Downtown Greensboro Developments

[JerseyBoy]

Trust me, I know what it takes to put a large scale development together. It is not an easy task, that is for sure. I'm just skeptical of the developer.

[cityboi]

Trust me, I know what it takes to put a large scale development together. It is not an easy task, that is for sure. I'm just skeptical of the developer.

If this were being planned by this developer alone, Id be skeptical too. But we already know a major Florida development company and international investors are "co-developing" this project which gives the project plenty of credibilty in my mind. They know what it takes to put a project like this together. Ray Gibbs even said Mr Issac Cain couldnt do this alone and that Issac pulled these other developers together to make the project viable. The former mayor who was fully briefed on this said its a very real project. And let me tell you, former mayor Keith Holliday is a very realistic person. If he did not believe this project were real, he wouldnt have said what he said. But even he was skeptical at first until he heard some "significant" updates. We just need to give it some time. We found out about it prematurely thats all.

Edited January 31, 2008 by cityboi

[cityboi]

Three restaurants will be opening up in downtown Greensboro between now and July.

"Rivas Trattoria" will be an Italian restaurant with casual dining located at 257 N. Greene Street. The restauraunt will open in mid-April.

"Mellow Mushroom" will be opening this Summer on South Elm Street.

"Side Trax" is a really interesting raustaurant that will be opening at 108 Barnhardt St off of South Elm. The restaurant takes its name from Norfolk Southern Railway tracks that cross Elm Street near the restaurant site. It will be located in a historic building built in the 1800's and the restaurant will be 5,000 square feet, seat 175 people on two floors and will also have bars on both floors. The second floor will also have an area for rooftop dining and this section will have 16 tables. Side Trax will be an "upscale casual" dining restaurant with southern and eclectic style. You can get a hamburger there but you will also be able to eat duck or salmon. This will certainly be one of the more interesting restaurant in downtown Greensboro and its one of several multi-floor restaurants down there. Side Trax is set to open July 4th.

Side Trax will be in the building with the red brick built in the 1800s (photo courtesy of pjsmith73)

back side

Edited April 5, 2008 by cityboi

[ezcheese]

Side Trax looks interesting. It's bordered by railroad tracks on two sides. Must make for an interesting dining experience when the trains come through. I'm sure that's what people think when they think "upscale casual."

"Honey, let's go to that fine restaurant where we have to pause in the middle of conversation when a train comes barreling through!"

[cityboi]

Side Trax looks interesting. It's bordered by railroad tracks on two sides. Must make for an interesting dining experience when the trains come through. I'm sure that's what people think when they think "upscale casual."

"Honey, let's go to that fine restaurant where we have to pause in the middle of conversation when a train comes barreling through!"

It would be nice if the restaurant had regular live music......"railroad blues" genre would be very appropriate. I think we need a Blues venue anyway. everything is either rock, jazz or R&B. We do have one disco 70s venue downtown but there seems to be no country music venues downtown. LOL this is North Carolina?.

Edited April 5, 2008 by cityboi

[cityboi]

Also last month Jimmy John's Gourmet Sandwiches opened in Downtown Greensboro on South Elm Street

[crowe1856]

Thanks for the restaurants update. That property along the tracks had been for sale for a while and I always thought it would be a neat location for a "blues, brews, and barbeque" type joint (not to offend the NC natives, but I was thinking ribs, not sammiches). You know, an upscale roadhouse; a few Harleys parked in front, but still a place you could take your kids for a burger. Anyways, it will be interesting to see what they do with the place.

Also good to see the Italian place going in on Greene. Too bad there's two entire blocks of anti-pedestrian parking deck on the other side of the St, but I think that little stretch of Commerce Place right there between Bellemede & Friendly could be a neat little mall area if you pulled out the meters & planted trees down the middle (keeping the parking). A few little shops/cafes & suddenly you have a nice stroll-inviting link between Elm & the ballpark. Would add a much needed East-West dimension to downtown (I'm aware that Commerce Pl runs North/South, I mean just something that's pedestrian friendly and not on Elm).

Edited April 5, 2008 by crowe1856

[cityboi]

The new General Greene Statue in downtown Greensboro made the national spotlight when it was shown on ESPN during the NCAA Women's regional basketball tournament in Greensboro earlier this month. Now more statues and monuments are planned for downtown. The Joseph M Bryan Foundation, which was responsible for the Greene Statue now wants to make a statue of Guilford County/Greensboro native Dolley Madison who was the wife of America's 4th president James Madison.

http://www.news-record.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...RSTAFF/76828299

Edited April 15, 2008 by cityboi

[luvdowntowngso]

The News & Record reports today on a possible new buyer for part of the Bellemeade property in downtown Greensboro. Maybe a new oroject is on the way!

http://www.news-record.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...STAFF/438880932

[cityboi]

The News & Record reports today on a possible new buyer for part of the Bellemeade property in downtown Greensboro. Maybe a new oroject is on the way!

http://www.news-record.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...STAFF/438880932

Its about time. I wonder who the local developer is? Could it be Issac Cain, the developer of the conceptual Greensboro Triumph Center? Could he be building a small scale version of his orgional plan? While many believe the project is completely dead, city leaders are still mum about it til this day and have said "no comment". Or could it be another developer like Roy Carroll that could be planning a mixed-use residential development? I do know that Roy Carroll was interested in land around that ballpark a few years back. My guess is that there is a good chance that any proposal could include alot of apartments. There is a very high demand for downtown apartments due to the poor housing market. The new CityView Apartments are almost completely leased out. If its not Issac Cain its likely Roy Caroll or John Kavanaugh. They have already invested in downtown and both developers have future plans for the center-city.

At any rate this is good news because we havnt heard of new downtown development news since last summer when the media was all on Issac Cain's mystery project. Hopefully 2008 will pick with more projects. DGI did say that there could be several "office projects" proposed this year.

On another good note, the News & Record reported on the new SIDE TRAX restauraunt that will be opening on Barnhardt St off of South Elm. The restaurant will offer upscale casual dining in a 1900s era building next to the railroad tracks. The restaurant will have two floors of dining, a basement lounge and an outside terrace overlooking the railroad.

http://www.news-record.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...STAFF/805070302

Edited May 8, 2008 by cityboi

[cityboi]

As I predicted Roy Carroll is the downtown developer that is going to develope 4.5 acres of the 6 acre former Chevrolet dealership lots next to NewBridge Bank ballpark. Roy said the buildngs there will be no higher than 6-stories but he said something. Roy Caroll also owns the former Guilford County Tax building and lot. That lot is located at the corner of Eugene and Lindsay Street across the street from the ballpark. Roy say he envisions a building there that could range between 6 and 30 stories! We now know of 3 potential Highrises. Roy's visionary tower across from the ballpark, His plans on the lot next to Center Pointe, and a Charlotte developer's plans for a 12-story boutique hotel/condo highrise.

http://www.news-record.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...STAFF/732960744

http://www.news-record.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...STAFF/805110305

Edited May 11, 2008 by cityboi

[cityboi]

two new restaurants will be opening in downtown Greensboro.

1. an Italian restaurant that will be located at the corner of North Greene Street and Bellemeade Street called Riva's Trattoria. It will be located a block away from NewBridge Bank Park.

http://rivastrattoria.com/

2. "Taste of the Caribbean" just opened on North Elm Street.

Also Manny'y Cafe in Southside on MLK near the Press will be having live jazz performed on Thursday nights outside on the patio.

Rim Tapas is a very nice wine bar/restaurant. It become a pretty good competitor to The Press located in Southside

http://www.rimtapas.com/

Edited May 15, 2008 by cityboi

[cityboi]

Horse patrol may be coming to downtown Greensboro.

http://www.news-record.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...RSTAFF/85325377

Also Roy Carroll is expanding his interest in downtown by proposing a 200 resdential unit project on the old Chevrolet site north of the ballpark. (site that was originally proposed for Bellemeade Village)

President of DGI has said that three groups are eyeing downtown for a major hotel project as well. Its not known yet if its the Greensboro Triumph Center that had seemed to be put on hold or entirely new groups planning a big hotel. But the way the article reads, apparently there could be 3 hotels in the works. One of those is probabally the 12-story hotel/condo tower being proposed by a Charlotte developer. That project is suppose to be built at the corner of Friendly Ave and Davie Streets, diagonally from Center-City Park.

http://triad.bizjournals.com/triad/stories...9262&page=1

Edited May 27, 2008 by cityboi

[coastalmindset]

Maybe with horse patrols the police will actually do some policing downtown. Standing on the corner doesn't seem to do doing too much. They could at least be out there sending all the 16 year old kids home by 1 AM.

All they really need to do is remodel the Marriott into a place where people actually want to stay. And given the latest reports on the local economy, like this one from the N&R, "Median earnings have declined, the poverty rate has risen to 19 percent, and population growth is sluggish, according to the report", I'd say we should look at some business development instead of hotels.

[crowe1856]

I'd say we should look at some business development instead of hotels.

Amen! When I see all these downtown hotel proposals, I can't help but wonder who's supposed to be staying in them.

[JerseyBoy]

Amen! When I see all these downtown hotel proposals, I can't help but wonder who's supposed to be staying in them.

I agree. The only time Greensboro gets enough tourists and patrons is when there are tournaments in town. As for the rest of the year, there are definitely not enough numbers to support these three hotels. I could see one out of the three possibly getting constructed.

[cityboi]

I agree that there should be more business coming in, however over the past several years the trend for developement downtown has been restaurants, entertainment and residential. Thats actually been the national trend. Thats the trend in Charlotte. Back in the 1990s the trend was downtown office development. We saw a boom of office towers being built in Charlotte and Greensboro. But its like a cycle. Im sure we'll see another boom in office development.

But the hotels would attract conventions downtown and create pedestrian street traffic. People staying at the hotels for conferences and conventions would spend money downtown at the restaurants, theater, museums and nightclubs. Hotels help bring more tourism traffic downtown so we shouldnt underestimate the importances of hotels in the central business district. Part of the attraction for having hotels downtown is the fact that everything is within walking distance plus there is the depot downtown. Unlike other hotels in the city where you have to get in your cars to go to restaurants and see other attractions. Personally Id like to see a major hotel and conference/convention center attached to the depot. Thats really a no brainer. But I agree that all three likely wont get built. But I think if all the downtown proposals in the past 10 years that fell thorugh were actually built, Greensboro's skyline would look much different today. We would have a 15-story office tower next to the ballpark and there is no telling how many other proposals there were out there that the general public never knew about. I wish I was a fly on the wall in the DGI meetings.

Edited May 28, 2008 by cityboi

[JerseyBoy]

I agree that there should be more business coming in, however over the past several years the trend for developement downtown has been restaurants, entertainment and residential. Thats actually been the national trend. Thats the trend in Charlotte. Back in the 1990s the trend was downtown office development. We saw a boom of office towers being built in Charlotte and Greensboro. But its like a cycle. Im sure we'll see another boom in office development.

But the hotels would attract conventions downtown and create pedestrian street traffic. People staying at the hotels for conferences and conventions would spend money downtown at the restaurants, theater, museums and nightclubs. Hotels help bring more tourism traffic downtown so we shouldnt underestimate the importances of hotels in the central business district. Part of the attraction for having hotels downtown is the fact that everything is within walking distance plus there is the depot downtown. Unlike other hotels in the city where you have to get in your cars to go to restaurants and see other attractions. Personally Id like to see a major hotel and conference/convention center attached to the depot. Thats really a no brainer. But I agree that all three likely wont get built. But I think if all the downtown proposals in the past 10 years that fell thorugh were actually built, Greensboro's skyline would look much different today. We would have a 15-story office tower next to the ballpark and there is no telling how many other proposals there were out there that the general public never knew about. I wish I was a fly on the wall in the DGI meetings.

Urban hotels do cause an increase in pedestrian traffic. BUT, you have to have a draw for people to stay in them. What Greensboro currently offers won't cut it.

[Beany]

whats up with the negativity? with the way the economy is, its great to hear about any possible downtown projects--whether they are hotels or not.

"The only time Greensboro gets enough tourists and patrons is when there are tournaments in town. As for the rest of the year, there are definitely not enough numbers to support these three hotels." --- I respect your opinion but it is just that an opinion. unless you have studied or are an expert of the hotel and tourism industry in greensboro?

i agree though, in my opinion i doubt all three would be built at least in the near future. it is difficult for me to see the demand for many rooms, but i'm not an expert and itsnt my money.

the negativity on this board is bad. it is unfortunate b/c the idea behind this place, and the sharing of information is great. i am not really a contributer here. if i had more time i would like to share more, but given the current attitude of some people whats the point? it is okay to be skeptical and pessamistic while respecting other posters and the places they represent. however too often the negativity is rooted in a dislike for a place and the desire to belittle. This is just an opinion from my perspective.

[luvdowntowngso]

It is interesting to read the debate in this forum regarding the need (or not) of another hotel in downtown Greensboro. Guys, do you realy believe a developer would sink millions of dollars in another hotel if they didn't think the project would fly? Why does it matter if we think there is a need or not! Developers do tons and tons of research before they ever move forward with a project. Otherwise they would go out of business. I don't know if there is a need or not for another hotel. Let the research make the decision. I'd be delighted if a project were announced tomorrow! I don't understand why some of you feel otherwise!

I do think that once another hotel project is announced, other proposed projects will be scraped or put on hold for several years. Of the ones in the works at the moment, the only one that has real legs is the proposed hotel at Davie and February One. Currently research (there's that word again) is being done to see if the project would fly. We will see. If it does get off the ground, I think it would most likely be a Wyndham.

Edited May 29, 2008 by luvdowntowngso

[JerseyBoy]

whats up with the negativity? with the way the economy is, its great to hear about any possible downtown projects--whether they are hotels or not.

"The only time Greensboro gets enough tourists and patrons is when there are tournaments in town. As for the rest of the year, there are definitely not enough numbers to support these three hotels." --- I respect your opinion but it is just that an opinion. unless you have studied or are an expert of the hotel and tourism industry in greensboro?

i agree though, in my opinion i doubt all three would be built at least in the near future. it is difficult for me to see the demand for many rooms, but i'm not an expert and itsnt my money.

the negativity on this board is bad. it is unfortunate b/c the idea behind this place, and the sharing of information is great. i am not really a contributer here. if i had more time i would like to share more, but given the current attitude of some people whats the point? it is okay to be skeptical and pessamistic while respecting other posters and the places they represent. however too often the negativity is rooted in a dislike for a place and the desire to belittle. This is just an opinion from my perspective.

I'm not being negative. I believe two out of the three hotels proposed are boutique? This would mean that they would have to survive on their own, compared to a chain which has to as well but gets a lot of support from the top. From my limited financial knowledge, it's a greater risk to build an indie hotel than a chain one. The point I'm trying to get across is that these hotels could work in Greensboro, but there has to be a reason people wish to stay in them. There's no doubt that they would be packed during tourney time, but what about the rest of the year? If you got Koury to step its game up and attract some decent conventions, then I'll retract my statements.

[krazeeboi]

Ummm, so I guess everyone forgets that downtown Greensboro actually has an office market. Having basically one hotel downtown serve as a lodging place for business travelers sounds like the downtown hotel market is quite underserved and could easily handle the absorption of a few more hotel rooms.

There are conventions in Greensboro all the time, so I think it's folly to say that "the only time Greensboro gets enough tourists and patrons is when there are tournaments in town." Of course, the tournaments bring in loads and loads of people, but I know that Greensboro typically picks up several religious conventions every year that have a few to several thousand attendees.

[coastalmindset]

I wasn't being negative with my comments but rather my point of view was that of concern. Greensboro keeps building offices, hotels, and retail without people to work in them, stay in them or shop at them. There are so many projects out there from developers (many which may never get developed) that the city is being overrun and continuing to sprawl. If we already have 2 downtown hotels and not many people staying in them why build one, two or three more? The city should lend a hand to the existing hotels so they are remodeled or bought by owners that will actually spend a few dollars on them.

I know that these developers do a ton of research. A lot of that research says we'll pick up X% just because we're "new" and we'll take away X% of business from the existing downtown hotels leaving them to die and become more vacant buildings downtown. I'd like to see a study showing where we need more hotels, maybe it's out there. We've just added the Proximity and remodeled the Double Tree/HOJO (<--this is what we need more of in Greensboro, remodel!) among others in the Wendover area. I think the hotel concentration is positioned where the people tend to stay. The convention center and I-40 have a large amount of hotels around them. The Friendly area has two hotels because of Friendly and the multitude of office parks around them. I just don't see convention people staying downtown when they can stay at or across the street from the place they spend their days.

Cities like Charlotte have lots of downtown hotels because they have multitudes of offices (BOA has 2 high rise buildings on it's own), a downtown arena (with pro sports and good concerts) and other draws. Greensboro, while I hope one day we get some of these things, doesn't have the need yet, in my opinion.

[cityboi]

Urban hotels do cause an increase in pedestrian traffic. BUT, you have to have a draw for people to stay in them. What Greensboro currently offers won't cut it.

It depends on what kind of hotel it is. It could be a business hotel for conventions. But also keep in mind the one thing that makes downtown a hot spot for hotels is the fact that the train station and bus station are nearby. Its no different from building hotels near airports. As I said before the key advantage in having more hotels downtown is having all the amenities within walking distance, galleries, museums, restaurants, theater, nightclubs and the Depot for convienient access throughout the city. Those reasons alone are good enough for having a hotel. And certainly there is a market for a downtown convention industry. Thats one of the city's stregnths. Its the resaon Greensboro has a 1,014 room hotel at the intersection of I-40 and High Point Road. (largest hotel between Atlanta and Washington)

But A hotel site doesnt have to be near Interstates, waterparks, amusement parks and other big attractions. All we have to do is look at the location of hotels like The Proximity. Its a very upscale hotel with a shopping center being the only thing nearby. But I do think downtown Greensboro has tourism potential. The International Civil Rights Museum is under construction and It appears that the ACC Hall of Champions and Museum wont be built on that site next to the colisuem which leaves the possibilty for a downtown site open. I do agree with luvdowntowngso. The research will determined if and when another big hotel is built downtown and not our opinions. If developers didnt believe in the potential and do their research, they wouldnt propose these projects.

Edited May 29, 2008 by cityboi

[cityboi]

Long sought after downtown lot is now for sale. The 3.63 acre lot is currently owned by the News & Record and is currently a parking lot. The lot's location is very attractive because its across the street from the depot. The site has gone on the market for $5.8 million. A year ago this site was being scouted for the mystery downtown mega-project which would have included a 20-story high-rise hotel, convention center and entertainment complex. If only the lot had been on sale a year ago.

http://www.news-record.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...STAFF/557872752

http://www.bizjournals.com/triad/stories/2...tml?jst=b_ln_hl

Edited May 29, 2008 by cityboi