[mallguy]

FYI, here is a good description of the Ivy League:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivy_League

Some general traits of Ivy League schools, both from that article and from my own recollections of having been a student at one of them:

1. Located in the northeastern US

2. Old

3. Private (with the general exception of some parts of Cornell)

4. Relatively large undergraduate student body, plus graduate schools

5. Own athletic league (which is not particularly high-quality, except for a few sports)

6. Generally politically very, very liberal, with a generally secular/disproportionately non-Christian student body

7. High US News ranking (in this year's upcoming survey, all in the top 15)

8. Large endowments

With these traits in mind, this discussion becomes pretty moot. UNC, Vanderbilt, Davidson, etc. may be excellent schools, but they don't meet the all of the traits above (even excluding #5). This discussion should really be, "what Southern schools are as prestigious as Ivy League schools?" or the like.

[johnnydr87]

I know this was posted a long time ago, but thats not correct. It is a popular assumption that undergrad does not matter and to an extent it is true, you can be successful from whatever school you attend. But attending a good college helps a lot. When it comes down to alumni networking, graduate school acceptances and placements, internship opportunities, recruiting, average salaries, general education and environment of academia, the Ivy League is hard to beat (with some exceptions like Stanford, MIT, Cal Tech, etc.)

Yep, from the leaked rankings I saw, it goes the follows:

1) Princeton University

2) Harvard University

3) Yale University

4) Stanford University

4) California Institute of Technology

4) Massachusetts Institute of Technology

7) University of Pennsylvania

8) **Duke University

9) Columbia University

9) Dartmouth College

9) University of Chicago

12) Cornell University

12) Washington Univserity in St. Louis

14) Northwestern University

15) Brown University

16) **Johns Hopkins University

17) **Rice

18) **Emory

18) **Vanderbilt

20) Notre Dame

Compared in top 20, Ivies in bold, Southern Universities with **.

If you were to compile a list it would probably include: Duke, Johns Hopkins, Georgetown, Vanderbilt, Emory, Wake Forest...and then I guess Tulane, but its kind of a stretch. I would be more inlcined to add UVa and UNCCH than stick with just privates.

I saw those "leaked" rankings too. Collegeconfidential.com?

Anyways...both are believable. U. of Chicago going up 6 spots sounds a little crazy..but whatever.

edit: your rankings are correct, I'm pretty sure.

[Aporkalypse]

Here are the true Southern Ivies:

1) UNC

2) UVa

3) William & Mary

4) Georgetown

and the "Little Southern Ivies":

1) Davidson

2) Washington & Lee

As for Duke and Rice, those schools are less than 100 years old so they don't have the substance and foundation to qualify. Emory, Vanderbilt and Wake don't have serious academic reputations.

That's so completely a poor analysis.

Emory doesn't have a serious academic reputation? Surely you just. Belittling Duke becasue of the age of the school is the most laughable.

[Pillsbury]

Here are the true Southern Ivies:

1) UNC

2) UVa

3) William & Mary

4) Georgetown

and the "Little Southern Ivies":

1) Davidson

2) Washington & Lee

As for Duke and Rice, those schools are less than 100 years old so they don't have the substance and foundation to qualify. Emory, Vanderbilt and Wake don't have serious academic reputations.

Yeah, Emory, Wake Forest, & Vanderbilt are such slacker schools!!! And Duke lacks substance because it's not old enough. That's just funny.

[Aporkalypse]

Yeah, Emory, Wake Forest, & Vanderbilt are such slacker schools!!! And Duke lacks substance because it's not old enough. That's just funny.

I guess he's never heard of Tulane. I hear it's a pretty good school.