Transit Updates for Greater Grand Rapids

[Fester]

FINALLY!

 

THis posted on the Amtrak.com website:

 

Effective October 27, 2014, the Grand Rapids, MI station will move to a new facility at 440 Century Avenue, Southwest, Grand Rapids, MI 49503 about a half mile east of the current stop.

[Fester]

Well, if what Amtrak & NS says is true about train delays in the Midwest, Detroit, Port Huron and Grand Rapids trains should start being more on time, starting NOW (actually, a few days ago).

Englewood flyover opened recently, strangely without any press. Odd for being CREATE's first completed Passenger project. Here's a YouToob video of a Metra train using the flyover. NS line it used to meet/cross appears at 2:20. Flyover elinites interference betwixt a two-track mainline and a three-track mainline.

Poster had also put up multiple videos over time of the project, and they're worth doing a "sort by post date" and checking them all out if you're inro major building projects and that sort of stuff.

[GRDadof3]

Well, if what Amtrak & NS says is true about train delays in the Midwest, Detroit, Port Huron and Grand Rapids trains should start being more on time, starting NOW (actually, a few days ago).

Englewood flyover opened recently, strangely without any press. Odd for being CREATE's first completed Passenger project. Here's a YouToob video of a Metra train using the flyover. NS line it used to meet/cross appears at 2:20. Flyover elinites interference betwixt a two-track mainline and a three-track mainline.

Poster had also put up multiple videos over time of the project, and they're worth doing a "sort by post date" and checking them all out if you're inro major building projects and that sort of stuff.

 

 

Wow, I read the description of this project and 78 Metra trains and 60 freight and Amtrak trains pass through there a day! All crossing each other before the flyover was completed. No wonder there were delays.

 

http://chi.streetsblog.org/2013/05/03/englewood-flyover-now-under-construction-will-reduce-metra-delays/

[grandrollerz]

I didn't find much discussion on the Laker Line so i'll add a few things.

 

There was an October meeting that has a proposed plan:  http://www.lakerline.org/about/reports/october14_meetingnotes/ .  It looks like service to Allendale and connection to Central Stations were both nixed from the plan....seems shortsighted but I get it. I didn't see any mention of having a non-student park and ride lot at GVSU, but I think that will be necessary for locals to take advantage of the service without having a campus parking sticker.  There will be larger buses and mixed dedicated lanes which will be good for commuters.  It will be interesting to see the details of how they plan to put a station on LMD + Covell...that's a busy and cramped intersection.  With the plan for a new commuter lot on Maynard/LMD I hope the old Westdale building and lot on Covell/LMD are converted to something, or at least the building torn down. It's an eyesore, especially in the summer when overgrown with weeds. I predict they'll need to move faster than starting construction in 2017 is GVSU keeps growing like it has been over the last several years.

[joeDowntown]

I think the Laker Line will be very successful. How is the Silverline doing? Whenever I peer inside the buses, they seem empty

[droonus2000]

I saw one of the Silverline buses on NYE on Michigan. It was completely empty. I figured people were not using it because they did not know how late it was running.

Sometimes I see them fairly full, sometimes quite empty.

[x99]

The numbers certainly look good so far. Of course, the detractors will be quick to point out that the route was free for much of that time, and the "new and shiny" factor probably also played a role. They're absolutely right—it's much too early to label the SL as either a success or a failure.

 

http://woodtv.com/2015/03/17/rapid-officials-silver-line-numbers-are-promising/  Just in case anyone missed this a couple weeks ago, there are some updated ridership figures out there:  Still, about 2200 rides per day, but about 1000 of those were spillover from Route 1, for a net "new rides" (assuming no other routes lost riders) of about 1200.  Assuming they go both ways, the line is serving about 600 potentially new riders.  Is it still too early to say whether this was a good idea? 

[RegalTDP]

http://woodtv.com/20...-are-promising/ 

 

 

 

However, not everyone is on board with the bus rapid transit. While 24 Hour News 8’s Marc Thompson was at a Silver Line stop, someone in a car shouted “waste of money”.

 

 

 

That's some excellent, hard-nosed reporting.

[GRDadof3]

http://woodtv.com/2015/03/17/rapid-officials-silver-line-numbers-are-promising/  Just in case anyone missed this a couple weeks ago, there are some updated ridership figures out there:  Still, about 2200 rides per day, but about 1000 of those were spillover from Route 1, for a net "new rides" (assuming no other routes lost riders) of about 1200.  Assuming they go both ways, the line is serving about 600 potentially new riders.  Is it still too early to say whether this was a good idea? 

 

Just pretend like you don't see it, because it's not going to go away, no matter how many times you ask. 

[walker]

Well MDOT and Amtrak are changing the schedule of the Pere Marquette to leave Grand Rapids at 6 in the morning instead of 7:40 and return around midnight instead of 10 PM:

 

http://fox17online.com/2015/04/21/grand-rapids-to-chicago-amtrak-train-to-leave-earlier-return-later/

 

So what’s the reason for this absurd change?  The reason the news releases claim is because the crews will now be based in Grand Rapids instead of Chicago. That is not the reason but does explain why it is possible to do it since a Chicago crew coming in the night before, as they do now, wouldn't be able to do the return trip the next morning that early because of sleep requirements.  The real reason is because train buffs have been pushing for a second train which is fine.  Since there is no extra equipment for a second train, the idea is that the same train set will do a fast turn around and leave Chicago around 10 AM CSD and arrive in Holland in the afternoon then turn around again and leave Holland around 3 PM to go back to Chicago (not enough time to go all the way to Grand Rapids.)  The train after turning again would leave Chicago for the night trip to Grand Rapids leaving Chicago at 6:30 PM.

 

The problems with this are probably obvious but I’ll list them anyway:

 

1. Getting up at four or five in the morning in order to catch a train at six is not going to appeal to many people; there are many alternate ways to get to Chicago. I suspect that any schedule earlier than seven is going to result in a big drop-off in customers.

 

2. Returning around midnight isn't a great idea either. 

 

3. Even though the schedule for the single train is being changed May 1, the second train hasn't even been announced and it possibly may never happen.

 

4. When and if it starts, the second train has the same time problem but in reverse, it will leave Chicago too late to be very practical not to mention it will only go as far as Holland.

 

5. As long as the Pere Marquette trains have to use the Norfolk Railroad's tracks along the bottom of Lake Michigan, it is unlikely that they will be able to adhere to the tight schedules they would need for two trains using one train-set.  After all, the existing train has a bad on time record as it is without having to turn.       

Edited April 21, 2015 by walker

[arcturus]

 

Well MDOT and Amtrak are changing the schedule of the Pere Marquette to leave Grand Rapids at 6 in the morning instead of 7:40 and return around midnight instead of 10 PM:

 

 

Watch the 11:10 am Megabus skyrocket in popularity (if it hasn't already).

[jonathan.jam]

This is why we always drive down to Kalamazoo and leave from there instead.

[Quercus]

"The current schedule was not developed with passengers in mind..." says MDOT.

Oh, MDOT. You so silly. Can't say I'm surprised. Sure seems like someone powerful within MDOT is on a mission to bring the place down from the inside.

[x99]

"The current schedule was not developed with passengers in mind..." says MDOT.

Oh, MDOT. You so silly. Can't say I'm surprised. Sure seems like someone powerful within MDOT is on a mission to bring the place down from the inside.

 

Who are these idiots?  I always liked riding the train to Chicago, but I can't imagine ever taking it much, if at all, with this schedule.  I would sooner take just about any other mode of transportation than a 6AM train that lumbers its way to Chicago averaging about 45 miles an hour.

[wingbert]

As a parent, I can tell you that my kids find nothing more fun than getting up at 4:00 in the morning and then not getting home until after midnight.  Plus, tired kids are so much fun for the parents too!  This is some genius thinking.

[Allison Slater]

And anyone who takes a bus to and from the train station will now have difficulty doing so.

*tinfoil hat* Perhaps some grumpy conservative leadership, upset money spent on the train station wants to sabotage service so they can point at it and yell "taxpayer waste," making an example out of liberal central GR.

[Quercus]

I don't think your idea is that crazy, tSlater; this decision has a "death by a thousand cuts" feel to it.

How much money will Amtrak save by having a crew based in GR? How much will ridership and fare sales drop at the same time? Seems like both service and the bottom line will suffer.

[GRDadof3]

I've never ridden Amtrak to Chicago. It sounds like with the old schedule, you basically got 5 hours to spend there if you just went for the day. Now you'll have more like 8? It sounds better but I agree the departure/arrival times sound sucky. 

[Raildudes dad]

The current schedule puts the Chi - GR train right in the middle of the rush hour commuter trains.  If the PM misses it's outbound slot, it's SOL. Based on what I've heard and seen, Amtrak has to run a bus to GR almost every night due to the PM leaving before the Empire Builder gets in.  When the EB is late, it misses it's inbound slot and it get delayed even more and the connection was tight with both trains on time.  Inbound to Chicago in the AM can be late since most of the outbound connecting trains are in the afternoon. Plus it is more likely to be on time for it's inbound slot in the AM.

 

As for the early AM departure, our family has been known to get up at 4:30 - 5am to be at the airport by 6ish to catch a 7ish plane to FL. Is this any different if you wish to spend a whole day in downtown Chi. Or taking the last possible flight back to GR to maximize your time in FL or elsewhere and getting in at midnight.

 

Maximize hours for a day trip to Chi and improve on time performance - reliability - sounds like an improvement to me. If ridership drops, they can always go back to the current schedule.

 

When our kids were small, they looked forward to a day trip to downtown Chi on Amtrak every year or two even if only 5 hours.

Edited April 22, 2015 by Raildudes dad

[fotoman311]

The current schedule puts the Chi - GR train right in the middle of the rush hour commuter trains.  If the PM misses it's outbound slot, it's SOL. Based on what I've heard and seen, Amtrak has to run a bus to GR almost every night due to the PM leaving before the Empire Builder gets in.  When the EB is late, it misses it's inbound slot and it get delayed even more and the connection was tight with both trains on time.  Inbound to Chicago in the AM can be late since most of the outbound connecting trains are in the afternoon. Plus it is more likely to be on time for it's inbound slot in the AM.

 

As for the early AM departure, our family has been known to get up at 4:30 - 5am to be at the airport by 6ish to catch a 7ish plane to FL. Is this any different if you wish to spend a whole day in downtown Chi. Or taking the last possible flight back to GR to maximize your time in FL or elsewhere and getting in at midnight.

 

Maximize hours for a day trip to Chi and improve on time performance - reliability - sounds like an improvement to me. If ridership drops, they can always go back to the current schedule.

 

When our kids were small, they looked forward to a day trip to downtown Chi on Amtrak every year or two even if only 5 hours.

 

I agree with Raildudes Dad. I'd prefer to have more time in Chicago, even if it means I'll get back a little later.

 

I think this will help with the train connections to St. Louis, as well. My recollection when I went to St. Louis 5 years ago was that I had a pretty tight window getting back to Chicago before the GR train left.

[GRDadof3]

If people are interested in more info about the new West Side/Maynard park-n-ride lot that the city is building:

 

) 334 spaces, leased on land owned by GVSU

) City will take 224 spaces, GVSU will keep the remaining 100

) Spectrum Health has already spoken for 100 of the city's 224

 

According to the agreement, the city's parking consultant is recommending no cost for parking and a free ride on the bus for all parkers.

 

This article says that it's about a 12 minute ride to the Pew campus downtown and 19 minutes to the Central Station on the current Rapid bus from the Maynard area:

 

http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2015/04/12-minute_bus_ride_downtown_fr.html

 

[arcturus]

Pretty good walk for EB passengers in the dead of winter.  Traffic moves swiftly at that intersection so lights are a must.  EB bus stop in front of Bayberry Pointe will no doubt be closed with Maynard/L MI Dr stop 1/2 block to the east.

[GRDadof3]

Pretty good walk for EB passengers in the dead of winter.  Traffic moves swiftly at that intersection so lights are a must.  EB bus stop in front of Bayberry Pointe will no doubt be closed with Maynard/L MI Dr stop 1/2 block to the east.

 

The addition of a traffic signal at Maynard/LMD is included in the plan. 

[Raildudes dad]

Why wouldn't they run the bus into and out of the lot? WB rght turn in and use Maynard to get back on LD. EB, turn into Maynard, loop the lot back to Maynard to a left turn at the light.

[GRDadof3]

Why wouldn't they run the bus into and out of the lot? WB rght turn in and use Maynard to get back on LD. EB, turn into Maynard, loop the lot back to Maynard to a left turn at the light.

 

This will be part of the new Laker Line BRT. I don't think that venturing off of the main artery goes along with the efficiency models.