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COMPLETE: The Old Public Safety Surface Lot


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the reason i am saying it does not is because the description posted by liam earlier said that the easter boundary of the west broadway neighborhood is knight st and bridgham st (to put it simply... the armory district). that means it is entirely contained within federal hill and the west end, but not bordering downtown.
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but see, that's the thing. You don't have to understand, and you don't have to agree, but to say that neighborhood groups should just stay in their own neighborhoods and not worry about what else is going on in the city is a little offensive. WBNA, Jewelry District, Concerned Citizens of Fox Point, etc have a right to be concerned about development that happens anywhere near them. You may not agree with their reasoning, you may not even agree with their borders, but it doesn't matter. Neighborhood groups are made up of residents, taxpayers, tenants and business-owners in Providence and if they collectively say that they want to weigh in on stuff, then who are you to say that their voice is somehow less valid, than, say, someone who lives in Elmhurst?

If WBNA or another neighborhood group was all in favor of more density downtown, and tall buildings, would you still say they should mind their own business and stay in their own neighborhoods?

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but see, that's the thing. You don't have to understand, and you don't have to agree, but to say that neighborhood groups should just stay in their own neighborhoods and not worry about what else is going on in the city is a little offensive. WBNA, Jewelry District, Concerned Citizens of Fox Point, etc have a right to be concerned about development that happens anywhere near them. You may not agree with their reasoning, you may not even agree with their borders, but it doesn't matter. Neighborhood groups are made up of residents, taxpayers, tenants and business-owners in Providence and if they collectively say that they want to weigh in on stuff, then who are you to say that their voice is somehow less valid, than, say, someone who lives in Elmhurst?

If WBNA or another neighborhood group was all in favor of more density downtown, and tall buildings, would you still say they should mind their own business and stay in their own neighborhoods?

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I have to say that I agree with both youse guys. Of course, downtown is and should be the concern of the neighborhood groups, as it should be the concern of the whole city (and considering the scale of RI, the concern of the whole state, if we're going to be really smart.)

WBNA's mission (from their website) is:

"WBNA --in partnership with other organizations, businesses, and officials seeking to improve the City of Providence-- works to:

* Provide neighbors with resources to solve community problems and opportunities to become a powerful voice in neighborhood planning and development

* Strengthen relationships among neighbors to build community and civic involvement

* Reflect the diversity of the West Side in the organization's leadership and membership

* Promote a strong sense of pride and place

* Maintain economic diversity in the neighborhood

* Create and maintain a safe and clean neighborhood

* Protect our parks, and return trees and green space to our neighborhoods

* Advocate for equitable municipal and state policies and services for the West Side

* Preserve the urban and historic fabric

* Guide new development to complement the existing built environment

* Develop renovation and infill projects for residential, commercial, and mixed-use properties that conform to the West Side Overlay District

* Nurture local businesses and sustainable mixed-use development on the West Side's main streets"

If there's a specific point about how the kind of density, height, style, whatever, in downtown is going to effect quality of life in the West Broadway neighborhood, then, by all means, it's their responsibility to speak up. But it's hard for me to make the stretch that the height of a specific building in Downtown will directly impact WBNA's territory. I'd totally change my view if they made a good argument for this.

This isn't to say that Ina, Kari or anyone else affiliated with the WBNA shouldn't speak out simply as Providence residents and taxpayers- But, as an organization, WBNA has a responsibility to act on specifically the things that pertain to their organizational mission. By concentrating on things that don't seem to impact the W. Broadway neighborhood directly, it seems like they're stretching their mission a bit.

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I'm forming the IDLIP-BHAO neighborhood association if anyone is interested in joining...

I Don't Live In Providence - But Have An Opinion ASSN

I plan on advocating as much development in Providence as possible because Providence borders the county I live in.

now, where the heck is my bullhorn and soapbox...

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Mental757- I think you're referring to my point at the top of the post about the whole state being concerned about Providence. Maybe folks from Foster shouldn't get all in a twist about, say, planters and signage regulations in downtown Prov, but the well-being of Providence, like any center of a metropolitain area, DOES have a direct impact on the rest of the state, just like a healthy down-town impacts the folks who live around downtown. Development in the city has a huge impact on the regional economy- development downtown certainly impacts neighborhoods. Looking at development from a regional perspective is generally considered good planning practice.

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I live in Providence, why shouldn't I care about this project even though I live a whole mile away?

I'm all for it but I resent people telling me what I should or shouldn't care about just because of where I live. I care about this city as a whole -- good, bad, East Side, West Side, Downtown, Olneyville, Valley, Mt. Pleasant, I don't care.

If that argument (that one shouldn't care about what happens outside your neighborhood) takes hold, this entire forum would have to shut down!

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I live in Providence, why shouldn't I care about this project even though I live a whole mile away?

I'm all for it but I resent people telling me what I should or shouldn't care about just because of where I live. I care about this city as a whole -- good, bad, East Side, West Side, Downtown, Olneyville, Valley, Mt. Pleasant, I don't care.

If that argument (that one shouldn't care about what happens outside your neighborhood) takes hold, this entire forum would have to shut down!

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The real problem with neighborhood groups is their socialist attitudes toward anything that they don't fully understand. A normal neighborhood association with good intentions serves the community and its residents. When they overstep those boundaries like the WBNA does with "encouraging development", there becomes a gray area that appears tranquil on the outside but substantially more volatile on the inside. The WBNA and other neighborhood groups should have NO voice in the economic development of this city in the future. If they stuck to their incongruos boundaries in the 1st place, then maybe you would see a viable retail district on Westminster by now....or North Main for that matter... Westminster is still a crapty half assed used auto lot/gas station after years of them scaring off anything that even dares to invest in the area. :sick::sick::sick:

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i never said that people who don't live in the neighborhood shouldn't weigh in or care or state their opinions. this is one city. we each have a voice. what i said was that an organization that advocates for a very specific area (such as WBNA or SNA or CHNA) shouldn't be used to speak for or against citywide issues. if members of those various groups want to join forces and form a citywide organization so be it. if individual members want to speak as residents of the city, go for it, please do. but don't speak as a member of the organization that represents people who may or may not agree with the consensus of the group when it comes to issues outside of that specific area.
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That's ludicrous. A group of people can advocate for whatever they want, just like individuals can. If the WBNA decides that this is something they should be concerned about, then so be it. It's not up to you.

Also, the original article said: "Some members of the public, particularly from the West Broadway Neighborhood Association, have expressed concern about the project

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dude, if they wanted to incorporate the facade, the new design would reflect that. they simply don't give a fig. Designers, and architects are pretty darn creative! The developer isn't interested in doing anything creative, he just wants to make money, which is why we need people to stand up and say "save the cod-damn facade!" or similar words to that effect.
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the back of the building can't be used at all because it's in the middle of the lot. the empire facade is entirely overhead doors, not really useful for the building they want. the fountain street side is half overhead doors, also not useable. that leaves the other half of the fountain street facade and the green street facade, which isn't all that attractive. why would they want to use that?

does anyone have pics of the new renders?

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I keep hearing about overhead doors and how they are not usable. The way I see it, if you remove overhead doors, you are left with a big open square. A blank canvas that lets you be creative. Why can this not be used? If you filled these spaces with glass and doors, that lets a lot of light into the lobby and is attractive on a streetscape level.

Personally I think the facade should be saved in some regard. I'd also like to see a big building be put here, so I am not against height. But since I live off of Broadway and am a member of the WBNA, perhaps I have no say on this. :whistling:

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