Traffic Congestion and Highway Construction

[southslider]

^If the private company doesn't meet a minimum level of revenues, your tax dollars continue to subsidize them. But in a world awash with chrony capitalism, why should this version of corporate welfare be any different?

[Third Strike]

So if the toll company bankrupts, the state gets the lanes back? Not to sound pessimistic, but this seems really realistic in a fifty year window. I've also heard that toll roads (handled by the state) have to remove their tolls after their bonds are paid off. I think this is the case in several states, but many of them continue with their tolls anyway. Although, if that's the case, I really don't see any problem with using that method with the construction of new roads. That could speed up the Shelby bypass, and the same could be done to US 74 between Wingate and Rockingham.

[dcharlotte]

The toll company gets a guaranteed minimum revenue so short of horrible management of the overall company, these will be here to stay for generations to come.

I'm a huge supporter of managed lanes and tolls on interstates within cities, but I'm not a fan of having a private company build them. I would rather NC float the bonds for this project and have them repaid with toll revenue and the overage go to support mass transit operations within the corridor to provide alternatives to those who cannot afford the tolls or waiting in congestion in the free lanes (be it buses, trains, etc.).

[dubone]

^If the private company doesn't meet a minimum level of revenues, your tax dollars continue to subsidize them. But in a world awash with chrony capitalism, why should this version of corporate welfare be any different?

Subsidize to the point of paying for the cost of the road.  Maximizing revenue would be to keep the price low enough to move a maximum number of cars to the equilibrium of the actual capacity of the road going at a minimum speed, which then moves more vehicles and people from point A to point B which is the whole point.    

 

[southslider]

^You just explained congestion pricing.  That's still no excuse to subsidize a private firm. If truly market-based, raise the tolls enough to not require public subsidy. Or if tolls can't regularly cover the cost, but still provide a public benefit by managing congestion, then don't privatize the public asset.

Edited September 1, 2015 by southslider

[Skyybutter]

What a big friggin mess. Im most surprised at how quickly it will all happen. I have never lived up that way and the God I don't. Cabarrus county schools are awesome and granted we might not have a lake in Cabarrus but we have a big mall and that stupid racetrack. HAHA

I don't know guys, it's going to be interesting to see how this pans out. I do know that I've sat on 85 in Atlanta going into the city at rush hour and very,very ,very few people seem to choose the toll lane there. I'm not sure why because if I remember correctly it was very cheap. 

 

and btw...DO NOT hope for those stupid lights on the acceleration lanes as your getting on the interstate. When I first saw those I was like "you have got to be kidding." I mean I get it. I think of all the traffic that floods onto 85 south at the Sugar Creek exit when the light changes. I bet upwards of 30-50 cars get through the green turn light and then try and merge onto 85. All you see is red lights.

I'm still for street cars. Flood the city with them and get those LKN commuters into city living. haha

[Skyybutter]

My apologies if this has been discussed, but DOT is working like MAD on 85 North of where it goes from 4 lanes down to 2 at exit 55(hwy 73). Dont get me started on the traffic bottleneck that creates. But there are orange cones freakin everywhere. They have done what looks like grading in the grass between the lanes and at exit 58, which is know as "The Cloverleaf" to locals they are doing that diverging diamond interchange like at exits 52 and 55 and they already have the stop lights up, of course not working just up. Im shocked at how fast they are moving. 

from what I can see it looks like maybe they are wanting to widen from exit 55 to 58 and complete the diverging diamond interchange(which is the major interchange serving Concord and Kannapolis) , CMC-Northeast is one mile from the exit as well as the very swanky Carolina Mall. Then after thats done they'll be movin on up the road. 

Anyway this can all be found on the DOT sight which I am too lazy to find or insert a link. 

My biggest concern is that they are doint anything to the Lane Street exit as it's not what I would consider a major interchange. The Kannapolis Intimidators baseball stadium is at that exit and there is a CMC-Kannapolis freestanding ER but otherwise not too much is there. Just my 2 cents about that. 

[rancenc]

Here is the NCDOT visualization of the I-85 construction from Highway 73 exit to the Kannapolis/Lane Street Exit.  Should be completed in mid to late 2017

 

[cltbwimob]

The NCDOT won a summary ruling from a federal judge for the Monroe Bypass.  Work has been underway for about 3.5 months now, and with this ruling out of the way, it may be 100% finished with its legal troubles.  Of course, the SELC is considering appeal to the US 4th Circuit Court, so we will see if that happens.

 

https://apps.ncdot.gov/newsreleases/details.aspx?r=11670

[Third Strike]

I'm actually glad that this project is moving along, and hopefully the SELC doesn't appeal. Their solution to this corridor is to upgrade US 74 into a "superstreet", but I believe the NCDOT is doing that anyway. This bypass will probably help divert much of the trucking traffic from Monroe, and help with freight shipments to Wilmington. Too bad the NCDOT has done a bad job at selling this project. If they had mentioned that this road could one day become an interstate, and help link Charlotte with the coast, opposition could have been at a minimal. Hopefully the next step is working on the missing link between the Monroe Expressway and I-74 in Rockingham.

[southslider]

The funny thing about the Monroe Bypass is that it won't actually bypass existing 74 in Stallings. Drivers will have to travel new frontage roads to avoid tolls immediately southeast of 485. But I'm sure that factored nicely into the state's revenue projections for the project. 

[dubone]

Or people will pay to be on their ultimate road because at the end of the day, as much as everyone wants free, once they have their QuickPass, they will not think twice about a dollar or two to avoid some congestion hellscape.   

[southslider]

^People will have little choice but to pay.  My point was NCDOT should be more transparent with their customers.

As I've said before, tolls are the future. However, that future won't arrive so easily, if NCDOT keeps sneaking in tolls.  Just as most didn't know (or still don't know) about the 50-year clause for privatizing 77, I seriously question how many know that ALL of 74 (not just the bypass) will be tolled east of 485.

[grodney]

 

I seriously question how many know that ALL of 74 (not just the bypass) will be tolled east of 485.

 

On what timetable?  Not in any of our lifetimes, is it?

(I guess I could have googled this.)

[southslider]

^The Monroe Bypass is already under construction. So this decade, all of 74 in Union County becomes tolled through Stallings. 

Near Monroe, the project actually is a bypass, with the turnpike on completely new alignment. But in Stallings, the project is replacing existing 74 in the very same alignment. In other words, everyone on 74 near 485 must pay a toll.  The only free lanes will be off 74 on new frontage roads.

[Third Strike]

^ Are you sure about the Stallings bit? The video posted by the NCDOT shows the tolling portion doesn't happen until you divert onto the bypass. Seems like US 74 will be reconstructed from I-485 to a little past Stallings Road, but will remain free to use (unless plans have changed since the posting of this video):

 

[southslider]

^The video even shows gantry toll collection on the "exits" from the new Turnpike to existing 74 

[grodney]

Oh, I misunderstood what you were saying.  When you said "ALL of 74 (not just the bypass) will be tolled east of 485" I thought you meant from 485 all the way to Wilmington.

[southslider]

^Right, all lanes of 74 immediately east of 485. Basically, the tolling extends beyond the new bypass and on existing 74.  Talk about a sneaky way to guarantee more toll revenue.

[rugger62]

^Right, all lanes of 74 immediately east of 485. Basically, the tolling extends beyond the new bypass and on existing 74.  Talk about a sneaky way to guarantee more toll revenue.

What is the source for this? I can't imagine the NCDOT creating a PA Turnpike...

[southslider]

^I've seen the design before. I tried to find a public link. At least, the video recently posted in this thread shows the toll gantry over all lanes of 74. Whether or not this should be the design, the NCDOT hasn't been transparent with the public that there will be tolls on through lanes of 74. Most think unless they travel the bypass, there won't be any tolls. Going to be a very rude realization.

[tozmervo]

http://ww.charmeck.org/fastlanes/home.htm

My understanding is that the Monroe bypass will be toll-only. From the bypass to Charlotte, the ultimate plan is to create tolled express lanes similar to 77, however the free lanes will still exist. Similarly, 485 will ultimately be widened to include similar express lanes along the southern portion. 

[southslider]

^Yes, the bypass will be fully tolled. Meanwhile, 77 and 485 will have toll lanes in the middle.  Even 74 (Independence Blvd) inside 485 will have toll lanes in the middle. However, for a short segment of 74 just east of 485, this will be fully tolled as well, not just the new bypass. And since anyone traveling 74 in Union County pretty much has to go through Stallings, we're talking tolls for this major junction of existing 74.

Edited October 10, 2015 by southslider

[dcharlotte]

Good. Toll it all. If people don't want to pay for the roads then they can take an alternate form of transportation to/from their home in the suburbs into the city.

[15895]

Good. Toll it all. If people don't want to pay for the roads then they can take an alternate form of transportation to/from their home in the suburbs into the city.

As long as it doesn't hamper our job recruiting efforts