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Transit Updates for Greater Grand Rapids


GRDadof3

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... and another Silver Line article:  http://mibiz.com/item/22992-grand-rapids,-lansing-officials-optimistic-about-bus-rapid-transit

There's some strangeness in their calling people who already have cars "choice" riders who they would actively like to attract.  They've had some middling success at that.  Yay!  Of course, since the actual cost of a ride on the Silver Line greatly exceeds the fare, the subsidy is more than enough to fund construction of a private parking ramp with adequate spaces for all of these riders who choose.  From an urban development perspective (in a rinky-dink Midwestern city littered with surface parking), I guess I am still baffled by this allocation of resources unless one assumes that public transit is inherently virtuous and that the parking alternative is inherently evil.  Of course, social virtue seems to be what it's all about, since Silver Line stops are "psychologically more dignified places" than a normal bus stop.  Never mind that on a cold winter day I would much rather prefer one of the crummy old enclosed GRATA stops.  Still not available:  Heated bus stations, because they would quickly be used as sleeping shacks for the drunken and despondent.  Dignified, indeed.

EDIT:  Second point of the article:  It is this "psychological dignity" that apparently justified spending $64 million on the Laker Line, which is fully redundant of a currently-existing bus route.  Supposedly it will save lots of time without causing any traffic congestion by the spreading of magical fairly dust all along the route which will enable the re-christened "Laker Line" buses to float and run on unicorn farts.  Tax dollars hard at work!

Edited by x99
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  • 3 months later...
2 hours ago, ctpgr34 said:

I'm going to go out on a limb and predict that internet commenters will view this as a wise expenditure that pay back dividends down the road, and they will express their admiration for the foresight and principle shown by this White House administration in the comments section.

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  • 1 month later...

The Rapid is reviewing station options for the Laker Line at the Pew Campus stops, which will most likely put them under the US-131 overpass at Fulton (instead of off of Mt Vernon). One option shows Mt Vernon being completely closed going Southbound, which I think isn't a bad idea and could make the GVSU campus for pedestrian friendly. The DDA/GR Forward is looking at adding art related seating and elements around the two stations. Thoughts? 

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I like the location and the use of the overpass space. I do hope some  larger crosswalks/signage, education, etc ... could be included for the students that tend to walk out into Fulton street to catch a bus without having a walk signal. I know I sound like a curmudgeonly old man but it's a problem I've experienced firsthand and our neighborhood police office brings it up frequently. I know college kids are blissfully unaware of the actual world in which they are existing but they'll become aware quickly when someone gets hurt. 

... end rant

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1 hour ago, thebeerqueer said:

I like the location and the use of the overpass space. I do hope some  larger crosswalks/signage, education, etc ... could be included for the students that tend to walk out into Fulton street to catch a bus without having a walk signal. I know I sound like a curmudgeonly old man but it's a problem I've experienced firsthand and our neighborhood police office brings it up frequently. I know college kids are blissfully unaware of the actual world in which they are existing but they'll become aware quickly when someone gets hurt. 

... end rant

I travel under here daily and have almost hit the students running across the street under the overpass many times.  With the low light and glare from the sun on the other side it makes it hard to see.  I would love to see a different option than what currently exists.

 

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Here's what irritates me, to no end about the Laker Line concept.  All it is is a bunch of fancy bus stops.  They have actually been running that same line with their existing buses and stops for I think over a year now.  It's going to shave effectively ZERO time off of the current route.  Maybe someone can explain to me just why all this money needs to be spent?  I don't get it.  I grilled someone once from, maybe the city or from the Rapid, about just what advantages this would bring, such as more riders or time savings.  They really had no meaningful answers at that point other than "nicer bus stops"...  Anyone know if they've managed to gin up some sort of grand argument for spending the money yet?

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I ride the Silver Line regularly, and other lines occasionally. In my experience, BRT shines when there is heavy traffic. If you have a dozen riders waiting to get on, the bus only needs to stop for 30 seconds, rather than multiple minutes as you wait for each rider to navigate the fare vending machine. The level boarding platform and snow-melt system also make wheelchair boarding much quicker.

There are also benefits around increasing the image of public transit—waiting at a lighted stop feels safer and nicer than standing next to a signpost. However, I don't think image is the concern here, as college students are already more willing to take public transit (due to financial considerations and generational differences), so increased peak capacity is definitely the goal here.

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40 minutes ago, x99 said:

Here's what irritates me, to no end about the Laker Line concept.  All it is is a bunch of fancy bus stops.  They have actually been running that same line with their existing buses and stops for I think over a year now.  It's going to shave effectively ZERO time off of the current route.  Maybe someone can explain to me just why all this money needs to be spent?  I don't get it.  I grilled someone once from, maybe the city or from the Rapid, about just what advantages this would bring, such as more riders or time savings.  They really had no meaningful answers at that point other than "nicer bus stops"...  Anyone know if they've managed to gin up some sort of grand argument for spending the money yet?

The Laker Line will have larger, articulating buses that will be able to move more people, quickly between Allendale and DT. During the school year many of the buses are at capacity. Signal priority and the level boarding are also benefits of BRT. 

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17 minutes ago, thebeerqueer said:

The Laker Line will have larger, articulating buses that will be able to move more people, quickly between Allendale and DT. During the school year many of the buses are at capacity. Signal priority and the level boarding are also benefits of BRT. 

It's college students... The level boarding probably isn't much of a benefit.  The articulating buses are great, but again, that's something that could easily be worked in as capital replacement needs arise.  

Is this proposal going to include dedicated bus lanes?  That's where the real problem with these systems comes in.  They actually reduce the carrying capacity of the roads upon which they are situated (at least they do the way we do them around here) by impeding the flow of traffic and eliminating available travel lanes.  If they aren't going to dedicate lanes, it may not be that big a deal.  If they are... it's just another boondoggle pretending to be "green" that really isn't.   

When they did the Silverline, it redirected a lot of traffic up 131, up Lafayette, up Madison, up just about any other street people could get to that went through most of the way.  There are no similar "safety valve" streets here.  Lake Drive is it, and if they start sucking lanes off of it, that's a problem.  We already know the claimed "economic development" benefits are a total fraud, so let's at least not trash traffic in the name of "green" and end up creating more pollution and congestion.  If they don't do that, hopefully it's really just an issue of updating a system that needs some updates, and slapping a fancy label on it.  

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1 hour ago, x99 said:

Here's what irritates me, to no end about the Laker Line concept.  All it is is a bunch of fancy bus stops.  They have actually been running that same line with their existing buses and stops for I think over a year now.  It's going to shave effectively ZERO time off of the current route.  Maybe someone can explain to me just why all this money needs to be spent?  I don't get it.  I grilled someone once from, maybe the city or from the Rapid, about just what advantages this would bring, such as more riders or time savings.  They really had no meaningful answers at that point other than "nicer bus stops"...  Anyone know if they've managed to gin up some sort of grand argument for spending the money yet?

The Silverline has been nothing but a failure.

This has a better chance, perception wise, because:

* Students have classes on both ends of the line, meaning there are anchors on either end to make it worth riding. The Silverline has DT and windswept 60th street.

* Along the route is an established and well-maintained shopping district (M45 and Wilson). The Silverline has south Division.

* The fares will actually be paid since it comes out of the tuition of the students.

* it is almost a straight line shot most of the way with little to no significant traffic interruption.

* TOD can actually develop credibly along the route. Especially at the opposite ends of Standale. Good cheap student apartments will be snatched up fast with a reliable BRT running in both directions.

* An articulated bus looks unique enough that it will feel like you are using something "premium" as opposed to the existing Sivlerline. And those existing GVSU buses do get pretty crowded.

 

It likely wont get you anywhere quicker as M45 is already a highway, but it will be better PR, which I suppose is the best the ITP can hope for at this point.

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This will definitely be successful and have very high ridership.  Even when I went to GVSU almost 10 years ago the buses b/w downtown and Allendale were absolutely packed, even when they were running at 4-6 minute intervals.  GVSU has grown quite a bit since then.  LMD has so much potential, every time I drive through the Standale section I always think how much nicer it would be if the buildings were at street level and not set so far back.

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3 hours ago, x99 said:

Is this proposal going to include dedicated bus lanes?  That's where the real problem with these systems comes in.  They actually reduce the carrying capacity of the roads upon which they are situated (at least they do the way we do them around here) by impeding the flow of traffic and eliminating available travel lanes.  If they aren't going to dedicate lanes, it may not be that big a deal.  If they are... it's just another boondoggle pretending to be "green" that really isn't.   

There will be dedicated lanes in the GVSU Allendale campus, and in downtown GR.  Not on M-45.

Edited by RegalTDP
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