Charlotte Pride

[voyager12]

I think its a sad commentary on some in Charlotte's gay community that Pride has struggled so much in the past . I have only attended two so far and enjoyed myself both times. Yes, Charlotte is a conservative town but that should not be an excuse. We are the largest metro in the Carolinas and should have the signature gay pride event for NC&SC. Some of us get involved in fighting for our rights politically and supporting community events and make progress but we are not a big group and need more help. The Community Center has events all the time that draw miniscule attendance. Its sad. No wonder the center is constantly on the brink of losing its lease and closing down, it gets minimal support. I think there is too much resigned apathy in Charlotte's gay community a "nothing will ever change so who cares, lets just party every weekend" attitude that is markedly different from the activism in Asheville and The Triangle. I don't know how to change it either.

[monsoon]

I think its a sad commentary on some in Charlotte's gay community that Pride has struggled so much in the past . I have only attended two so far and enjoyed myself both times. Yes, Charlotte is a conservative town but that should not be an excuse. ....

I don't really think of Charlotte as a liberal or conservative place mainly because the vast majority of people that live here are not from here and because of that there is not really a community that sets social morals for people. Also, society in general has gotten much more conservative. When I moved here in 1978, the back cover of the Southern Bell phonebook was an advert for a XXX peep show. Imagine something like that today. I do think a lot of Gays in this area are uncomfortable with showing pride so if there is conservatism that is where it lies. It's fascinating to see the people at say something like the white party, compared to those that you would see at a Pride celebration or involved with the Community Center.

Second the need for pride celebrations in the USA is on the wane because Gays & Lesbians in this country are no longer focused on Gay and Lesbian rights for the most part. The very active Gay rights movement of the 70s, that spurred the pride celebrations in the first place, pretty much disappeared with the arrival of AIDs in the mid 80s and the refocus of the community towards that disease. And it didn't help the vast majority of Gay leaders in those days, who remember being locked up by the police simply for dancing with other men, were killed by the disease. Also Gays have been slapped down in this country for bringing up something like equal rights for marriage and I think that has thrown a lot of water on the movement in general.

And in Charlotte, there was competition from the state at large. For years, there was a larger NC Gay Pride celebration in the 80s (and possibly 70s too) that would move from city to city each year. Many people from Charlotte would be involved with that event and that really kept it from organizing in the city. This was another reason there really wasn't one in Charlotte until recently.

Finally I think the biggest reason that you don't see more in the way of Gay pride celebrations in Charlotte is the lack of a Gay ghetto where people could go and shop Gay identified businesses, restaurants, etc. This is a bigger issue for Charlotte because overpriced property and gentrification makes it difficult to establish a community such as this, so people end up being dispersed all over the county.

[Charlotte_native]

Would the Square be totally out of the question as the location of Charlotte Pride?

Close the approaches to the Square, and have a big block party type event right in the intersection of Trade/Tryon.

oh by the way, perhaps Charlotte gays should drive to Concord and picket that wierdo gay-hating group on their own turf.

We joked about your last point- drive to Concord, set up on public space across the street, hand out leaflets espousing our beliefs. I bet it would take about 10 minutes to be illegally arrested on some bullshirt charges. Though fun to think about, letting them look like the freaks is much better. Bitterness isn't a good characteristic for anyone.

As for having it on at or on the Square, my point earlier about letting this grow and become non-controversial and let more of us become a part of the event might make that possible. I doubt it now, they actually thought about not issuing a permit one year for Marshal Park since some, um, religious folks requested it not be issued, I can only imagine if we wanted it right downtown. But I do think it would be possible one year soon. Get a good track record then request it. It would also suck to have it there and have it minimally supported.

I think its a sad commentary on some in Charlotte's gay community that Pride has struggled so much in the past . I have only attended two so far and enjoyed myself both times. Yes, Charlotte is a conservative town but that should not be an excuse. We are the largest metro in the Carolinas and should have the signature gay pride event for NC&SC. Some of us get involved in fighting for our rights politically and supporting community events and make progress but we are not a big group and need more help. The Community Center has events all the time that draw miniscule attendance. Its sad. No wonder the center is constantly on the brink of losing its lease and closing down, it gets minimal support. I think there is too much resigned apathy in Charlotte's gay community a "nothing will ever change so who cares, lets just party every weekend" attitude that is markedly different from the activism in Asheville and The Triangle. I don't know how to change it either.

I hope i don't offend anyone, but those events just don't look very appealing. They aren't well put together and sort of remind me of a high school event. Pride in the past has not been great either. I really think that this years event could be a change in the tide though. I've heard great stuff about it, I enjoyed it, and I think it has a chance to grow now. As for "who cares, lets just party..." <-- I work with HRC, Equality North Carolina, and don't party unless wine at a friends house counts. Lots of us do stuff, it just isn't "out there" like a big Pride event.

[Charlotte_native]

Finally I think the biggest reason that you don't see more in the way of Gay pride celebrations in Charlotte is the lack of a Gay ghetto where people could go and shop Gay identified businesses, restaurants, etc. This is a bigger issue for Charlotte because overpriced property and gentrification makes it difficult to establish a community such as this, so people end up being dispersed all over the county.

Just posing the question, because I have discussed this with friends in other cities with Gay Ghettos, but is it possible that we don't have a concentration of gays in any one area because we are progressive enough to not segregate ourselves? I don't mean to imply that I "think" this, but have thought about it. I've been asked a lot by visiting friends where the gay part of town is, and my answer is usually "everywhere" and mostly close to center city. Maybe many of us don't feel the need to choose where we live based on sexual orientation. I don't though I almost moved to Toronto the first time I visited Church Street and saw 10 blocks of bars, restaurants, high-rises where most balconies had rainbow flags, etc. I don't feel the need to surround myself with only other gays and my core group of friends is really very balanced, and not intentionally, it just is. I also have friends that live all over, including the 'burbs, and none feel uncomfortable where they live and they are all "out".

Did gay ghettos begin out of the need to be in a concentrated area to feel more safe?

I do wish we had a central area with shops and restaurants though -- I just don't feel we HAVE to have one.

[monsoon]

Did gay ghettos begin out of the need to be in a concentrated area to feel more safe?

I do wish we had a central area with shops and restaurants though -- I just don't feel we HAVE to have one.

Indeed they did. Gays and Lesbians of the very early 70s, and earlier had to congregate in places that were out of sight of mainstream America lest they get arrested and/or beat up by the police. Usually this meant that bars were in the bad portion of town and Gays would move to the bad parts of cities and begin gentrifying them. Castro is a classic example of this. The neighborhood had been abandoned by the late 50s so Gays & Lesbians, who were brave enough to live in the open, moved to this neighborhood. Word got out and people moved there from all over the country and hence it became a ghetto. Several other cities got this reputation which is why some cities have the ghettos and others don't.

I really don't think Charlotte ever had a Gay ghetto as the community was fairly closeted until the 80s. There were several areas in Dilworth, most notibly Kirkland (near Bilo), Tremont, and Ideal way where there were a lot of Gays. There was also the Friends of Dorothy Bookstore (non XXX) which was also a meeting place which was in Dilworth, and Josh's restaurant on East Blvd was fairly Gay. Keep in mind that Dilworth of the 70s does not resemble anything like it does today. It was full of abandoned and rundown houses and for the most part, people avoided much of it. All of that is gone now as gentrification in Dilworth has greatly changed that area. As an interesting side note, , the Gay & Lesbian switchboard was once actually located at the Park Rd. Baptist church.

[Charlotte_native]

Indeed they did. Gays and Lesbians of the very early 70s, and earlier had to congregate in places that were out of sight of mainstream America lest they get arrested and/or beat up by the police. Usually this meant that bars were in the bad portion of town and Gays would move to the bad parts of cities and begin gentrifying them. Castro is a classic example of this. The neighborhood had been abandoned by the late 50s so Gays & Lesbians, who were brave enough to live in the open, moved to this neighborhood. Word got out and people moved there from all over the country and hence it became a ghetto. Several other cities got this reputation which is why some cities have the ghettos and others don't.

I really don't think Charlotte ever had a Gay ghetto as the community was fairly closeted until the 80s. There were several areas in Dilworth, most notibly Kirkland (near Bilo), Tremont, and Ideal way where there were a lot of Gays. There was also the Friends of Dorothy Bookstore (non XXX) which was also a meeting place which was in Dilworth, and Josh's restaurant on East Blvd was fairly Gay. In those days, the Gay & Lesbian switchboard was actually located at the Park Rd. Baptist church. All of that is gone now as gentrification in Dilworth has greatly changed that area.

Hearing from those that lived through all of this is something that the yung-uns need to hear. I don't think they realize how good they have it. I honetly never knew you could be arrested ONLY for dancing with another man or beaten for it until I read the book about the Stonewall Riots. Thanks for your insight.

Another question, since we are on the topic and I've never known where it originated, what exactly does "friends of Dorothy" mean? Aren't there other somewhat "code" words that were used in the past?

[monsoon]

^It's in reference to Judy Garland and her performance in the Wizard of Oz as Dorothy. Gays and Lesbians of the closeted eras of the USA identified with Judy because they, too, were the objects of demeaning jokes and casual contempt, and they derived comfort and inspiration from her ability to survive similar assaults. She became a Gay icon as a result and her singing of "Somewhere over the Rainbow" is why that flag is one of the symbols of the movement. In the 50s and 60s, Gay men would say they are a friend of Dorothy to identify themselves as such.

I recommend a read of "And the Band Played On" if you want a good history of the modern Gay movement and also "Conduct Unbecoming" by the same author which covers the persecution of Gays in the United States Military.

[voyager12]

That was all very interesting and new information to me, Metro. Thanks. If Pride does turn the corner after this year and gains support hopefully it will rub off on other worthy events. I have attended the last two Carolina Celebrations in Gateway and the turnout was pitiful. From what I hear Celebration used to be very popular and it just lost steam for some reason. I also went to the "Guess Who's Coming to Dinner" dessert finale party this year after attending a house dinner and the crowd was also small. Apparently almost half of those who signed up did not bother to throw the house parties they had pledged to host. The White Party is still going strong, I suppose this is because its billed as being "exclusive". You have to be on one of the hosts "lists" to get in I guess thats one way to get gay guys to go to a fundraising party: make them feel superior and better than the guys who did not get invited. It will be interesting to see how Gay Bingo's replacement , The Queen City Cotillion does. The most reliably attended gay events in this town are Takeover Fridays. The one at the Westin during Pride weekend was packed.

[Charlotteman]

I grew up in Carolina, and moved to Jacksonville, Florida when I was 24.

Right away I was delighted by the city having 2, maybe 3 gay ghettos. I hadn't experienced it before, and didn't expect it in such a conservative city as Jax.

It wasn't a glitzy gay scene or anything, but the three neighborhoods were literally full of gays. It was most pleasant. Gays lead the way for the city's restoration movements.

There was a true spirit of community. Gay ghettos can be really cool:)

[voyager12]

Charlotte may not have a predominantly gay ghetto but the most popular and historic neighborhoods in the city are gay friendly and have gay owned businesses. Dilworth may not be the alternative hub it once was, but gaywise we have Paper Skyscraper, 300 East and the Sloan stores. Caribou is the gayest coffee house in town. I am probably missing a few others around here. Plus several in PlazaMidwood and Elizabeth. I am totally out. My car is a gay pride parade all by itself and I have always felt welcome. As has been stated before these intown neighborhoods are not indicative of most of Charlotte. But I think that lacking a "gay ghetto" our town does pretty well considering the conservative culture dominating in the region.

[voyager12]

There was a small but interesting article in this week's CL regarding The Charlotte YMCA's rules change that now allows same-sex couples to register. Before it was limited to married couples. Although several members of Charlotte's gay community have been lobbying for this change, the gym spokesperson said the resulting impact on gays was not the intention and was inadvertent. A gay couple that was turned away before this rules revision went into effect were welcomed at the The Jewish Community Center and are staying there. The YMCA claims the focus was only on single parent families and those in similar situations. Its a shame, politically they can't say they did this on the basis of it being the fair and decent stance to take. Too many people wrongly think that gays having equal rights is unchristian.

[dubone]

I can't imagine what the YMCA would be like with gay people there!

Perhaps their policy was against normal gays, as they are trying to keep their standard of large numbers of creepy geriatric gay men with staring disorders.

[Miesian Corners]

I can't imagine what the YMCA would be like with gay people there!

Perhaps their policy was against normal gays, as they are trying to keep their standard of large numbers of creepy geriatric gay men with staring disorders.

And don't forget so many of these creepy gay men have wives and children at home.

[voyager12]

The Dowd has a cruisy reputation? No way Well, I have heard some pretty wild stories but they have cracked down over the last few years. I always behave myself when I go, as do most guys. Although someone did follow me home from the parking lot to my apt. I guess he expected me to just hop in his car. Have the skanky activities of a few hurt our overall image? Somewhat. Of course half of the wandering eyes in the locker room are married which makes it even more pathetic.

[Charlotteman]

This is funny about the Y:)

I haven't worked out in years (a wrecked back) but when I was a gym-rat, the gawking was the other way around! Everytime I looked up while on a machine, a gal was trying to look up my shorts!!!

[voyager12]

Since this thread has nicely evolved into an updated summary of gaycentric issues in Charlotte I wanted to add that I attended a grassroots strategy meeting for the Nov elections last night. The meeting took place at The GLBT Center and was sponsored by Meckpac,ENC,and HRC. Regardless of political persuasion, please vote but if you are gay supportive or progressive and reside in Mecklenburg coming out to vote and rallying others is crucial this time around. The most important race being for county commission. All three Comissioners that are gay supportive are up for reelection and are At Large : Helms, Roberts, and Parks. Commissioners Wihelmina Rembert and Jennifer Roberts spoke last night. The Republicans that are currently in the minority have already stated that one of their first actions if they regain control will be the repealing of the anti-discrimination sexual orientation clause and then the door will be slammed shut against any further equal progress in Mecklenburg. It would be a shame to regress to the bad old days after coming so far. So please get a yard sign,bumper sticker, canvass, or volunteer for a phone bank. With organized community support we can keep control and continue efforts to make our community welcoming to everyone.

Edited September 14, 2006 by voyager12

[voyager12]

There were undercover stings targeting men cruising Freedom Park and The Dowd this week. It's inexcusable conduct that goes on in broad daylight in both places where kids are around. It's not anymore representative of the gay community at large than horny and skanky straight guys but that is not how its perceived by the public. We are all grouped together by the media. The common impression being that all those gays are sex obsessed and troll in parks. It was the lead story on the two local channels I flipped between last night. One reporter interviewed a female member of The Dowd to find out if she felt "safe". Priceless. A story about gay men hooking up and they interview a woman. I think she is safe These idiots that got arrested make the whole gay community in Charlotte look bad. And they are probably closet cases who feel like they have no other place to go which is even more sad.

[voyager12]

I would like to once again urge fair minded Mecklenburg County residents to please vote for Democratic incumbents Roberts,Rembert,and Helms on Nov 7. Republican candidate Dan Ramirez is already running ads blasting Parks Helms for favoring gay marriage. Whether Parks does or not favor it is immaterial to his powers as County Chair. It's simply a scare tactic, but very illustrative of the virulenty anti-gay tone that will come into power if Republicans regain the majority. They have stated that one of their first priorities would be repealing the landmark Mecklenburg Cty employees sexual orientation non-discrimination clause. This action would be an insulting and demoralizing slap in the face to Charlotte's gay community and would only be the beginning of years of anti-gay abuse from the our county commission. So please help us prevent it and vote!

Edited October 17, 2006 by voyager12

[cinco]

I would like to once again urge fair minded Mecklenburg County residents to please vote for Democratic incumbents Roberts,Rembert,and Helms on Nov 7. Republican candidate Dan Ramirez is already running ads blasting Parks Helms for favoring gay marriage. Whether Parks does or not favor it is immaterial to his powers as County Chair. It's simply a scare tactic, but very illustrative of the virulenty anti-gay tone that will come into power if Republicans regain the majority. They have stated that one of their first priorities would be repealing the landmark Mecklenburg Cty employees sexual orientation non-discrimination clause. This action would be an insulting and demoralizing slap in the face to Charlotte's gay community and would only be the beginning of years of anti-gay abuse from the our county commission. So please help us prevent it and vote!

as well, on the ballot will be judicial elections... which effect this topic greatly. for some reason www.ncjudges2006.org would not display for me... but there is a pamphlet you get in the mail or from your local library that has judicial info. while judges do not come out and declare which party they allign with, if you read the statements they give you can usually decipher their veiws. if you support gay issues - i would stay away from judges that say "endorsed by senators dole and burr"... also, watch for 2nd amendment holy grailers.

[voyager12]

I received a non-partisan judicial voter guide in the mail Cinco. I think its important to democracy overall to vote regardless of party. Of course I am biased There may not be many things I admire about Republicans but one of them is their ability to get out the vote and close the deal, even when they are seemingly behind. I am not buying into the " democratic wave" theory floating around the national media. At best we have a good chance of winning the House back and coming close to getting the Senate. Today. That could change tomorrow. On the local level there does not seem to be a large amount of energy from local democrats. I see many more Republican candidate commission signs than Democrat, even in local democratic stronghold neighborhoods. The conservative get out the vote machine is simply more dedicated than our side. It does not help that Republicans are overall more affluent and have access to more cars than Democrats. We will hopefully have a very nice day on the 7th or that could hurt us too. People that are not hardcore Democrats are not going to stand in the rain for a bus to go vote.While the majority of Republicans barrel through in Suburbans Hyper-involved obsessive activists like myself know we don't reflect the average voter. It would just be nice to have more mainstream community involvement at the rallies and protests I go to. I hope it does not take a local Republican sweep to wake people for the next round because too much damage will have already been done by then.

[uptownliving]

Yeah the Meck County Commision vote will be an easy choice for me this year. The only republican out of the 3 running that I would even consider voting for is Jim Puckett...but he has made some poor decisions in my opinion by opposing adding sexual orientation to the county's non-discrimination clause (even though he works in the formal fashionwear business), and voting against the Wachovia project because he thought it would be a net tax loss even though the data shows otherwise, and also his efforts to repeal the transit tax. The other 2 Republicans running I know personally. One is the godfather of my best friend...and even he is not voting for him (Mr Ramierez) and the other is an old highschool friend's mother (Mrs McGary) who is very controlling and tends to have uncalled for outbursts and episodes.

Edited October 18, 2006 by uptownliving

[voyager12]

Thanks for the inside scoop Uptownliving !! Another UP Exclusive Although I must say hearing more detailed information about them makes me even more nervous thinking about what may occur if they prevail next month...

[voyager12]

The Charlotte Business Guild along with Meckpac hosted a candidates discussion forum at The Vanlandingham House on The Plaza on Tuesday. It was very informative and worthwhile. Rep Mel Watt unexpectedly showed up and spoke. Don't forget the option of early voting at your local library! Please be a smart donkey and vote

[davidclt]

The Charlotte Business Guild along with Meckpac hosted a candidates discussion. . .

Rep Mel Watt unexpectedly showed up and spoke.

Who else besides Mel was there? Any other surprises or did they only host supportive candidates?

I figure a visit from Sue "I too busy to debate my opponent so I won't" Myrick or any of the Republican candidates for CC would be, um, entertaining to say the least.

[voyager12]

Unfortunately it was scheduled on the evening of the county commission meeting so Roberts, Rembert, and Helms could not come, they were all at work at the gvt center. The Guild and Meckpac are non-partisan and we invite Republicans but they ignore us and think we are satan's spawn. We don't take it personally :lol:Rep. Watt's talk was informal but uplifting, we heard from Paula Mcswain who has an uphill fight against conservative Ruth Samuelson and and representative from Bill Glass's campaign showed up near the end. It would be wonderful to knock off Myrick but the realist in me says no way.... I am getting more confident of a Democratic takeover of the House, but the local county race has me all tied up in knots I am going to have to take a lot of valium Nov 7th as the results roll in