[livinDT]

I did hear some good news.........that a coffee shop on the far right corner of the property was going in (maybe dog friendly). However, based on what the developer said in the N&O one year ago, this also could be misleading.

This post has been edited by livinDT: 22 June 2007 - 06:30 PM

[ChiefJoJo]

Slightly off topic, but I was just in this area yesterday evening and there is a small rental community of tiny (and I mean tiny) homes NW of Brookside/Glascock between there and WF Rd. I'm kind of amazed with the growing land values that it hasn't succumbed to a wrecking ball and redevelopment as townhomes or big single family McMansions. Anyone familiar with that little area?

[Jones133]

ChiefJoJo, on Jun 23 2007, 11:07 AM, said:

Slightly off topic, but I was just in this area yesterday evening and there is a small rental community of tiny (and I mean tiny) homes NW of Brookside/Glascock between there and WF Rd. I'm kind of amazed with the growing land values that it hasn't succumbed to a wrecking ball and redevelopment as townhomes or big single family McMansions. Anyone familiar with that little area?

I forget the street name but do you mean the area where the dirt road is? I know of some tiny apartments near the Boundary/Brookside name change, but they are southwest of Brookside/Glascock (I think)

[Bartman]

Maybe you mean the ones on Virginia Ave behind the Salvation army? 30-40 small apartment homes built in 1971 and owned by Kip-Dell.
See this map link and click "Hybrid"...

[livinDT]

I think those are called Brookview apartments.

[Bartman]

livinDT, on Jun 24 2007, 02:37 PM, said:

I think those are called Brookview apartments.

yep... you're right... here's the name and a pic... Brookview Apts.

[okdlnbr]

I live on Sasser St. and have seen the traffic from Halifax Court to all these stores for booze. I also have seen the prostitutes and murders that have happened in the rental apts. on Sasser and Virginia St. Now that Halifax Court is gone, so has the traffic to and from the alcohol supply. People are looking to find any excuse for "not in my backyard" but what they really are afraid of is change. Even if it becomes a convenience store and sells cheap booze, remember you are the customer. Go in and request pricier beer and wine, if people are loitering, call the cops and get them run off. People will quickly learn to avoid the place to loiter and the store owner will buy higher end items and stop selling crap.

As to the parking lot in front, yes it could be in the back, but it is a residential space and they need to park their cars somewhere. Also, we are in the south, an agricultural state. We have always spread out, not that this is a smart move, but so be it. Everyone who references to the north doesn't take into account that it's cold up there. People don't want to walk far to work, the grocery store, etc. They were an industrial state, closer is better. That said, the space is walkable. We walk our dog by there on the way to the dog park to see what's happening. There are sidewalks that flow from the street to the spaces without crossing any driveway.

As to the EIFS, it's not a bad product, it was poor installation practices. Just like PEX had problems with bad fittings. PEX is not bad, just how they originally choose to connect it together. I don't understand construction fully, and I do find the corner brick work weird and the windows in the round part of the convience store odd, but in general the place looks okay for the neighborhood. It's easy to stand back and slam how slow it's going, but when it opens I bet you will visit the spaces, probably walk there and not care about EIFS and such.

Lastly, to jnzllwgr, do you walk EVERYwhere you go???? Do you walk to work, the grocery store, doctors, movies, friends, clubs, dates, etc.? I don't walk everywhere, I drive to work, I drive to the grocery store, etc. and I also walk. You want gas to go up $1 so people learn to walk......they won't. They will only beotch, and we will only make a decision to buy gas or to
eat, drink or whatever. Even if gas does increase by a $1, what will that change. Are the stores going to move into downtown? Are you
going to move closer to work and walk? I doubt it! The south is not a close knit community, like NY or Boston. Yes we do need to change, need to not spread out but spread up. I remember when Raleigh to RDU had a defining break, and the same to Durham. Now it's the same.

[ncwebguy]

Halifax Court has been gone for years. The old shopping center at Brookside and Glascock burned down before that. Even when Halifax Court had residents, there were conveience stores on North Blount, Person Street Market, and the Mordecai Texaco. Not all patrons to that store were from Halifax.

Residents *and* shoppers could have parked behind the building, like the center on Whitaker Mill Road. As it is now, there is a "moat" of parking around the whole building instead of a "river" along the back. They could have had designated spaces (or garages) for the apartment/condo residents, and surface (and on-street) parking for customers and guests of the residents.

It has almost a century since any of the land in that area was used for agricultural purposes. Even in the state's agrarian past, there have been clusters of stores in small towns that grew up at trade route crossroads and train stops. They didn't have horse posts in the front *and* back of the general store/bar/inn, and it doesn't make sense now.

The building could have opened a year ago if the developer had financing and/or a clue. Now it sits like an eyesore the neighborhood doesn't deserve. Seaboard Station was a rehab project, not new construction, and took less time to finish. The fact that the developer told the N&O it would open last year is another reason no one has any hope for the project. It looks nothing like anything else nearby, and the parking only further makes it feel like a fish out of water.

I moved downtown to be within walking distance to work. I have since worked several other jobs that I can't walk to, but I can take a bus if I need to. This website is *Urban Planet*, where some people who want things to be walkable gather. Walkability is possible with the proper planning, and impossible when developers worry more about where cars will park over and above everything else.

[Jones133]

spark706, on Jun 28 2007, 12:29 PM, said:

As to the parking lot in front, yes it could be in the back, but it is a residential space and they need to park their cars somewhere. Also, we are in the south, an agricultural state. We have always spread out, not that this is a smart move, but so be it. Everyone who references to the north doesn't take into account that it's cold up there. People don't want to walk far to work, the grocery store, etc. They were an industrial state, closer is better. That said, the space is walkable. We walk our dog by there on the way to the dog park to see what's happening. There are sidewalks that flow from the street to the spaces without crossing any driveway.

Being residential bears no relation to having parking in front, see Cameron Park as an example. Development patterns have spread out only since the invention of the automobile, and has nothing to do with argriculture. I would say people in the South are generally more averse to walking places than northerners. The criticisms are less about it being walkable and more about how it presents itself to the street, but regardless of sidewalks that approach the building, there is a pedestrian/automobile conflict at the driveway...its inherent anytime vehicle access is provided to a site.

[jnzllwgr]

spark706, on Jun 28 2007, 02:29 PM, said:

Lastly, to jnzllwgr, do you walk EVERYwhere you go???? Do you walk to work, the grocery store, doctors, movies, friends, clubs, dates, etc.? I don't walk everywhere, I drive to work, I drive to the grocery store, etc. and I also walk. You want gas to go up $1 so people learn to walk......they won't. They will only beotch, and we will only make a decision to buy gas or to
eat, drink or whatever. Even if gas does increase by a $1, what will that change. Are the stores going to move into downtown? Are you
going to move closer to work and walk? I doubt it! The south is not a close knit community, like NY or Boston. Yes we do need to change, need to not spread out but spread up. I remember when Raleigh to RDU had a defining break, and the same to Durham. Now it's the same.

I live in downtown Raleigh so that I CAN walk to work. I walk 2 miles, one way, each day. Its a great way to see parts of my city that I normally would not pay attention to. I NEVER see anyone else do what I'm doing, which is unfortunate.

Close knit, dense town planning is not a northern phenomenon and I would suspect that many Southerners would argue with you on how close knit their communities were when they grew up. Look at the historic centers of Edenton, Wilmington, Rocky Mount, Little Washington, Asheville, Lenoir, Hickory, etc. etc. People elected to live close together for community interaction, support as well as to be close to goods and services.

Yes, things have changed and we could say "so be it", but that doesn't make it right or a healthy way to live. As I said, I walk 4 miles a day to get to and from work. When Capital City Grocery was open, I was able to pick up food on a regular basis on the way home. Does that mean that I do not get in a car? Of course not, but its a question of the proper balance for me and a choice that I have made to challenge myself to be more responsible with the resources required to sustain my lifestyle.

[jnzllwgr]

spark706, on Jun 28 2007, 02:29 PM, said:

As to the EIFS, it's not a bad product, it was poor installation practices. Just like PEX had problems with bad fittings. PEX is not bad, just how they originally choose to connect it together. I don't understand construction fully, and I do find the corner brick work weird and the windows in the round part of the convience store odd, but in general the place looks okay for the neighborhood. It's easy to stand back and slam how slow it's going, but when it opens I bet you will visit the spaces, probably walk there and not care about EIFS and such.

You're right, EIFS is not a bad product, but it is an INFERIOR one to many others including the brick that you see on the Brookside development. SUPERIOR products include Zinc Panels, Stone, and Precast Concrete Panels. These are superior because they perform better against the elements over a sustained period of time. They will also improve in appearance whereas the synthetic, petroleum-based plastics in EIFS will weather poorly as ultraviolet radiation breaks down the chemical composition of the product. In the end, EIFS's appearace will worsen with age.

We should always demand the best out our enviroment because we have to live with it for years to come! As I stated in my previous post, its always an issue of balance. We make conscious choices in this building economy when we use inferior products. The choice we make is to save money now but to be forced to raze and/or rebuild in 25 to 50 years (those are the standard lifecycles used in construction budgeting in the U.S. today).

I never understand that when we travel to Williamsburg, Charleston, or Savannah, or points further way like Rome, Paris or London we marvel at the beauty of the historic buildings or 'the charm' or the town. And yet we never make the connection they had to be built well enough to last as long as they have.

Will I visit the spaces once its open?: of course. Will I ENJOY the time I spend there?: not as much as I could. And that's because I DO understand construction and DO care about my enviroment and DO understand the possibilities that have been lost because of a lack of care and skill.

[jnzllwgr]

livinDT, on Jun 21 2007, 10:32 PM, said:

The future teenants of the grocery/deli store are holding an open house, for their abc permit request. The meeting as it stands, according to the flyer in my mailbox today, is Tuesday June 26th at 7PM. This is not what I envisioned when the N&O printed an article about this project one year ago. I am not against alcohol by any means and would love to one day be able to walk to a store and grab a beer in this historic neighborhood. But, I do not think this is the right time.

I hope that many of my neighbors agree and will come out in support of the neighborhood on June 26th.

I attened the meeting and thought it was interesting to see the spectrum of opinion. I also noted that the demographic of the neighborhood is distinctly of two major groups: older, retired, long-term residents and younger, professional, 30-somethings (some with young families). The neighborhood is definitely experiencing an upswing/resurgence! I was energized and plan on attending more of my CAC meetings to learn more about my neighbors and the issues of importance, as well.

It was unfortunate to see how seemingly arguementative the future grocery owner was with the neighbors. My hunch is that he's a good person, but he's human and his strength was clearly not in public speaking. He may have hurt his cause more than he helped.

The gentleman who related alcohol consumption and rape seemed a bit extremist and suburban in his outlook. We don't need any fearmongering!

But the hero of the night was the older woman (was her name Vaughn?). She spoke eloquently and specifically to the duties of being a responsible community...one that is responsible for its own health and safety. Its hard in this day and age for folks to come together and maintain a safe neighborhood, but that's what it takes. Bless her for being so well spoken.

[GizmoGetsIt]

I attended a meeting with Steve Fitzpatrick (the contractor and property manager for this sight) and the community on Tuesday, July 24th. At this meeting Steve assured the community that the project was ongoing and running as smoothly as the City, his sub-contractors, and the weather would permit. The the setbacks he had endured were labor challenges and City red tape.

He felt confident the grocery store would be up and running "very soon, a few weeks at most". He just had a few more details to install and a couple more inspections to complete. Then the store owners would be able to move in and get going making a living- something they've been attempting to do for the last year.

Towards the end of the meeting, the representative of the Raleigh Inspections department, who had attended the meeting, asked to step outside with Steve for a moment. After a few minutes he stepped back in with Steve and asked to speak with those present. He had offered Steve an opportunity earlier in the meeting to share with the community the current status of his contractor's license. Steve had not accepted the opportunity. So, without further delay, the inspections representative shared with us that Steve's license had been suspended last November 2006! He did not know the reason for the suspension because he had not asked. Steve gave us an explanation that I now know was another fabrication.

Needless to say, we were stunned.

The project can continue with sub-contractors doing their work and getting their permits approved. However, until a new general contractor is designated for the project, no certificate of occupancy will be issued.

My guess is Steve was hoping to bluff his way through the project and prayed no one would figure out the truth. Unfortunately, when we notified the City that we wanted a representative from inspections to attend the meeting, the City did a background check on the project and discovered this little tidbit of information.

There is to be a write-up in the N&O, hopefully tomorrow, about the project and the current situation. Since I did not speak personally to the licensing board, I will not address what I was told was the reason for the suspension. Why the license wasn't out and out revoked, based on what I was told, I honestly don't know. A quick web search of Steve Fitzpatrick brought up more disturbing information about fraud.


__________________________

I just discovered this site while researching info about Fitzpatrick. One issue that I've seen noted a number of times is the location of parking. I participated in the community discussions about this project and the parking issue. We debated long and hard about parking, well aware that the "proper" location was behind the building. However, we had also been dealing with drugs and prostitution at this site before it burned down and had serious concerns about the safety of residents in the condos and neighbor's ability to see what was going on, should the police need to be called. We'll never know if our choice was the best or not. However, it WAS thought out and discussed rather thoroughly before the project was even designed. Hopefully the large amount of sidewalk in front of the parking area AND in front of the shops will encourage pedestrians. This is a very dog oriented neighborhood with the dog park so close.


Now we see that there’re still blind spots that will require illumination (Steve assures us it will be there). Between the building and the wall that separates private homes from the property is one of them. We’re hoping that residents of the condos will be a big influence and closing all shops by 10 pm will also help. We do not want to go back where were. I can only HOPE we do not. A change in property management might be the best thing in the world.

While it would have been great if ALL elements of modern urban design were incorporated in this project, perhaps we could be happy that MANY of them were.

Sorry for the length of this particular posting. I’ll try to keep future postings more brief- I do have more comments about the project!

[Jones133]

I for one welcome the lengthy posts and all their info. I drive by this project every afternoon, and appreciate you taking the time to post.

[JeffC]

Here is the story from todays N&O:

http://www.newsobser...ory/651201.html



This guy sounds like a character nearly as shady as the folks who used to hang out on that corner...

[Andijl]

I too drive by there every day. I just read the article and I am disgusted.

[ncwebguy]

I guessed something other than "city red tape" was holding the project up. Getting caught for forgery is a little more than red tape, unless you are the forger.

The sputtering construction -- short bursts of a lot of work/improvment with long droughts of little to no activity -- also make sense now given the past history of the devleoper/contractor.

There isn't a problem in that area like there used to be. Prostitution, drugs, and other illicit business could have been conducted in the Oakwood Park area after the fire, but it didn't. Oakwood Park's Brookside parking lot has a swing arm to close it at night, but has been left open for years now. The redevelopment of Halifax Court eliminated the criminal activity in that area.

Closing stores early and having a parking lot out front doesn't help deter loitering. Ask the stores in the 700 block of East Martin Street. There are always people hanging out there, day or night. They don't care if people can see them in the parking lot, as long as they buy a soda or a pack of cigarettes, they are customers. The police can ask them to move, but as soon as the officer is out of sight, it is business as usual. The open air market is so established there, I doubt it will move back to Brookside. Prostitution moved from there to the Oakwood/Jones/Idlewild area for a while, and police operations there have cleaned that area up as well.

Having nothing on the Brookside/Glascock corner for seven years, combined with the redevelopment of Halifax Court and the nearby neighborhoods, will have a greater affect on people hanging out, drugs, and prositution than the placement of the parking. The developer probably used those fears to get what he wanted -- plenty of parking visisble from the road. The backside parking lot will allow prostitution, etc. to be conducted out of the view of passing cars and pedestrians.

[capitalapts]

I figured I'd give this thread a bump a year after the last comment was made. I haven't seen any progress there since then, either. Does anyone have any news?

[Jones133]

I drive by every day. The sidewalks are finally finished! I also from time to time see a small crew in one of the stores but nothing is open or occupied.

[Jones133]

There appears some more movement here with a contractors sign out front (small, blue...missed the name) and new piles of interior upfit materials in the retail spaces.