Charlotte Center City Streetcar Network

[uptownliving]

Yeah I'll likely use it again...as it is faster than walking.

[dubone]

I rode it for the first time yesterday, too.   I had forgotten how elegant and wooden the inside is.  I'm sure I have written this before, but tourist/visitors are very likely to take the ride for an experience, just as they ride segways and horse-carriages around 4th Ward.  Because Charlotte is quite lacking in things for visitors to do, so it will surely be on that list.   

 

It is not yet convenient transit for me until Phase II because of where I live, but it did enhance the experience of walking uptown then riding out to Elizabeth for dinner or lunch.  

I had forgotten the CTC outbound station was west of Brevard, so that was a moment of annoyance as others have mentioned.  It really could/should have been closer to Epicenter under the light rail bridge instead of building tiny shelters when the bridge is basically a big roof. 

There were around 30 people waiting to get on but only a couple people got on after that.  

I did hear some lower class people mocking it while they rode it.  They had no concept that it cost far less than the other things they mentioned as alternatives.  I think they don't realize how little it cost for a city as wealthy as ours.   The local cost was $12m, which is less than the cost of upcoming renovations to the NW School of the Arts.   I mean we paid 7x that amount at $87.5 for jumbotrons and staircases for BofA Stadium!   And weirdly they were mainly complaining that it was too short of a line, not seeming to get that a) that meant less was spent and b) there is more to come.   Phase II, I believe, will silence many more critics, but as it will serve many more neighborhoods and have the larger tram vehicles.     

There were a few pedestrians at CPCC that made poor timing choices and I felt the driver start to slow in case, but for the most part the corridor felt free of other cars.   I believe that will continue naturally as drivers attempt to avoid the street but I almost think it should be made more official with "Local Traffic Only" signs.   There is no reason for drivers to not prefer the 3rd-4th pair or the 5th-6th pair of major one way streets unless they are local traffic, and there is no real consequence if they do end up going farther, but it will make the corridor more transit dominated so the buses and streetcar can move more freely.  

 

 

 

 

Edited July 24, 2015 by dubone

[15895]

I think another good thing is the mass transit to our major educational institutions will help keep kids interested in sticking around and getting them interested in an urban lifestyle

 

on another note, I think MTC should go ahead and give streetcar priority lighting since Charlotte is footing the bill

 

 

edit: and has the "no congregating" sign always been in front of the CTC? 

Edited July 24, 2015 by AirNostrumMAD

[tozmervo]

Yes, for a long time. They've perpetually had issues with large groups of people (mostly young black men) congregating/loitering on the sidewalk along the CTC, especially by the Burger King.

[ajfunder]

I know for at least the construction of phase two the pocket track will have to remain but after phase two is completed do you all think they could remove it and move the CTC platform like originally proposed, or will the pocket track still be needed for staging with phase two in operation? 

 

Also, does phase two include the vehicle maintenance facility at French Street or will they still be using the Scaleybark Facility?

[kermit]

 

Also, does phase two include the vehicle maintenance facility at French Street or will they still be using the Scaleybark Facility?

French St facility is part of phase two. I am still a little confused why they could not incorporate those storage and maintenance tasks in the new yards for the BLE at the old intermodal yards.

[kermit]

I tried to ride for the first time today and had my wife drop me off at Hawthorne. When we got there both cars were nose to nose on the inbound track in front of Earl's. Lots of CATS folks in safety vests directing traffic around the streetcars. Judging by the number of CATS people there, it looked like both had been broken down for a while. I know its still the shakedown phase for the GoldLine, but gezzz

[ajfunder]

Was it a breakdown or an illegally parked car? I doubt both were broken down unless the power in the catenary went down.

Edited July 24, 2015 by ajfunder

[kermit]

Was it a breakdown or an illegally parked car? I doubt both were broken down unless the power in the catenary went down.

It did not appear to be related to a parked car. If it were I would not have expected both streetcars to be back to back (one should have held at the Hawthorne terminus)

[ajfunder]

Just talked to a CATS supervisor, streetcar 91 had a mechanical issue. Streetcar back in service as of 5:15. Same vehicle involved in accident.

Edited July 24, 2015 by ajfunder

[kermit]

Just back from my first ride on the streetcar (thanks ajfunder!). I have a few random observations from the 6pm trip: 

1) a pair of grandparents and grandkid in a stroller were waiting at the inbound platform at CTCC for the outbound ride. I went down and let them know they were in the wrong place. As toz mentioned, the outbound CTC station feels like its a long way from the Blue Line -- I do hope that gets rectified in phase two.

2) The driver was a little on the surly side, it appeared they had a bad day (more on this in #12).

3) The outbound ride had about 12-15 people on it. Folks boarded at every stop inside 277.

4) Signal preemption would REALLY speed up the trip. Travel speed feels fine, the time spent at lights is annoying. 

5) Mixing with autos seemed to be a non-issue

6) A guy who boarded at CTC wanted to get off at CPCC but didn't know to ring the bell (the bell cord is not self-evident) so he shouted as the driver left the station

7) #91 (see above) passed us going inbound but it was out of service. It had the driver and three other CATS guys on board (no one else). They driver of 91 gave a 'I got no idea what the problem is' gesture to our driver. It passed us again on my inbound trip -- still not in service.

8) basically zero dwell time at Hawthorne (hard to keep a schedule that way).

9) about 10 people on the inbound trip. Most boarded at Hawthorne and Travis. One guy said "this is the most fun I had all week." and another guy who boarded at CPCC (who I believe was drinking grain alcohol out of a bojangles cup through a straw) said he 'really liked this ride' because it was 'much less congested [crowded]' than the LRT. He dubbed it to be a 'good use of all the money I [he] put into the system.' 

10) While I had ridden past the jail, courthouse and CPCC many times, the lack of development opportunities there is more depressing when viewed from the GoldLine.

11) I was annoyed that the map on the Streetcar did not show any route information for the Blue Line.

12) The driver is very exposed to riders (they are part of the crowd). This means that its important for them to not be cranky and it can also lead to some discomfort for the drivers (the drunk bojangles guy was eager to chat with (and about) the driver). In addition, the streetcar appears to be the 'first timers' transit choice, the streetcar drivers really need to be friendly (kinda like SF cable car operators) in order to cultivate more riders over time. The driver on this trip did not win any new riders.

Despite some issues I thought the GoldLine was better (more crowded and more useful) than I expected. Despite its length, the starter segment is a nice addition to our network. If they include signal premption with phase two then I think beotching about streetcars may stop.

 

 

Edited July 28, 2015 by kermit

[jednc]

On the first trip of the Gold Line no one but me remembered the seats are reversible. When I flipped the back so I would be riding forward on the return trip, several people looked amazed. No one else on the streetcar flipped their seat (most didn't even get up). I'm wondering now that it's been in operation for a while if people are flipping the seats?

[ajfunder]

^I have had the same reaction from people when I flip my seat but people are less surprised by it now. I do see some people do it but most people just don't seem to care which way they are facing.  

Anybody notice that at least one of the streetcars still has an advertisement for advertising opportunities on the original Atherton to 9th Street trolley alignment stations?

[ah59396]

Rode the streetcar for the first time today.  For all its slowness and it being super loud, I love the damn thing.  FML.

[dubone]

12) The driver is very exposed to riders (they are part of the crowd). This means that its important for them to not be cranky and it can also lead to some discomfort for the drivers (the drunk bojangles guy was eager to chat with (and about) the driver). In addition, the streetcar appears to be the 'first timers' transit choice, the streetcar drivers really need to be friendly (kinda like SF cable car operators) in order to cultivate more riders over time.

 

 

It's a shame the volunteer community of the old Charlotte Trolley organization has mostly dispersed.  I used to love the big suspendered conductor on the SouthEnd Trolley that prefaced the Blue Line.   They need to recognize the tourist component as much as possible and maybe have a tour guide like that trolley did.   It is transit, but if they went that extra little bit, even with volunteers or charitably-funded (are they allowed to work on tips?)  to add the tour component, it might be nice.  They can explain all the things that once were there along that route, and even point out things that remain:

For example, although there is a lot they could talk about beyond just the old buildings:

- East Trade buildings http://www.cmhpf.org/Surveys/survey400blktrade.htm

- Old City Hall http://cmhpf.org/S&R Index Pages Alphabetical/surveysrcityhall.htm

- Old Churches http://cmhpf.org/S&Rs Alphabetical Order/surveys&radvent.htm / http://cmhpf.org/S&Rs Alphabetical Order/surveys&reastavetab.htm

- Central High School 

- Biberstein House http://cmhpf.org/S&Rs Alphabetical Order/surveys&rbiberstein.htm 

- Belk House http://cmhpf.org/S&Rs Alphabetical Order/surveys&rbelkhouse.htm

 

 

Just a touch of a tour would make it a draw for more riders going the full route down and back and loving the experience.  

 

[ah59396]

The loss of those East Trade buildings makes me want to die.

[dubone]

Lol those are all still standing. 

 

You should cry about what we DID lose.  East Trade used to be a row of giant mansions.   One of the last still standing was this one:

http://www.cmhpf.org/S&Rs Alphabetical Order/surveys&rhawley.htm

 

^ This became this:

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.219854,-80.834391

[ah59396]

Lol those are all still standing. 

 

You should cry about what we DID lose.  East Trade used to be a row of giant mansions.   One of the last still standing was this one:

http://www.cmhpf.org/S&Rs Alphabetical Order/surveys&rhawley.htm

 

^ This became this:

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.219854,-80.834391

 

I was referring to the shops that you posted as "East Trade Buildings" where the arena now sits.  Definitely not still standing.

Edited July 28, 2015 by ah59396

[jtbell]

Here's a view of the original Elizabeth Avenue streetcar. The message side of the card is postmarked 1906.

Edited July 28, 2015 by jtbell

[illustration82]

Yes, for a long time. They've perpetually had issues with large groups of people (mostly young black men) congregating/loitering on the sidewalk along the CTC, especially by the Burger King.

Not sure if it was really necessary to specify race in your quote.  "Issues with large groups of people congregating" was really all that needed to be said.  

[DEnd]

Not sure if it was really necessary to specify race in your quote.  "Issues with large groups of people congregating" was really all that needed to be said.  

Unfortunately if it was an area where large groups of young white women were congregating it'd be viewed as a happening spot, even if they were drunk and disorderly (maybe especially if they were). 

In the context of this thread I agree with you.  However in regards to our society as a whole it's not healthy to gloss over racial issues.  I admit I'm part of the problem, while I like to think I have a fairly diverse group of friends, I have absolutely no idea on how to address many of the issues.  Some of the issues I think I have a decent handle on, such as enforcing the need for police to investigate before acting, and better training for police for when they interact with belligerent and/or mentally ill people.  But some like closing the economic and racial education gap I'm fairly clueless on.  I think funding more afterschool care, and creating education opportunities (to learn about what their kids are learning and how to better facilitate their education) for those parents would work, but those are only ideas.  And those ideas only tangentially address the core problem of acceptance of others.

So while it wasn't strictly necessary to point out that the issue may have mainly centered around young black men (and thus society's acceptance of them), It is important to point out the symptom so that we can get to the problem, and hopefully find a solution. 

Edited July 28, 2015 by DEnd

[illustration82]

I agree.  The problem is simply that large groups of people are congregating near and around that area.  It would (or should) be a problem regardless of who they are.  I think we all come to this forum to express our common interest and support for the streetcar.  We should probably just keep the focus on that. I for one love coming to this forum to hear everyone's thoughts and feelings about the streetcar service, but hearing comments like that can be a little off putting. Even if it wasn't said out of malice or ill intent.  Of course I do recognize that it wasn't, however I couldn't help but to be bothered by it. 

[tozmervo]

Exactly, it should be a problem regardless of the group loitering, but it's not. It bothers me that it needed to be added, but I stand by it. I think not including that fact would have been disingenuous to the actual issue and just buried it in a "wink wink nudge nudge" way. Large groups of low income black men have an image problem, and by grouping around the CTC it adds to the CTC's image problem. And that's how you end up with (useless) "no loitering" signs and large generator-run area lights on the sidewalks. Is that right? It is not. As DEnd indicated, censoring the reality helps no one in the end. 

[dubone]

I think the real issue is there are other additional adjectives missing.  For example, I was in Portland a couple weeks ago, and loitering by white people was a serious serious problem.     No, not those white people standing in line for local vegan watercress donuts, OTHER white people, namely paranoid, dirty,  tweaker white people that would steal your clothes off your back if they can be sold for their next toe-poke of smack.       

In Charlotte there are very many places with groups of black people hanging out that also are viewed as happening spots, places I would love to hang out.  They are of a different class or behavior or culture or list of accomplishments of people, though.   People pay hundreds of dollars to watch a group of mainly black men hanging around because they are athletes on a pro team, or even amateurs that people enjoy playing ball with in the park.  A group of black men in button ups coming out of church?  Another group of suited black men having a power lunch because they are senior executives at Wells Fargo?   A band playing on Tryon?   No one is scared or unhappy with their blackness, it is their other qualities.  

To further the point, I loved having a black friend over to my house this week in our diverse group of friends (and didn't think till now that he was black), and highly respect my black manager. But when I called out to a racing car to slow down in my neighborhood, I was very scared when I realized that they were a certain kind of people: seats back, all red clothing, flat billed cap, angry look on their tatted faces despite their black & milds, and briefly got worried if they would retaliate (they somewhat did by stepping on the gas and squealing around the next corner).    

I'm ready to judge by content of character now, and the subgroup of people that are up to no good loitering at the CTC destroying public property and the quality of the urban space by intimidating strangers, littering, roughhousing, etc., are not my favorite people regardless of their race. 

Edited July 29, 2015 by dubone

[dubone]

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/article29594200.html

It is a bit of a not-news article, but at least it is opening the conversation about the larger tram cars on the the Gold line now that people have some observations of the replica trolleys.  

 

A lot of people don't really understand the phasing of the line, so more articles like this, the better. I think to support some of the more visionary aspects like using these tracks for light rail to the suburbs, I would hope they make Trade less and less of a car street. 

Edited July 31, 2015 by dubone