[Martinman]

^^^And I think you partially answered Lady Celeste's question about Mall of Ga recruiting Belk. There simply aren't that many independent department stores options left out there to fill the space.

This post has been edited by Martinman: 14 December 2005 - 04:26 PM

[StevenRocks]

Lady Celeste, on Dec 14 2005, 03:20 PM, said:

Steven perhaps you can show some pictures of nicer Belks in the greater North Carolina area.

Certainly!

Hudson Belk, Crabtree Valley Mall, Raleigh, North Carolina:
http://livemalls.blo...alley-mall.html

Hudson Belk, The Streets at Southpoint, Durham, North Carolina:
http://livemalls.blo...southpoint.html

Belk, Hanes Mall, Winston Salem, North Carolina:
http://livemalls.blo...alem-north.html

Belk, Four Seasons Town Centre, Greensboro, North Carolina:
http://livemalls.blo...own-centre.html

Belk, Northlake Mall, Charlotte, North Carolina:
http://livemalls.blo...otte-north.html

[Andrea]

I shouldn't say this, and I absolutely mean no offense to anyone, but I hate malls so bad.

[ironchapman]

Why is it that people hate malls SO much in a city or just anywhere, for that matter? I've never really had a problem with them and I am thankful we have such presitioug ones as Lenox and Phipps. Arbor Place Mall has done nothing but good in bringing business to my town.

That said, mall in every little nook and cranny of the state is overkill, IMO.

Or perhaps is it the crazy spurt of development that is often unplanned that peple hate so much? (In that case, Arbor Place has really caused my town to fall victim to it on a greater scale than before.)

[Andrea]

ironchapman, on Dec 14 2005, 09:38 PM, said:

Why is it that people hate malls SO much in a city or just anywhere, for that matter?

IC, I don't mean to sound like a snob or anything like that. When Lenox Square first opened I was totally in awe, as I had never seen anything like it.

What I don't like about malls is basically this:

(1) They are all about cars -- they are usually inward focused and turn their backs on pedestrians. You basically have to drive there and park.

(2) They are typically surrounded by acres of asphalt parking lots, or in the case of some of the more mature malls, concrete parking decks. I think this is forbidding to foot traffic and not so good for the environment.

(3) They usually destroy streetscapes and leave you looking at nothing but parking lots.

(4) To me, they tend to be bland, generic and overwhelming -- I prefer smaller, eclectic, individualized shops run by local merchants, but I know that's just a matter of individual taste.

(5) I think they're harder to get into and out of than local shops and that they complicate traffic patterns.

If Lenox and Phipps, for instance, were carved up into about 15 city blocks of street-facing shops with sidewalks, I'd like them a lot more. In fact, now that I think about it, the original Lenox Square was more like that -- it was not enclosed, and it felt a lot more like you were walking down main street.

[Student]

The whole cars thing doesn't make sense to me. I don't think anyone who pays so many thousands of dollars for a vehile will let is dust in their driveways. I've noticed that many people believe that Public transportation is for broke people who cant afford cars. And future generations can't wait to get their liscence, so they can drive all day.

[ironchapman]

Andrea, on Dec 14 2005, 10:28 PM, said:

IC, I don't mean to sound like a snob or anything like that. When Lenox Square first opened I was totally in awe, as I had never seen anything like it.

What I don't like about malls is basically this:

(1) They are all about cars -- they are usually inward focused and turn their backs on pedestrians. You basically have to drive there and park.

(2) They are typically surrounded by acres of asphalt parking lots, or in the case of some of the more mature malls, concrete parking decks. I think this is forbidding to foot traffic and not so good for the environment.

(3) They usually destroy streetscapes and leave you looking at nothing but parking lots.

(4) To me, they tend to be bland, generic and overwhelming -- I prefer smaller, eclectic, individualized shops run by local merchants, but I know that's just a matter of individual taste.

(5) I think they're harder to get into and out of than local shops and that they complicate traffic patterns.

If Lenox and Phipps, for instance, were carved up into about 15 city blocks of street-facing shops with sidewalks, I'd like them a lot more. In fact, now that I think about it, the original Lenox Square was more like that -- it was not enclosed, and it felt a lot more like you were walking down main street.

I can see most of your points. I just must have grown used to all of this since I have lived in suburbia all of my life.

As stupid as this may seem to some people, malls don't seem like much more than enclosed retail districts like those you find on the city streets.

I guess I'm not 100% urbanist...so sue me.

[Andrea]

ironchapman, on Dec 15 2005, 12:19 AM, said:

I can see most of your points. I just must have grown used to all of this since I have lived in suburbia all of my life.

As stupid as this may seem to some people, malls don't seem like much more than enclosed retail districts like those you find on the city streets.

I guess I'm not 100% urbanist...so sue me.

LOL! My main objection is really that most malls are just extremely unfriendly to pedestrians -- they're typically set way back in the middle of a gargantuan parking lot, and often present a closed facade to the street.

I think some of those issues could be fairly easily addressed. I will also say that I've seen pretty cool urban malls -- Water Tower Place in Chicago and The Shops at Georgetown Park come to mind. You might remember me mentioning the old Peachtree Arcade in downtown Atlanta. That was very cool, too.

[StevenRocks]

I like malls.

[DigitalSky]

memphian, on Dec 14 2005, 03:34 PM, said:

North Carolinians love their Belk the way old Georgians and Tennesseans loved their Rich's and Castner Knott/Proffitt's. Lets hope they create some magic instead of boredom in their new stores. it's obvious they have an uphill battle in front of them.

That's very true and I think Belk won't let people down at MOGA

[Lady Celeste]

Here is the sad thing about it.....

The Mall of Georgia will now have a Belk, Nordstrom, Macy's, JCPenny and Dillards. Okay, look at the department store mixture. The Mall of Georgia has so much potential. The income in the immediate area is extremely high and in the greater area is probably in the top 5 for Atlanta malls.....yet they recruit Belk. Where is Neimans? It's not like Neimans was not scouting for another location because they were going to be placed in the new mall that was planned for GA400 at McFarland. I know Bloomingdales is probably trying to get used to the two new stores that opened two years ago so they may not want to expand.

I would make the trip to the Mall of Georgia BECAUSE they had the lone Lord & Taylor in Atlanta. Now with them having a Belk, what would be the inducement for me to go there when I can go to North Point Mall or Perimeter Mall? To me, Atlanta has over 15 true enclosed malls. Atlanta is overwhelmingly style conscience too.....Belk just does not have the cachet that the leaving Lord & Taylor has....I feel that Simon should have brought a slightly higher brand to the Mall of Georgia. I suppose all the Gainesville people will be pleased with the new Belk.....and maybe some of the Gwinettians...but I can't see someone revving up their Jaguar and leaving the safety of Sugarloaf Country Club to shop at Belk. Nordstrom, Macys and Dillards are going to be the stores of choice. Belk will be thought of as a JCPenny or Sears. You know, you go there when your children need some undies.

I guess I will visit at least once though......maybe if Belk exceeds my expectations, I can put a good word in to all my other friends who will probably say "What is a Belk?"

[StevenRocks]

Lady Celeste, I'm not sure that the Belk Mall of Georgia will be impressive to you or not, but I know that they're capable of a lot more than most of their current metro Atlanta stores show. If you'll give it a chance when it opens, I am pretty sure you'll like it and might even be impressed.

At SouthPark and several of Belk's best stores, Belk carries brands like St. John, Eileen Fisher, Garfield & Marks, Sigrid Olsen, Salvatore Ferragamo, Dr. N.V. Perricone, MAC, Laura Mercier, Kiehl's, Ghurka, Kate Spade, Herend, Christoffe, Lacoste, Jack Victor, Burberry, Cole-Haan, Bruno Magli, and Godiva. Oh, and the kids underwear too.

I don't know if they'll carry all those brands at Mall of Georgia, but tthey have the resources to.

This post has been edited by StevenRocks: 15 December 2005 - 05:14 PM

[Lady Celeste]

StevenRocks, on Dec 15 2005, 06:12 PM, said:

Lady Celeste, I'm not sure that the Belk Mall of Georgia will be impressive to you or not, but I know that they're capable of a lot more than most of their current metro Atlanta stores show. If you'll give it a chance when it opens, I am pretty sure you'll like it and might even be impressed.

At SouthPark and several of Belk's best stores, Belk carries brands like St. John, Eileen Fisher, Garfield & Marks, Sigrid Olsen, Salvatore Ferragamo, Dr. N.V. Perricone, MAC, Laura Mercier, Kiehl's, Ghurka, Kate Spade, Herend, Christoffe, Lacoste, Jack Victor, Burberry, Cole-Haan, Bruno Magli, and Godiva. Oh, and the kids underwear too.

I don't know if they'll carry all those brands at Mall of Georgia, but tthey have the resources to.

Steven, because I trust your judgement, I will give it a chance. I'm glad you listed St. John first....although Nordstom....nope, I will be positive.....thanks for sharing your information on Belk with me. Thanks a million for the pictures also. You are a lifesaver.

[StevenRocks]

Lady Celeste, on Dec 15 2005, 10:22 PM, said:

Steven, because I trust your judgement, I will give it a chance. I'm glad you listed St. John first....although Nordstom....nope, I will be positive.....thanks for sharing your information on Belk with me. Thanks a million for the pictures also. You are a lifesaver.

You're welcome. Thanks for giving me an oppurtunity to share.

[teshadoh]

I don't see anyone driving up to Mall of Georgia from Atlanta like some used to, but for those that are served by the mall, they shouldn't be dissapointed by Belks. Especially if all they are used to the smaller stores. In the Charlotte area, Belks has much more prominance, even with other national department stores - so we always treated Belks as being the 'good store'.

But then again - that was when the only department stores in any malls I went to in SC were Belks, Iveys, Sears or JC Pennys, besides the Richs in Greenville & Columbia.

[StevenRocks]

teshadoh, on Dec 16 2005, 09:06 AM, said:

In the Charlotte area, Belks has much more prominance, even with other national department stores - so we always treated Belks as being the 'good store'.

But then again - that was when the only department stores in any malls I went to in SC were Belks, Iveys, Sears or JC Pennys, besides the Richs in Greenville & Columbia.

On a level playing field, Belk holds its own pretty well. A lot of times, they're the biggest store in town and they have sway with a lot of vendors that normally go to the national players first.

[DigitalSky]

I really do think Belk's reasoning for entering this mall is to feel the void of a "hometown-feel meets big city" dept store that left Rich's when Macy's came in

[StevenRocks]

cantnot, on Dec 17 2005, 04:11 AM, said:

I really do think Belk's reasoning for entering this mall is to feel the void of a "hometown-feel meets big city" dept store that left Rich's when Macy's came in

I think it has more to do with Belk's warm relationship with Simon Property Group, owners of MoG, but your theory makes sense too.

[DigitalSky]

I completely overlooked that!

This post has been edited by cantnot: 17 December 2005 - 06:27 PM

[Andrea]

I clearly remember the Belk's store in Decatur from back in the 1960's because my mom used to take me there for school clothes. But I see they've had a broader Atlanta presence as well. Here's their Buckhead store in 1954 (at the corner of East Paces Ferry and Bolling Way).

This post has been edited by Andrea: 21 December 2005 - 02:08 PM