Charlotte Center City Streetcar Network

[atlrvr]

A streetcar can end without a loop if it is a reverse Y......they are willing to do this as long a road has low traffic counts.

Now all they need is a line running down Morehead from Wilkinson onto Queens and then Providence.

[dubone]

...true about Morehead-Queens-Providence. That corridor is getting the nice desner infill for folks wanting to live in "Myer's Park". The only reason i'd not be supportive of that route is if it meant that the corridor would lose its charm... but many parts of morehead and that stretch of queens had their charmed wrecked a bit over time.... to transit could help redev those areas.

The REAL need, though, is for these things to just happen . I just wish we could build the whole dang system at once and pay for it over 25 years, rather than build it over 25 years .

Does anyone know if streetcar on existing street row have less engineering red tape for the feds? They are so much like a bus route, i can't image the environmental assessments are that complicated. It is just nuts to figure that many of these corridors probably still have tracks embedded deep under the asphalt. sigh. the old maps of the streetcar lines from the 30s and 40s are really cool. This new info on these spurs really make me optimistic that we can get that charm back.

[orulz]

A streetcar can end without a loop if it is a reverse Y......they are willing to do this as long a road has low traffic counts.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Streetcars need neither a loop nor a wye. They are bi-directional vehicles. The driver simply walks from one end of the vehicle to the other, and switches pantographs. Doesn't get any easier than that.

[atlrvr]

True.....but for double-tracked lines you need the Y....otherwise their could be problems.

[dubone]

the bottom line seems to be that a spur that just ends at a point on a map is doable, as long as traffic counts/space allow the right track parts.

[dubone]

CATS has really updated their websites lately.

There are a bunch of renderings of the Trade++ streetcar at

http://www.charmeck.org/Departments/CATS/R...ty+Meetings.htm

there a number of renderings to displays the "wye" we talked about above.... but if these spurs happen, they'd likely do the same thing as in these presentations, where they determine whether to do a block loop or a wye-reversal.

Also, check out the 1928 trolley maps on pg 5 on the Central/Hawthorne Ave Wkshp Presentation. These presentations have a lot of info.

Edited May 30, 2005 by dubone

[dubone]

...And page 20 of the Trade Street /Elizabeth Ave.Workshop Presentation has the maps of the spur lines we have been talking about...

It actually only shows he siegel line as going to belmont ave and the kworth line going a little further than pierce (i think to the cross alley behind Latta Pavilion).

[Sabaidee]

oh so that's how they will do it, for the temporary end of the line at Plaza, I hope they don't do the loop but do a Y instead, it looks easier that way.

[dubone]

i agree that the wye's look less complicated, but sadly only the loops will put the trains between the old central storefronts, which would be ashame.

[Mobuchu]

Extending the trolley down kenilworth to park and all the way to south park would be great. I wonder if they stoped it where they did because of the intersections at east blvd? Kenilworth and Scott are at high angles to east blvd. You can see the scrape marks on the road where cars either went too fast through the intersection or were just low riding. With the structure of Latta pavilion being so close to the road how much of a hassle would they have with smoothing out kenilworth and scott? Im sure streetcars cant handle angles like that.

Either way, I guess thats why engineers get paid the big bucks, lol.

[dubone]

i'm sure they stopped it where they did because of money. These spur lines sum to be of roughly equal length to the original loop.

I'm sure any gradation changes would just be minor construction hurdles.

[Sabaidee]

...And page 20 of the Trade Street /Elizabeth Ave.Workshop Presentation has the maps of the spur lines we have been talking about...

It actually only shows he siegel line as going to belmont ave and the kworth line going a little further than pierce (i think to the cross alley behind Latta Pavilion).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm tryin to find that link, which link is that in?

[dubone]

i know. i tried to add all sorts of links, but they seem to 404 when you use them again.

try this one:

http://www.charmeck.org/Departments/CATS/R...il+May+2005.htm

also note that all of these terminus and route variations are all options at this point. they are still mulling over them. They are even considering 4th or 5th routes through the city on the main line with trade as just one direction.

The later docs, though, seem to have the H circulator routes rather than the O (ie. graham, cedar, mcdowell, kworth, siegel rather than 10th, 2nd, graham, mcd) seeming like those are currently the thinking of cats.

[dubone]

here is the historical map from the presentations:

Solid Blue: 1928 trolley routes

Dashed Magenta: Plaza-Midwood to JC Smith route, by 2009

Dashed Green: Beatties Ford and Central Extensions, by 2017

Dashed Cyan: Central circulator spurs, by 2025

[Raintree21]

I noticed today that the old tracks at the Cedar Yards (behind the stadium), off Cedar Street were missing the old train passenger cars that were there (there were like 4 or 5 cars that were about 75 feet long. Does this have anything to do with the rail line development or just a coincidence?

[dubone]

i don't know the story on those railcars, but i know that i haven't seen them in a little while.

[atlrvr]

http://charlotte.bizjournals.com/charlotte...tml?jst=b_ln_hl

This article is fairly boring, talking about Charlotte bond ratings....however, they mention the bonds to be used to construct the "Rosa Parks Transit Center"......does anyone have a clue what this is referring to?

[monsoon]

This is a new transit center to be located on a street of the same name Rosa Parks, Place. It is located off Beaties Ford Road near I-85. I don't know why they don't call it the Rosa Parks Bus Station, because that is what it is.

[atlrvr]

Thank you kindly.....this would be the end of the line of the streetcar too correct? Or would it end on the other side of 85?

[monsoon]

It is on the west side of I-85. Looks like the June 2005 plan doesn't even have the proposed street car coming close to this area at all. There is come kind of enhanced bus service scheduled for the Rosa Parks Center.

[dubone]

the most recent community presentation (May 05) on the streetcar line shows the beatties ford streetcar extension going all the way to hoskins road, with a Rosa Parks Place being listed as a potential stop.

Where is the June info that shows it stopping shorter?

http://www.charmeck.org/Departments/CATS/R...il+May+2005.htm

[monsoon]

Here it is at this link

The maps on that page show it turning off trade just before I-77 and heading towards Freedom Drive and Morehead. I've clipped the important bit into this image.

Note there is still an alternative plan on the books to make this all buses. i.e. no LRT or Street Car.

[dubone]

i believe that the west morehead to wilkinson streetcar route is an option for the west corridor, which is an independent project from the Beatties Ford - Trade - Central Ave corridor. this map would be 'in addition to' the Beatties Ford extension rather than 'in lieu of'.

[monsoon]

I believe the West Streetcar Route proposal that you are referring to, that was in the original 2025 plan, has been eliminated. The only thing on the books now is is going down W. Trade to I-85 is the enhanced bus route that will terminate at the Rosa Parks Center.

I've been known to be wrong though.

[orulz]

From what I've read, I believe dubone is correct. The first phase of the streetcars, which may happen as soon as 2009, will run mosly along Trade Street and Elizabeth Avenue. The later extensions will go along Beatties Ford Road as far as Rosa Parks Place, and along Central Avenue to Eastland Mall. Both extensions were in the original 2025 plan, and neither have been dropped. The improved bus service that monsoon mentioned might be an interim measure until the streetcar lines can be fully built out.

The map monsoon posted along Morehead and Wilkinson shows the alignment options for the West Corridor line to the airport. This is a seperate project from the Trade / Central / Beatties Ford streetcar. LRT, streetcar, and BRT are all under consideration, but I think LRT has been all but eliminated due to cost. The streetcar option was added sometime last year. It offers similar capacity to LRT and is percieved as superior to buses, but costs less to build. The downside is that trips will be slower, but that's not a huge problem since the line is relatively short.