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Kidd's Hill/Crabtree area development


jlblaes

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Massive fail of a site plan for the second phase of Crabtree Commons (aka Kidd Hill.) A single-story, single-use, 8420 square foot restaurant building surrounded by a moat of surface parking.

Crabtree Commons and Kidd's Hill are two different projects. Kidd's Hill is where Solis Crabtree now is. 

 

The freestanding restaurant is only feasible b/c Weingarten wrote off the property as a loss already since they paid north of $20 mil for it pre-recession. 

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Crabtree Commons and Kidd's Hill are two different projects. Kidd's Hill is where Solis Crabtree now is. 

 

The freestanding restaurant is only feasible b/c Weingarten wrote off the property as a loss already since they paid north of $20 mil for it pre-recession. 

I am amazed that people that do this for a living would arrive at a reasonable price of 7 million dollars an acre. The hype machine is a dangerous thing. Weingarten must not typically dabble in real estate in this area. As an aside, what does ethnicity have to do with marketing a property, because the linked brochure sure as hell shows it. Does this sort of stuff actually end up in a prospectus or is this just another hint these are non-professionals at work?

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http://www.weingarten.com/retail/property/U607-750/U607-750_mkt_pkg.pdf (if it's up-to-date) implies that a bank could still be put in a corner of the parking lot. 

 

Ho-ly crap that makes this look even worse.  Why in the world do they need that much parking?!?!  That's utterly ridiculous.  What kind of restaurant is that?  IKEA Meatball Emporium?

 

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Edited by DPK
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If I'm not mistaken wasn't this property previously considered for an upscale mixed use development that was fairly dense and similar to the Carolina Row concept? This garbage is what they are actually planning to develop?

 

Once again we see developers come to town with grandiose proposals that eventually turn into cheap crap. Hopefully one day the city will begin to see that this is not consistent with the city's longterm vision. 

Edited by RALNATIVE
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Isn't this the spot that used to have a Pizza Hut? Yet another stunning display of ineptitude. 

 

I think it was a Steak & Ale.

 

Ho-ly crap that makes this look even worse.  Why in the world do they need that much parking?!?!  That's utterly ridiculous.  What kind of restaurant is that?  IKEA Meatball Emporium?

 

 

Depends on what the seating arrangements are, but that many parking places for an 8000 sq ft restaurant is plausible - especially if it's more like a bar.

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Yee Haw! That here is what we need round these parts-none of that sissy, commie choo choo train crap. Give me enough space so I can double park my pick-up truck in front of the Golden Corral. 

LOL. Let's be fair now. It's not going to be a Golden Corral for sure. It's going to be a Bojangles all-you-can eat buffet.

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LOL. Let's be fair now. It's not going to be a Golden Corral for sure. It's going to be a Bojangles all-you-can eat buffet.

Wait, what? Not a Golden Corral? F*&^ it, I'm out. Taking my F-150 back to Clayton/Fuquay/Rolesville/Knightdale/Garner/Benson(Choose your own adventure here) 

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  • 1 month later...

That architecture would look fine in a proper urban environment…perhaps at the base of an office tower like say Charter Square (the stone is nearly identical). Or even just replacing a parking lot in Cameron Village and being snug up against an intersection, perhaps where topography would allow parking under it…SE corner of Cameron/Woodburn say. Anyway, merely dreaming….thanks for the post. 

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  • 4 months later...

I don't remember the name, but the apartments across Crabtree Creek from the mall are in full swing construction now. I guess in theory having apartments adjacent to the mall is a good thing, though the amount of density in the area without any serious improvements on how to get in and out of there, is reaching grotesque status. Double decking Glenwood through there is something I thought over....top deck goes from some area on the hill approaching from the NW directly to the beltline, and the lower, existing level serves local traffic. Anyway,...

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  • 2 years later...

New office building next to Crabtree Valley Mall attracts first office tenant.

https://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/news/2018/08/27/co-working-lease-prompts-start-of-large-office.html

Also today in a subscriber article an 18 story 252 room Westin Hotel is coming where the 43 story Soliel was once proposed.

Here is that article    https://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/news/2018/09/05/exclusiveplans-reveal-more-details-of-18-story.html

 

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What a mess. Even the most basic attempt to improve the situation around there from a transportation and transit perspective results in people who live in $5,000,000 houses screaming to "save Ridge Road". They left off "for the wealthy's exclusive use and enjoyment". There already is a direct connection to the Beltline...connecting Crabtree Blvd via the beltline wouldn't change much for Ridge Road people. 

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They actually moved the creek to situate the mall where it is currently. It floods with about 2 inches of rain in an hour or equivalent runoff peak. Even if the quarry was turned into the flood control device it was planned to be eventually, the dozen or so flood control structures already in place barely make up for the addition of so much hard surface upstream. The only fixes would be to elevate the mall, or route stream over to the next basin,thereby flooding that one instead. 

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Hurricanes aren't new, and the behavior of the creek is well-documented. Partly the decision lies with the developer, as to whether it can find tenants willing to move into a flood-prone area. This could be mitigated by putting the buildings on stilts (for lack of a better term) with parking at ground level, if the developer so chooses. Partly the decision lies with the City, in the sense of zoning or variances where applicable. But if the City does deny or attempts to, there could be legal ramifications. 

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The quarry is huge, right? Like, more than a billion gallons? And not far upstream from the mall either. My understanding of how flooding works is that a given stream has a certain capacity, and to a certain degree minor flooding helps to increase that capacity - but once the flow rate goes over a certain point, where further flooding doesn't increase the outflow by very much, it basically hits a tipping point and flooding gets bad quite quickly from there.  If you could use the quarry to capture just enough to keep the creek under that tipping point, and its entire capacity was dedicated towards flood control, and then pumped out after each flooding event,  it probably would make a pretty big difference.

This does nothing about flood waters coming from Hare Snipe Creek (Which has Lake Lynn) and drains roughly the wedge between Creedmoor and Leesville, House Creek, which is not impounded anywhere, and drains the relatively small area between Ridge and Blue Ridge, or the area between Glenwood, Duraleigh, and Blue RIdge which drains directly into Crabtree downstream of the quarry.

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After many years of haggling, the City and Hanson Aggregates cut a deal in 2014 that allows Hanson to continue operating the Duraleigh quarry until 2054. The deal gives the City an option to buy the quarry then. No relief for Crabtree Creek anytime soon, unless the deal is renegotiated. 

https://www.wral.com/raleigh-mining-firm-reach-deal-on-quarry/13358878/

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