Traffic Congestion and Highway Construction

[49er]

If you add up all of the projects under construction now or in the next 5 years in the region, it is a staggering amount of $ being spent on roads. Like, billions and billions. Monroe bypass, 74 conversion, 485 tolls and recent widening/complete of loop, 77 tolls. That doesn't even count the various surface street widenings planned pretty much everywhere. I guess my point is that not every single highway here can have 6 general purpose lanes and 2-4 toll lanes immediately. Compared to years past, I feel like a lot of money is being invested in our road infrastructure. 

[dcharlotte]

15 hours ago, southslider said:

^Because the state has widened without abandon virtually everywhere else. Until North Mecklenburg sees others being treated the same, they have reason to fight the project.

Raleigh, Dallas, Nashville, and LA have more freeway miles than Charlotte, too. That's no reason to copy these cities obvious mistakes on car-dependency.

[Third Strike]

Construction of the I-485 toll lanes in South Charlotte is slated to start early 2017:

Charlotte Observer

Also, some concept art:

I-77 to Johnston Road

Johnston Road to Rea Road

Rea Road to US 74

Also, what's up with the extra large inner shoulders between Rea Road to US 74? I was under the impression this section would get two general purpose lanes, along with the two toll lanes, like the I-77 to Rea Road section. Or heck, even four toll lanes.

[southslider]

^Finally, another section of Charlotte highway (485 between Providence and 74) will be widened for toll lanes, but not general purpose lanes. About time that others start getting the "Lake Norman" treatment, since it's the new approach to highway construction. 

[cowboy_wilhelm]

I haven't seen this posted here, but among the projects being added or accelerated to the 2016-2025 STIP due to additional revenue is the widening of I-85 from U.S. 74 (Exit 10) to U.S. 321 (Exit 17). This project (I-5895) was previously not included in the STIP, and is scheduled for right-of-way and construction in FY 2022 and 2024, respectively. This is around the same schedule as the I-85 widening (I-5719) from U.S. 321 to N.C. 273 (Exit 27). This will result in a reduction of southbound travel lanes from four to two at U.S. 74. I haven't seen anything mentioned about widening I-85 to six lanes from the state line to U.S. 74, so this may turn into a bit of a bottleneck.

[tozmervo]

I don't care about widening 85 as much as redoing that awful interchange with 321

[southslider]

$1.6 Billion in found money, and still can't afford $300 million to widen I-77 around the Lake.

[nyxmike]

So I've been following the I-77 express lane issue and I still don't understand how the state can't afford to add one general purpose lane in each direction between 485 and Mooresville? There's plenty of right of way, for the most part. I'm not against HOT lanes, but every highway in a major metro area should have at least 3 general purpose lanes. It just seems crazy to say they can't afford to add one general lane (plus the HOT lanes) when there's room in the median to do so (at least until exit 28). Same for 485 in south Charlotte... there's no reason they can't afford to add one general purpose lane in the median between Rea Road and 74. It really can't be that cost prohibitive... 

Anyways, what's the chance Charlotte votes against the current plan on 1/20? 

[js4life]

^^very slim possibility that Charlotte reverses it's vote. To many other projects could be at risk like the blue line & street car extension for example. The biggest issue with funding for i-77 is other projects in the region that will score higher & likely to get funded quicker(I-85, Independence , I-77 south to the SC state line etc)

[nyxmike]

The state should still try to find the money to add one general purpose lane in each direction from 485 to exit 28... I was pretty surprised when I saw there weren't any plans to do so. That would probably help satisfy opponents. There's plenty of room in the median within that stretch, and it's not like they need to buy ROW which makes it less costly. Oh well!

[allthingsplanes]

I was driving back to Charlotte this weekend and saw something that highlights to me 2 big issues with the Charlotte area (and really NC in general).  We were driving through Nashville at night and the city seems huge compared to Charlotte - like much more of a big, urban city.  I was on I-40 and went straight through the city and downtown.  The 2 things they have that I feel like we don't are:

1. Well lighted streets - almost the entire length of the interstate from nearly 10 miles outside of the city was lit really well.  In Charlotte, major highways can be dark and major interchanges (for example I-485 and I-77 north) don't have any lights!!!).  
2. A 4-5 lane interstate that went for miles outside the downtown area.  This includes both an HOV lane and a dedicated "truck" lane.  

On top of that, they have a ton of highrise buildings outside of the core downtown.  So, even though their metro area is smaller (and the city itself is as well), and they don't have as many skyscrapers, it felt like a much bigger city.

Why don't we have better lit streets / highways?

[tozmervo]

The lighting issue is an ongoing pill, but I would point out that the highway width/skyscraper spread are both results of what I consider to be far, far, far worse sprawl in Nashville than in Charlotte. Despite/because of the egregiously wider highways, Nashville (IMO) has much worse traffic, too. (too lazy to look up, but I think average commute times in Nashville are longer than CLT)

[15895]

Spread out skylines make for great faux density pictures, but I rather keep the skyline & development as tight as possible. 

[Deleted.]

Charlotte city committee votes 3-2 for toll lanes

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/article52931200.html#emlnl=todays-headlines_newsletter

[AuLukey]

So, in other words, Charlotte backed itself into a corner with the 77 toll lanes because of the other toll lane projects in the area.  So now it basically has no other choice.

I know there are penalties that would have to be paid to Cintra in order to build competing lanes on 77, but what if an alternative route were to be built parallel (but not adjacent) to the interstate?  Or if more/improved roads connecting Huntersville/Cornelius/Davidson/Mooresville to one another would alleviate the traffic woes enough.  It's the lack of viable alternative routes along this corridor that is the killer to that area.  I know one road, Prosperity Church Rd, has an extension planned (but with no timeline that I'm aware of) that would greatly alleviate the traffic on 77 between Huntersville and Charlotte as it would give a fairly accessible way for people to get to and from 485 alternate to 77.

[southslider]

More importantly, Lyles voted yes. She is the Committee Chair, and the MPO delegate with the most weighted vote.

Personally, I think toll lanes make sense, just not as currently designed, or as a 50-year concession.  The project fails to connect 85 or 485, when most express lanes have direct ramps.  And of course, the project should be built as publicly operated toll lanes, like all others planned in the region.

[11 HouseBZ]

Please tell me I was told wrong, but are there not clauses in the contract that say no other widening projects can be done to other roads running parallel to 77 during life of this contract? For instance, a coworker said that even Sam Furr can't be widen without having to pay a penalty. I hope this is all false, but it just shows how far the rumors are flying outside those in the know. Could someone clarify? 

[tozmervo]

Someone (the state? the chamber?) has done a really lousy job promoting the "facts" of the contract, but the anti-toll rhetoric has also gotten to a point where I just don't believe what most people say the "facts" of the contract are. I have no idea what the truth is at this point.

[js4life]

I don't think the contract prohibits improvements to hwy 73,in fact I think this is what LKN residents should be focused on. Improvements to Statesville,Beatties Ford & hwy 150 should be top priorities to fund & construct among any other secondary roads that help manage traffic 

[15895]

1 minute ago, js4life said:

I don't think the contract prohibits improvements to hwy 73,in fact I think this is what LKN residents should be focused on. Improvements to Statesville,Beatties Ford & hwy 150 should be top priorities to fund & construct among any other secondary roads that help manage traffic 

What we need is tolls on Statesville to keep commuters off. 

[allthingsplanes]

18 hours ago, tozmervo said:

The lighting issue is an ongoing pill, but I would point out that the highway width/skyscraper spread are both results of what I consider to be far, far, far worse sprawl in Nashville than in Charlotte. Despite/because of the egregiously wider highways, Nashville (IMO) has much worse traffic, too. (too lazy to look up, but I think average commute times in Nashville are longer than CLT)

My point was that as you get into the heart of the city (within Davidson County anyway) it FEELS bigger.  It's not about the extent of sprawl.  For this post, I was merely talking about perception of the city for those who don't live there.  I believe most people on this site like the feel of bigger cities and a more urban environment.  An example of what I'm talking about - anyone driving north on I-77 probably doesn't feel like they're in a big city anymore once they pass exit 18, and I would argue that it's the case once they're past I-85.  Compare that to the feel of being on I-85 from Little Rock Rd. up to Harris Blvd.  It feels more urban.

Driving through Nashville I would have thought that it's a bigger city, had I not known the rough population compared to Charlotte's.  I recognize that part of what I wrote had to do with the HOV lanes and that's what you're responding to.  But as someone who wasn't commuting and was traveling through the city, it was nice to have more highway / space available.

18 hours ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

Spread out skylines make for great faux density pictures, but I rather keep the skyline & development as tight as possible. 

I find this confusing.  I have no idea how dense downtown Nashville is but as I said above my perception as a visitor was that it's a big city.  It's the same feeling I get in cities such as Atlanta, Denver, Dallas, Houston, etc.  I'm not arguing simply for a taller building or two - Oklahoma City has one really tall building but the city doesn't feel bigger.  

[archiham04]

One thing that, to me, makes the "interstate drive-by" experience in Charlotte so different is the trees.  i77 really goes through some pretty urban areas.. but you can't see them for the trees.  Charlotte built i77 straight through a creek bed across a greenway park, and over a cemetery.  Most other cities had to raze several neighborhoods to build theirs, and so the freeway(in some cases literally) cuts through the city

[go_vertical]

^^This right here. I've always thought I77 (northside and southside) does an absolutely amazing job masking the city just on the other side of those trees. Driving north a visitor would have zero idea that they are in the middle of a city that is quickly closing on one million residents until they are nearly at the exit for John Belk and bam, big city. I think the effect is pretty cool. 

[asthasr]

"Interstate perception" is not something to think about too much, honestly (although I'd argue 277 has some of the best urban views I've seen). There's mainly one reason that I'd say that: Winston-Salem. We used to live there and, at night in the winter, some of the views from US 52 are incredible. They made Winston-Salem look like a massive city. Even in the daylight, Business 40 feels extremely urban in a way that no freeway in Charlotte does. There are a couple of reasons for this. The hills (Winston is at a higher elevation and the terrain is more dramatic) allow roads to generate vistas where there's a big differential. There's a curve on US 52 N where you can see every street and house light in the suburban neighborhoods laid out like a carpet to the small downtown, and it looks huge. On the other hand, the age of Business 40 (built in the 1950s) means that it was built prior to the real Interstate standards: it is below grade, there are many bridges and short ramps, so everything feels "tight" and dense. While I would like for us to have more vistas, you can't exactly change geography, and the latter sense of "urbanity" is simply based on unsafe road construction. Sure, Winston might share it with the older cities of the northeast, but I'd still rather have safe roads and a genuinely dynamic city.

[archiham04]

"safer" is a matter of perspective.  designing a "safe" high speed interstate freeway through an urban center in and of itself is a little bit crazy. 

Edited January 5, 2016 by archiham04