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Belk at Phipps?!?

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Posted

Since Charlotte-based Belk is in the process of buying Parisian's, what will they do with the Phipps Plaza location? The only decent Belk stores are in Charlotte, Greensboro and Raleigh (they call them "A" stores). Will the company do an "A" store at Phipps, or sell it off to some other retailer?

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Posted

I vote for "A" store. I think they'll give it a shot.

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Posted

I do like Belks. I think that Belks is fine for outlying Atlanta areas such as Cumming and Griffin, but not at Phipps Plaza! People in Atlanta would not shop at Belks just because they have an upscale location at Southpark Mall in Charlotte or at the Mall of Georgia.The upscale customers of Atlanta and particularly Buckhead will never really shop there. I don't think that they really shop at Nordstroms at Phipps, much less at Belks. They don't currently shop at Parisian. Quite frankly, they don't shop at Phipps at all except for Saks, Tiffanys and a couple of other stores there such as Bob Ellis Shoes. They do go to Lenox and the independent stoes around Buckhead. Keep in mind that many affluent clients in Buckhead don't like to shop at malls.

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Posted

Did they shop at Lord & Taylor? I view that chain as a New York version of Parisian.

Then who keeps all of those nice stores at Phipps in business- tourists from South Carolina, the land of mid-market malls?

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Posted

I would hope....no pray....no fast.....that Belk's not rebrand the Parisian at Phipps...or any other mall in metro Atlanta that has a Parisians as a Belk. Any chain that has to have A, B, and C stores are not worthy of Atlanta's premier shopping district. I don't care what anyone says....Belk's will always be viewed in my mind as a JCPenny. Sure there are nicer stores in smaller towns. As there would be since for years Belk's was the only player in the upscale market in those areas. Well Atlanta's shopping scene is a tad bit more mature than that. Surely this space can be filled with something a little more elegant than a slightly more upscale (A Store) Belks. Hello Barneys.....can you hear my plea?

Could you imagine someone's garage with a Bentley, a Rolls and a Ferrari and someone has the nerve to say "hey, it's okay for you to add a Camry....it's has all the options." Oh the shades of Phipps to be thus polluted. The last thing Atlanta's shopping market need is another "midmarket" chain that happens to have three or four A stores. Come to think of it, I have never ever heard of Saks, Neiman Marcus, Bloomingdales or Nordstrom haivng A, B or C stores. I have never seen a Neiman Marcus at some strip mall in some exurban part of Atlanta. I hope Simon is a little more creative and will talk Belk out of locating at Phipps.

Can you imagine how embarassing it will be for out of towners to say "What is Belk?" My answer will be "just another JCPenny." The Mall of Georgia was one thing. It's pretty much out the way and not over run with tourist. Phipps is a whole different creature. When people are in Atlanta they see this mall. It's across from one of our Ritz Carltons for heavens sake. I think there should be a campaign started. "Belks at Phipps....no thanks." All registered voters and or landowners of Fulton, Cobb, Fayette, DeKalb and Douglas should petition Simon to search for something greater than what ever mall in the south will have.

Clearly I am having fun with this but alot of my post in from the heart.

Belks at Phipps.........No Thanks!

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Posted

I totally agree, Lady Celeste. I'd sign your petition to keep Belk out of Phipps.

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Posted

[bear in mind when reading the following that I ain't mad at y'all (especially you, Lady Celeste, because I knew how you felt about Belk before we started this discourse), I'm just curious]

If Phipps (and Greater Buckhead) is supposed to preserved as some sort of dramatically upscale temple not fit for the plebeian presence of Belk, then who the hell was shopping at the supposedly superior Lord & Taylor and Parisian?

Obviously not enough people because one is gone and the other is good as gone.

Why then would it be such a travesty that the only decent Southern department store nameplate left (other than Dillard

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Posted

[bear in mind when reading the following that I ain't mad at y'all (especially you, Lady Celeste, because I knew how you felt about Belk before we started this discourse), I'm just curious]

If Phipps (and Greater Buckhead) is supposed to preserved as some sort of dramatically upscale temple not fit for the plebeian presence of Belk, then who the hell was shopping at the supposedly superior Lord & Taylor and Parisian?

Obviously not enough people because one is gone and the other is good as gone.

Why then would it be such a travesty that the only decent Southern department store nameplate left (other than Dillard

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Posted

Parisian's name recognition is definitely one good reason to keep the chain alive as a Belk subsidiary.

Re: which department store chains are "mid-market" and which are "upscale"- from growing up with Belk stores and then spending tons of time at Parisian and Lord & Taylor as well, in my view the most upscale Belk, at SouthPark in Charlotte, sells products that can be very high-end, such as Burberry and Zegna suits, in line with or perhaps even better than the best Parisian or Lord & Taylor. But Parisian and Lord & Taylor sell nothing but at least decent clothes (e.g., Tommy Hilfiger), plus plenty of very good brands (e.g., Joseph Abboud and Tailor Byrd, and I've seen Ferragamo shoes at the L&T on Fifth Avenue). They don't sell junk. Conversely, Belk sells low-end clothes among mid-market and high-end brands, even at its SouthPark store; there is a Levi's display there near the west-side mall entrance, despite Ferragamo shoes being not far away. Belk's broad range of merchandising in my view is an obstacle to the chain being truly upscale. So if I'm in a mall with a Belk and a Parisian, I'll go straight to Parisian, since I know I won't have to waste my scarce mall time looking through any $9.99 track suits to find good clothes.

Nordstrom does have A stores and B stores; I'd say that the one in Durham is a B store, with less high-end merchandise than the Charlotte one or the Seattle flagship. But all Nordstroms I've seen have at least Burberry shirts and the like- enough to keep all of the stores upscale enough. No Belk- style $9.99 track suits a few feet away from the Burberry section.

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Posted

A little real estate 101: there is a rental agreement between Simon and their repective tenants.the greement can be modified per either party but the power rets,primarily with the landlord,Simon. When Parisians leaves and they are, simon will replace them with a tenant that will reflect the market strategy ofthe Mall even if it means buying out the balance of the Saks/Parsian lease.

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Posted

A little real estate 101: there is a rental agreement between Simon and their repective tenants. the agreement can be modified per either party but the power rets,primarily with the landlord,Simon. When Parisians leaves and they are, simon will replace them with a tenant that will reflect the market strategy ofthe Mall even if it means buying out the balance of the Saks/Parsian lease.

Okay......I almost want to cry. I really really really hope what you say is true because then Simon is not going to muddy the water they have worked so hard to filter.

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Posted

Okay......I almost want to cry. I really really really hope what you say is true because then Simon is not going to muddy the water they have worked so hard to filter.

I would be extrememly shocked to see anything other than a very up-scale store (or stores) there...

The other tenants would certainly be up in arms if Simon approved any concept which would change the overall perception of the mall---- and why on earth would they?... they certainly enjoy the high rents that they get at Phipps and would do nothing to damage that franchise...

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Lady Celeste Belk is already in the Atlanta market. They have stores in metro suburban and exurban area strip malls.

It's understandable that Belk has nicer stores in their home city and that fine. But when they primarily occupy space alongside Kroger's and Winn Dixie's in this market, I just don't think it'll fly at Phipps.

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Posted

I would be extrememly shocked to see anything other than a very up-scale store (or stores) there...

The other tenants would certainly be up in arms if Simon approved any concept which would change the overall perception of the mall---- and why on earth would they?... they certainly enjoy the high rents that they get at Phipps and would do nothing to damage that franchise...

Exactly. try this on for size: Barney's and a multi level Ralph Lauren with a Rugby-RL's latest concept- in the space currently occupied by Parisians. Or a Zara-think H&M with a latin twist. At any rate ,Simon must compete with not only the image of Phipps but the retail offerings slated for Terminus as well as the Midtown retail resurgence.It is a race to see who gets there the firstest with the mostest.

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Posted

Lady Celeste Belk is already in the Atlanta market. They have stores in metro suburban and exurban area strip malls.

It's understandable that Belk has nicer stores in their home city and that fine. But when they primarily occupy space alongside Kroger's and Winn Dixie's in this market, I just don't think it'll fly at Phipps.

I've never seen a strip mall Belk's in metro atl. where are they?

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Posted

I've never seen a strip mall Belk's in metro atl. where are they?

Martinman didn't read my post carefully. I had already stated that there were Belks in the Atlanta metro market. They have some suburban and mostly exurban stores.

There's one in Canton, Cumming, Carrollton, Cartersville, Conyers, Gainesville, Marietta way out on Dallas Hwy, McDonough, Newnan, Norcross (I must have missed this, I have never seen this Belk), Snellville and as I mentioned earlier, Fayetteville Pavillion. Every last one is in a strip mall or lifestyle center. Not exactly what I would think befitting Phipps. The only mall one we have now is at the Mall of Georgia. There is one anchoring the mall in Athens.

Oddly enough, have any of you metro Atlantans ever seen a Belk advertisement?

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Posted

From the Belk website.

CANTON

BELK

1447 RIVERSTONE PARKWAY

CANTON

GA 30114

Store Location Number: 0033

Store Phone Number: (770)720-1125

Store Hours: M-S 10:00 - 9:00 SUN 1:30 - 6:00 (EST)

CARROLLTON

BELK

1109 SOUTH PARK- SUITE #300

CARROLLTON

GA 30117

Store Location Number: 0044

Store Phone Number: (770)832-1421

Store Hours: M-S 10:00 - 9:00 SUN 1:00 - 6:00 (EST)

CARTERSVILLE

BELK

600 CHEROKEE PLACE

CARTERSVILLE

GA 30120

Store Location Number: 0039

Store Phone Number: (770)382-3770

Store Hours: M-S 10:00 - 9:00 SUN 1:00 - 6:00 (EST)

CONYERS

BELK

1454 DOGWOOD DRIVE

CONYERS

GA 30013

Store Location Number: 0331

Store Phone Number: (678)413-3511

Store Hours: M-S 10:00 - 9:00 SUN 12:00 - 6:00

CUMMING

BELK

520 LAKELAND PLAZA

CUMMING

GA 30040

Store Location Number: 0337

Store Phone Number: (770)889-5998

Store Hours: M-S 10:00 - 9:00 SUN 1:00 - 5:30 (EST)

FAYETTEVILLE

BELK

200 PAVILION PARKWAY

FAYETTEVILLE

GA 30214

Store Location Number: 0196

Store Phone Number: (770)460-8550

Store Hours: M-S 10:00 - 9:00 SUN 1:00 - 6:00 (EST)

GAINESVILLE

BELK

150 PEARL NIX PARKWAY

GAINESVILLE

GA 30501

Store Location Number: 0087

Store Phone Number: (770)532-7021

Store Hours: M-S 10:00 - 9:00 SUN 1:00 - 6:00 (EST)

GRIFFIN

BELK

1645 NORTH EXPRESSWAY

GRIFFIN

GA 30223

Store Location Number: 0495

Store Phone Number: (770)228-6660

Store Hours: M-S 10:00 - 9:00 SUN 1:00 - 6:00 (EST)

LAWRENCEVILLE

CLOSED

*************

LAWRENCEVILLE

GA 30043

Store Location Number: 0576

Store Phone Number: (770)963-0201

Store Hours: M-S 10:00 - 9:00 SUN 1:00 - 6:00 (EST)

MARIETTA

BELK

3636 DALLAS HWY SW, SUITE 100

MARIETTA

GA 30064

Store Location Number: 0334

Store Phone Number: (770)590-9665

Store Hours: M-S 10:00 - 9:00 SUN 1:00 - 5:30 (EST)

MCDONOUGH

BELK

1800 JONESBORO ROAD

MCDONOUGH

GA 30253

Store Location Number: 0262

Store Phone Number: (678)583-1996

Store Hours: M-S 10:00 - 9:00 SUN 11:00 - 6:00

NEWNAN

BELK

997 BULLSBORO DRIVE

NEWNAN

GA 30263

Store Location Number: 0210

Store Phone Number: (770)253-6770

Store Hours: M-S 10:00 - 9:00 SUN 12:30 - 5:30 (EST)

NORCROSS

BELK

5165 PEACHTREE PKWY

NORCROSS

GA 30092

Store Location Number: 0270

Store Phone Number: (678)291-9980

Store Hours: M-S 10:00 - 8:00 SUN 1:00 - 6:00

SNELLVILLE

BELK

2059 SCENIC HWY, SUITE 110

SNELLVILLE

GA 30078

Store Location Number: 0184

Store Phone Number: (678)344-8484

Store Hours: M-S 10:00 - 9:00 SUN 1:00 - 6:00 (EST)

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Posted

Oddly enough, have any of you metro Atlantans ever seen a Belk advertisement?

Celeste, I have not.

There used to be a cool Belk's in downtown Decatur, and one in the old Buckhead Village (way back when). There was also a nice Belk's at Suburban Plaza off of Scott Boulevard. I honestly always thought of them as fairly upscale, at least as compared to Sears.

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Posted

God forbid tha Phipps gets "downscaled", but Lady Celeste, you have to be crazy to prefer Dillard's to Belk. Dillard's is horrific (both in merchandising and customer service).

As to Simon and real estate, most anchors own and build their stores. Simon would have to buy the Phipps Parisian from Belk. And lets see, they certainly didn't buy the former Galyan's from Dicks at SouthPark.

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God forbid tha Phipps gets "downscaled", but Lady Celeste, you have to be crazy to prefer Dillard's to Belk. Dillard's is horrific (both in merchandising and customer service).

As to Simon and real estate, most anchors own and build their stores. Simon would have to buy the Phipps Parisian from Belk. And lets see, they certainly didn't buy the former Galyan's from Dicks at SouthPark.

Yes, may He forbid that happening.

To be honest, I can't tell you if I have ever been in a Dillards or not. If I did, I don't remember the experience. Either way, if I have to choose....and thank heavens I don't......between the two, I would say Dillards because of it's recognition. I am only speaking of the Atlanta market. Dillards has more recognition than Belk. Also at hand is the fact that I have not seen Dillards in far flung exurbs. Again, I'm not saying that Belk is a bad store. For those who shop there, happy shopping. Just like Walmart...and I don't shop there but most of America does...Belk serves a purpose. I just don't feel it should be at Phipps.

From what I'm understanding from Simon is that they wholly own Phipps Plaza and leases the space to anchors. If this is the case then Micropundit is correct and Simon could give a thumbs up or down to Belk Phipps Plaza.

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I'd rather have a Dillard's at Phipps than Belk; at the typical A-class mall, except SouthPark, Belk and Dillard's sell the same types and scales of merchandise, but Dillard's doesn't have C grade stores in C grade shopping centers in smaller towns as Belk does.

If there was a mortgage on Phipps Plaza at any point in the last decade, and I'd imagine there was, it was probably securitized in a public securities offering, and the offering documents- with a trove of financial information for Phipps (such as anchor status- owned/leased, sales per square foot, lease expirations, etc.)- would be available at sec.gov.

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Belk vs. Dillard's. Two sides of the same coin.

Mallguy, if you think Dillard's doesn't have C-grade stores in C-grade shopping centers in C-grade towns, you're dreaming. Every store does. Most stores these days are pretty consistent but the smaller, poorer towns and stores tend to get short shrift.

I have to take issue with the C-grade clientele comment. On a very basic level, consumers are all the same, and the money they use spends the same, so they deserve respect despite whether you or I like their buying choices. Just because a person can only afford a $9.99 tracksuit (or chooses to buy it) doesn't make him or her a C-grade customer.

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Posted

Sorry- no offense intended. I deleted that language. (My father buys ratty clothes at some pretty ratty stores so I'd consider him, a family member, as C-grade clientele from a department store's perspective, so I didn't mean that to be insulting.)

I'd be curious as to where Dillard's has C-grade stores. Belk has some less-modern small stores selling inexpensive clothes in Wal-Mart anchored shopping centers and other strip malls, and even in some downtown locations, around the Southeast. Those stores have almost nothing in common with the chain's A-grade stores at SouthPark and Crabtree Valley and the like.

The worst Dillard's I can think of is the clearance center at Eastland, with the downstairs sealed off and big wooden barriers blocking off the escalator, but apart from that the store is in good physical shape; Dillard's stores almost across the board seem to have been updated in the mid-'90s at the earliest and are typical mall-size stores with similar ranges of merchandise; the Northlake (Charlotte) one seems almost the same as the Stony Point Fashion Park one, which in turn is about the same as the Haywood Mall, Eastridge Mall and Scottsdale Fashion Square ones.

From what I've seen, Belk thus has a tremendous range of store size, quality and location that really eliminates the chain from ever being considered upper-end; Dillard's seems to be much more consistent. StevenRocks, you definitely know your stuff, so if there are any run-down Dillard's stores in dying strip malls or C-grade malls selling nothing but $9.99 track suits and the like, I'm curious.

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Posted

Most of the worst Dillard's stores are located either in small towns or in dying malls in the Mid-South and Midwest, and let me tell you, they're nothing to write home about. They tend to have really dated decor and a limited selection of merchandise. Most oif them were picked up when Dillard's bought other chains.

str0420.jpg

str0393.jpg

str0604.jpg

A bunch of them have closed down over the past several years as Dillard's has cleaned up its real-estate portfolio, but the ones that are left are pretty sad.

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Posted

That middle picture especially looks bad! I see where you're coming from.

Still, no Dillard's in Wal-Mart-anchored strip centers, at least- so if Dillard's is bad, Belk's is still slightly worse, in terms of its lowest stores. And Dillard's is closing its bad stores, even slowly, while Belk still opens them in strip centers.

Some fun facts on Parisian/Phipps/etc.:

1. I'd guess that the above post is right about the anchors owning their stores; L&T did:

http://retailtrafficmag.com/mag/retail_phi...lips/index.html

2. Description of Saks' business, including Parisian, is in the SKS 10-K:

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/812...076884/d10k.htm

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