Should South Florida become its own state?

[larrysofla]

People have talked about the idea of South Florida separating from the rest of the state for years. The reasons are varied but here are a few, the region gets screwed in school funding from the legislature in North Florida, our votes are drown out by the rest of the state's largely conservative votes, we share such little in common with the "hillbillies to the north," ect, ect.

I thought that this poll would be an interesting topic of discussion, and the questions are designed to let us all learn a little bit about our fellow citizens and their views.

Just a couple of quick facts:

If South Florida were its own state it would have a population of around 6,000,000.

The three counties that comprise the South Florida metro account for about 1/3 of the entire state's population.

There is a South Carolina and a North Carolina, why not South Florida and North Florida? Discuss!

[bsutter2]

It would be alot worse (for south florida).

The rest of the state would end up getting quite alot more back from what they pay in taxes.

[Urban_Legend]

I think that while it sounds like an interesting idea, it could have serious consequences. I like things the way they are, though I do agree that south Florida is quite a different region.

[dave8721]

The best way would be not just those 3 counties but Monroe (the Keys) and Martin and St.Lucie counties as well and the SW Coast too. Draw a line from the Lee County northern border west to Palm Beach County then north to St.Lucie County (include the Everglades). That would give a state of 7-8 million or so in a pretty small area and would allow a state run transit system that would actually be functional (like how the Boston area subway is run by the Massachuesetts Transit Agency). Taxes would probably be a little higher but at least they would all stay local. A downside would be that South Florida residents would not longer get "in-state" tuition at UF or FSU, or Florida resident discounts at Disney.

Edited January 31, 2006 by dave8721

[dave8721]

It would be alot worse (for south florida).

The rest of the state would end up getting quite alot more back from what they pay in taxes.

How do you figure considering all 3 counties are "donor counties" which pay more to the state in taxes than they get back?

[tombarnes]

What would this state be called? South Florida? The Republic of Florida? Monrovia? Margaritaville? As unlikely as the idea seems, it does make an interesting point for discussion. I don't think the counties of the southwestern part of the state would welcome the idea.

[kkpugh726]

Who came up with this idea,all the people that are up North are not hillbillies.How would you like if people from the North said SF was nothing but Cubans and illegal immigrants and dope dealers in South Florida. Maybe we should re-name South Florida North Cuba instead,now thats an Idea!

[larrysofla]

Who came up with this idea,all the people that are up North are not hillbillies.How would you like if people from the North said SF was nothing but Cubans and illegal immigrants and dope dealers in South Florida. Maybe we should re-name South Florida North Cuba instead,now thats an Idea!

Well it's funny that you would say those things, because that IS what many people from North Florida say about the South Florida area. They see our area as a cesspool of illegals and shady people, and many here feel like they have entered a different planet when they cross north of the Palm Beach county line. You show an obvious distaste for the people of South Florida in your post, I know many in Northern Florida share those negative feelings, so maybe we should just seperate... you know, kind of like a divorce. You get to keep Disney Word, and the Yee Haw Junction, and we can have South Beach, the Fort Lauderdale Swap Shop, and everything in the state of cultural relevance. So how about it? Deal?

[dave8721]

I dont view it as anything personal against the people up north its just that people generally don't like being governed by an institution that is like 500 MILES AWAY!! (Can anyone think of any other major city that is farther away from its State capital? Only San Diego comes to mind). Maybe if the capital was moved to Orlando or something South Floridians might feel a little more connected to the state they inhabit.

[Urban_Legend]

I've lived on both sides of the so-called "border." Jacksonville and West Palm Beach. I don't dislike either of those places, they both have their own redeeming qualities. I don't care what northerners think about those in the south and vice versa.

Honestly, some of the back-and-forth in this thread makes it seem like civil war is imminent lol.

And I don't think our capital should be moved to Orlando. Washington D.C. isn't exactly central to our country, is it? And Tallahassee has alot of great history, whereas Orlando doesn't have much to talk about "pre-Mouse." No offense Orlando, I love your city.

[cameronm]

I dont view it as anything personal against the people up north its just that people generally don't like being governed by an institution that is like 500 MILES AWAY!! (Can anyone think of any other major city that is farther away from its State capital? Only San Diego comes to mind). Maybe if the capital was moved to Orlando or something South Floridians might feel a little more connected to the state they inhabit.

I AGRREE!

[prahaboheme]

I dont view it as anything personal against the people up north its just that people generally don't like being governed by an institution that is like 500 MILES AWAY!! (Can anyone think of any other major city that is farther away from its State capital? Only San Diego comes to mind). Maybe if the capital was moved to Orlando or something South Floridians might feel a little more connected to the state they inhabit.

The truth is, I can't think of any major city in Florida that feels a special kinship to Tallahassee, distance or otherwise.

Well it's funny that you would say those things, because that IS what many people from North Florida say about the South Florida area. They see our area as a cesspool of illegals and shady people, and many here feel like they have entered a different planet when they cross north of the Palm Beach county line. You show an obvious distaste for the people of South Florida in your post, I know many in Northern Florida share those negative feelings, so maybe we should just seperate... you know, kind of like a divorce. You get to keep Disney Word, and the Yee Haw Junction, and we can have South Beach, the Fort Lauderdale Swap Shop, and everything in the state of cultural relevance. So how about it? Deal?

I see this getting ugly.

[prahaboheme]

I've lived on both sides of the so-called "border." Jacksonville and West Palm Beach. I don't dislike either of those places, they both have their own redeeming qualities. I don't care what northerners think about those in the south and vice versa.

Honestly, some of the back-and-forth in this thread makes it seem like civil war is imminent lol.

And I don't think our capital should be moved to Orlando. Washington D.C. isn't exactly central to our country, is it? And Tallahassee has alot of great history, whereas Orlando doesn't have much to talk about "pre-Mouse." No offense Orlando, I love your city.

Washington DC was pretty much the center of the country when built. Further, "pre-mouse" Orlando was regarded as the center of Florida's citrus industry.

[kkpugh726]

I have no problem with SF I actually,I have alot of friends there and I go to the Nasdaq 100 every year and I like Miami.My problem is that people from the South seem to think they or there city is better than the cities up North which is no true. People live where they live becuase they enjoy living there,those who can move do so.Our capital city is where it is and it belongs there.The fact that you would say it should moved to Orlando just to suite your needs is just plan selfish and I am sorry stupid.If every city in Fl was like SF what a boring state this would be and SF might not be so popluar.Anyway I still plan to take my trip to SF for the Nasdaq despite your comments I review as harsh.There is enough division in this world and country we dont need any more.--PS you should keep your negative comments about North Florida to yourself,when I lived in Atlanta and people said negative comments about Miami I defended Miami because thats what Floridians are suppose to do.

[tombarnes]

I don't think anyone has anything to fear....Florida as we know it isn't going to be rent asunder any time soon. There's no denying that the cultures of North and South Florida are strikingly different. What will happen, though, as more of North Florida sees the sort of development which has occurred in South Florida? The attendant population surge from other places will ensure that the deep rooted culture of the northern half of the state may well be diminished by the influx of outsiders. I don't see this as a good thing, just an inevitable one.

Edited February 4, 2006 by tombarnes

[up+down=midtown]

Im sorry but i had never seen so many rednecks and hillbilles until i traveled to northern florida,so that arguement has some validility.

and yes south florida does get screwed over all the time because the northern cities usually are regarded to as more important,

im my opinion the state should just move the capital, to miami lol.

[Urban_Legend]

Washington DC was pretty much the center of the country when built.

Tallahassee was the center of the state when it was built; there was nothing but swamps down south.

Im sorry but i had never seen so many rednecks and hillbilles until i traveled to northern florida,so that arguement has some validility.

^There's rednecks and hillbillies everywhere. It just depends on where you look. Jacksonville has plenty of cosmopolitan people and West Palm Beach has plenty of rednecks. Just go to the South Florida Fair for proof lol.

[poonther]

This thread is silly and divisive!

Of course Florida should remain ONE STATE, no if and or buts about it. I've lived in all 3 regions of FL: Northern (Tally and PC) Central (Altamonte Springs) South (Boca and Lauderdale) and I've visited all 67 counties at least once. I love ALL of Florida, rural/urban, southern/yankee. It's what makes us so great. We aren't the only state like this. California is very different culturally North to South and from the coast to the central valleys and deserts to the high mountains. The same can be said for Texas from El Paso to Amarillo to Texarkana to Brownsville. And again the same could be said for NY from NYC to Buffalo to Watertown to Plattsburgh. It seems some of the best states are very different doesn't it.

Yeah our Capitol is a little out of place geographically, but in this day in age w/all our technology, what does that really matter? It's the same problem in California. Tally was chosen b/c back in the day the Jax/St. Augustine area and the Pensacola area were the two major population centers. Legend goes that one man rode a horse from St.Augustine and another from Pensacola and where they met was Tally. There was no town here just an abandoned Indian village. That is how it became the Capitol. If you are gonna live here, know our history. Often times capitals aren't in the State's largest cities for good reasons. Albany is NY's Sacramento is CA's Austin (which just became a big city) is TX's. This keeps one region from getting too much political power....say like Atlanta is for GA or Boston is for Mass.

Many of my friends and neighbors up here in Tally are from South Florida just like me and they don't hate South FL at all. For those who said we are hillbillies up here...again know your state history. Hillbillies don't live in Florida, only rednecks, crackers and bubbas. Yeah there are many of them up here, but heck I knew many of them back in Palm Beach and Broward Counties. In your poll above.. this North Floridian voted that I too am disappointed w/State Government and I vote as a liberal and Leon County (Tally) was a blue county in both past elections. Bush lost both times here by a much wider margin than in Dade.

Dade County has some of the most conservative people in our legislature...can you say Villalobos. Many of them are Cuban (nothing against Cubans) but they always vote very conservatively on social issues like keeping the gay adoption ban etc etc....by the way Dade, that adoption ban came from your county as did our conservative Governor Bush! Now Broward and Palm Beach politically are far more liberal than Dade.

So stop your whinning. Our cultural differences are nothing unique. Many states are like us...just travel out west and you'll see. We are all one big very different family and we should remain that way. Florida is a great place. Love her for her diversity!

[kkpugh726]

Good statement Poonther,and enough said.

[larrysofla]

The state of Florida is going to hold public hearings on Broward County's new slot machines law... the only problem? They are holding it in Tallahassee, where virtually none of the input will come from the actual voters who approved the amendment. Here's a quote from one of our elected officials regarding the decision to hold the hearings hundreds of miles from Broward, "'That's absurd,' said Rep. Ron Greenstein, D-Coconut Creek. 'The hearings should be in Broward. It just shows their arrogance.'" And he is absolutely right. First of all it is arrogant of them to be trying to overturn our constitutional amendment, just because they don't "like it," and secondly it is just insulting that they would hold hearings on an important issue for our area and not include us, the people of Broward, in the discussions.

For the entire article from the Sun Sentinel go to http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/bro...la-news-broward

Just another example of how South Florida gets treated in this increasingly conservative state.

Also, as for those comments about Miami-Dade being so conservative: While it is true that Dade is the most conservative county in the South Florida region, it is still a majority Democratic county. Miami-Dade has 457,215 Democrats, and 371,154 Republicans. Miami-Dade county went for John Kerry in '04, although not by the huge margins that Broward went. Broward is our most liberal county: In Broward County Democrats number 534,444 and Republicans number 284,844 "Other political party affiliation" numbers 243,705 so as you can see in Broward the Republican party has little more membership than a third party.

[FLAplaya]

okay first and foremost...DONT EVER LINK ME AS BEING A HILLBILLY, REDNECK etc. This part of the state is in fact VERY DIVERSE, we too have a large number of ethnic cultures here other than the typical Western European and Central American descents.

Also, north Floridians talking crap about our southern counterparts...ITS REALLY NON EXISTANT with the general population...most of us love SF for the fact that it is different.

I was born in Pensacola and raised in Ft. Walton Beach yet me and my family, as well as, several of my friends are very Democratic and liberal in their thinking and are not happy with how this state is being run. The 2nd and 3rd congressional districts in Northern Florida are all Democratic and I can't remember the last time a Republican has been in control of them.

As for the slot machine hearings...last i checked it was a STATE AMENDMENT - which means it has to be heard in the STATE CAPITOL, also IT IS A PUBLIC HEARING so if your so worried about it then drive your happy butt up here and be apart of the hearing.

Ulitmately, Jeb is the Governor, so if anything was to be vetoed or taken off anything will have to run through him and his cabinets office, as well as, the elected officials who we put in. Don't blame what goes on in Tallahassee solely on northern Florida.....republican congressmen hail from all over south florida too..

[poonther]

larrysofla I read that article about the slot machine public hearing being held here in Tally and I too thought that was absurd. I understand what FLAplaya is saying about this being a state amendment and therefore it should be handled in Tally, but common sense should tell our government officials that at least one public hearing should be held in Broward. However, that's not North or Central Florida doing that to Broward, that is the Republican party in Florida that is making it difficult for slot machines to happen in Broward. Leading that opposition is YOUR South Florida conservative governor JEB!

Like I said before, Broward is Florida's most liberal county. Part of that is due to the high numbers of Gay and Jewish voters in the county. Those two groups almost always vote for the Democrat Party. Palm Beach county while still heavily Democrat, especially in the heavily Jewish South County area (Boca/Delray) I have read an aritcle (having trouble finding it now) that the Republican party in PBC is growing by leaps and bounds in the North County (Jupiter/Palm Beach Gardens.) This just mirrors what is happening all over the country. Unfortunately or fortunately, however you look it at, the nation has a whole is growing more conservative, not just Florida.

As for your Dade democratic numbers, you are right, but when it came time to vote in the '04 election, those numbers did not pan out and that is partly, now just partly, why FL went red and not blue. The Dade democrats either did not get out and vote or they swapped parties when voting. Alachua and Leon counties in the far northern part of the state are heavily democrat counties and have always voted that way.

Again, while all of this can be troubling and interesting at the same time, it's in no way shape or form a reason for the state to split up. And again I'll say it's nothing unique to our state at all. California, a state I know well, has the same problems. Just go to SF and stand on the street corner and say "I love LA" and watch what happens to you. Now there's an ugly rivalry.

[Florida]

I saw this poll and I voted in it. I feel the southern Florida counties named should remain a part of our state, furthermore, I do have a problem with our state government's performance and would like to see improvements. And yes I'm a liberal.

My family has lived in Tallahassee since I was young and we tried our time in South Florida (Boca). I don't publicly express any displeasure with any part of our state. There are things I like and dislike everywhere. That said, I find it mighty disturbing that many people would beef with the entire state because of the performance of a single class of legislators, who hail in large numbers from the portion of the state considering a break away.

Since Governor Chiles, Florida has been under the republican finger Big-Time. John Ellis(JEB) came to Tallahassee from South Florida and nearly tore this city to shreds... slashing jobs in our major industry by the thousands in the face of a growing population to serve.

I hear everyyear that Florida just doesn't have enough money to give the teachers the pay they deserve, or provide seniors with medicine. I hear it said all the time that roads in North Florida will have to wait on funding while those in South Florida regularly recieve funding for infrastructre improvements, yet nearly every year since Jeb has been Governor, there have been all sorts of Sales Tax Holidays for school clothing, and hurricane supplies, and this year they're proposing to give all property tax payers $100 back, or slash state sales taxes on all goods under $5,000 sold for a week. I love the sales tax holidays personally, but I percieve some mixed priorities.

Back to Tallahassee not being connected to the state... Poonther painted a very accurate story of why Tallahassee was chosen as the State Capitol. And since that time Tallahassee has proudly served the people of Florida thru good times and bad. If you all in South Florida think bad government really makes life down there rough, just imagine how we feel as the site of initial impact! People come to our city for a few months out of the year from all over the state to congest our roads, hotels, stores, and restaurants ( I love the economic impact, BTW! ) yet they remain blind to our needs as a Florida city.

As a Tallahasseean I don't like the feeling that people throughout the state don't like us, or our city, when we take so much pride in working for you all. I wish more would realize and appreciate the hard work many of the people here do for our dear Florida... the state we all love.

[bsutter2]

How do you figure considering all 3 counties are "donor counties" which pay more to the state in taxes than they get back?

I think you have that backwards.

[KendallKid]

Well it's funny that you would say those things, because that IS what many people from North Florida say about the South Florida area. They see our area as a cesspool of illegals and shady people, and many here feel like they have entered a different planet when they cross north of the Palm Beach county line. You show an obvious distaste for the people of South Florida in your post, I know many in Northern Florida share those negative feelings, so maybe we should just seperate... you know, kind of like a divorce. You get to keep Disney Word, and the Yee Haw Junction, and we can have South Beach, the Fort Lauderdale Swap Shop, and everything in the state of cultural relevance. So how about it? Deal?

I felt that way when i moved north of palm beach