The State of Downtown Grand Rapids Retail

[joeDowntown]

I think MoDiv is a great idea and a good start to revitalizing retail downtown, but what's up with the lack of signage? Unless you know it is there, you'd never realize how many different stores are in the building. Get some good signage, please?

Joe

[Veloise]

I think MoDiv is a great idea and a good start to revitalizing retail downtown, but what's up with the lack of signage? Unless you know it is there, you'd never realize how many different stores are in the building. Get some good signage, please?

Good point, let's not "KIAS." (explained in detail at the URL)

Follow-up:

Shandra Martinez {sodEmoji.|} The Grand Rapids Press January 18, 2012 at 1:15PM

I think others would agree. While I was doing my reporting, someone mentioned the need for more signs. I put in a call to Rockford Construction to ask about that. If I get an answer, I'll post it. Thanks for reading the story, and your observation.

Edited January 18, 2012 by Veloise

[SupercityGR]

Some singage and some marketing would go a long way. Hopefully it extends into morton house and down.

[GRDadof3]

There's a new vintage men's clothing store in there too now. Can't recall the name...

[SupercityGR]

Good to see new places there. Are there any opeings left for more stores to open there?

[joeDowntown]

Just walked by. I can't recall the name either. Oh wait, they didn't have a sign. LOL.

There's a new vintage men's clothing store in there too now. Can't recall the name...

[Veloise]

For lack of a better thread in which to share this...amusing contrast.

http://www.uppermich...11358#.TyFOLoFxlM0

It's about the lack of parking in downtown Iron Mountain.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Veloise

[SupercityGR]

The article doesnt say it has a lack of parking, just people to stupid to know where to park

And if Wolverine buys payless, then we might be getting a payless shoe store downtown

Edited January 26, 2012 by SupercityGR

[Veloise]

Some cheerleading for public spaces in downtowns. (Yep, the lead image is great. I'm sure those dancers all rode their bikes to the party.)

http://shareable.net/blog/the-decline-and-fall-of-strip-malls-and-big-boxes

[GRDadof3]

For those who thought a sign out in front of MoDiv would be nice, you got two:

[SupercityGR]

Love it, downtown shopping is back !!!

[Cedsed]

I haven't read all the way through this thread, but I have a question. Can anyone reccomend any places for basic grocery shopping near Cherry Hills? I am mostly looking for someplace cheap and close. I usually shop at Clark's on State, which sucks, or Wealthy Market, which is a little far.

[Veloise]

I haven't read all the way through this thread, but I have a question. Can anyone reccomend any places for basic grocery shopping near Cherry Hills? I am mostly looking for someplace cheap and close. I usually shop at Clark's on State, which sucks, or Wealthy Market, which is a little far.

Not many options, yet. Come back when there's a new grocery at Division & Wealthy. Your best variety/price option would be the D&W on Fulton near Carlton.

Distance - price - quality - variety...pick any two.

[GRDadof3]

A guy I've gotten to know recently (who might be on here now) told me about a new open air retail project that just opened in downtown Salt Lake City along their light rail line (he moved here from there recently). Has all the big names in retail, Macy's, Nordstrom, Banana Republic, Cheesecake Factory, etc.. $2 Billion project, financed by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (owns most of downtown SLC) and Taubman (the mall developer). Was in the works since 2007, combining two old basically vacant downtown retail spots, and spans 23 acres wedged in between a number of existing buildings. Interesting concept. Anyone got $2 Billion? (Amway ahem!) I dropped a similar concept on the lot next to 5/3 Bank tower and then the Lyon/Ottawa lot, tying those two spaces together and then having front door access to the convention center. Then you'd have a continuous retail element from the convention center, through the mall, and out to Ottawa Ave close to Monroe Center.

Let me know what you think...

City Creek Center (has retractable roofs, SLC gets lake effect snow):

http://www.downtownr...cope-a-timeline

http://www.flickr.co...ron/6866907752/

More pics

https://www.google.c...5EKrD2QWE-Kn3CA

http://www.flickr.co...ty creek center

A blogger breaks it down.

http://www.hercampus.com/school/utah/city-creek-center-ready-bring-life-salt-lake

[x99]

A guy I've gotten to know recently (who might be on here now) told me about a new open air retail project that just opened in downtown Salt Lake City along their light rail line (he moved here from there recently). Has all the big names in retail, Macy's, Nordstrom, Banana Republic, Cheesecake Factory, etc.. $2 Billion project, financed by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (owns most of downtown SLC) and Taubman (the mall developer). Was in the works since 2007, combining two old basically vacant downtown retail spots, and spans 23 acres wedged in between a number of existing buildings. Interesting concept. Anyone got $2 Billion? (Amway ahem!) I dropped a similar concept on the lot next to 5/3 Bank tower and then the Lyon/Ottawa lot, tying those two spaces together and then having front door access to the convention center. Then you'd have a continuous retail element from the convention center, through the mall, and out to Ottawa Ave close to Monroe Center.

Let me know what you think...

I think you've arrived at my ultimate fantasy, but with all of the suburban malls built around here, it could be a very tough sell. $2 billion is an enormous amount of money to be speculating with, even for Amway. It certainly would allow for utilization of a lot of underutilized space, though. Parking, generally, shouldn't really be much of an issue for after 5PM and weekends if a developer could get a reasonable long-term agreement with the city and/or Ellis, and hook into the Pearl/Ionia and Ellis ramps. You could shoot a rifle through most of the ramps on this end of town on any given weekend and not hit anything. Parking during the week would need to be addressed, and probably not inexpensively.

[wingbert]

A guy I've gotten to know recently (who might be on here now) told me about a new open air retail project that just opened in downtown Salt Lake City along their light rail line (he moved here from there recently). Has all the big names in retail, Macy's, Nordstrom, Banana Republic, Cheesecake Factory, etc.. $2 Billion project, financed by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (owns most of downtown SLC) and Taubman (the mall developer). Was in the works since 2007, combining two old basically vacant downtown retail spots, and spans 23 acres wedged in between a number of existing buildings. Interesting concept. Anyone got $2 Billion? (Amway ahem!) I dropped a similar concept on the lot next to 5/3 Bank tower and then the Lyon/Ottawa lot, tying those two spaces together and then having front door access to the convention center. Then you'd have a continuous retail element from the convention center, through the mall, and out to Ottawa Ave close to Monroe Center.

Let me know what you think...

City Creek Center (has retractable roofs, SLC gets lake effect snow):

Imagine that, the Mormons stepping up for urban development in their home town... I'm looking at you CRCNA. Of course, can an urban mall survive if it is closed on Sundays?

[GRDadof3]

I think you've arrived at my ultimate fantasy, but with all of the suburban malls built around here, it could be a very tough sell. $2 billion is an enormous amount of money to be speculating with, even for Amway. It certainly would allow for utilization of a lot of underutilized space, though. Parking, generally, shouldn't really be much of an issue for after 5PM and weekends if a developer could get a reasonable long-term agreement with the city and/or Ellis, and hook into the Pearl/Ionia and Ellis ramps. You could shoot a rifle through most of the ramps on this end of town on any given weekend and not hit anything. Parking during the week would need to be addressed, and probably not inexpensively.

The lot next to 5/3 already has two levels of parking, one at grade and one underground. There's also a ton of parking, generally unused during the week, at the convention center across the street from one of the (proposed) entrances. You could also incorporate parking into the underground and first floor portions of Lyon/Ottawa. Add to that all the existing ramps as you mentioned and I think parking would be covered.

I walked the area today and a new building lining the Southern end of Calder Plaza and stretching out onto Ottawa, as well as the bridge over the Ottawa/Lyon intersection would make for an incredible new gateway into downtown. Not to mention a makeover on Monroe Ave facing the convention center. Score big. Add a couple of residential towers onto it, labeled in orange on my sketch. Imagine the views from those balconies...

I think something like this is what Grand Rapids needs to take the next step into relevancy. And talk about an additional draw for conventions....

I think the entire thing could be done for less than a $1 Billion, as the footprint is smaller than SLC's.

[RegalTDP]

I think something like this is what Grand Rapids needs to take the next step into relevancy. And talk about an additional draw for conventions....

I think the entire thing could be done for less than a $1 Billion, as the footprint is smaller than SLC's.

My thoughts exactly. You do realize, though, that a project like this will bring in a lot of chain restaurants you hate, right?

This reminds me of Providence Place Mall here in Rhode Island, that was built on 13 acres right next to the Convention Center for about $460 million in 1999. It's designed like a more traditional mall, but still, it's a standard of downtown retail that GR doesn't have (besides that, the two cities are very similar). Whether built as a traditional mall or an interesting open air concept like in Salt Lake, I don't see why we shouldn't try to marry up a large retail project with our convention center, or why it wouldn't succeed as well as others have. I may be dreaming, but I would think it's the best chance we have to get any real retail downtown.

Maybe UP commenters can start a pool to fund this? I'm sure we'd amass a billion in no time... I nominate x99 to ante up first

Edited June 26, 2012 by RegalTDP

[Jippy]

I visited SLC last year and it is an impressive town. In many ways it reminded me of GR. Progressive urban bent in the center, surrounded by conservative ring. Interesting intersections of the two groups with the wealthy conservative groups dedicated to the revival of urban center -- makes for an interesting synergy (as an aside, the largely non-partisan tone that most local politics in Grand Rapids is what makes it successful. Most can cooperate with those of different political stripes because it is not as overt on local issues as it is in other parts of the country...simplified and I digress). The key difference is that in SLC, the principal investor (Mormoun church) is also headquartered downtown...now if we could just get Amway to move their headquarters downtown!

The other impressive component in SLC, is that the residents and businesses have a bit of a social contract to develop one of the most robust urban transit systems in the country. SLC is a relatively small city population-wise, but the community has agreed to tax themselves to develop an amazing light rail and street car network (yes, they are building each).

In regards to the proposed, the $2b encompasses several square blocks and contains residential and office towers.

[GRDadof3]

Maybe UP commenters can start a pool to fund this? I'm sure we'd amass a billion in no time... I nominate x99 to ante up first

Kickstarter Campaign Baby.

FYI, I don't like Providence Place as much.

[mgreven]

That idea is great! On a much smaller note, I ran down Louis this morning and the spot next to Lee and Birch says "LEASED" now. Wonder if we have more retail going in there?

[Allison Slater]

I've actually always pictured something like this along Market. Keep it an urban environment, but attract retailers like a mall would. Build a decent number of parking garages back behind (but not facing) Market, run a streetcar/brt down the road, and select three or more evenly-spaced locations along Market within which to try to attract anchor stores such as Macy's, Sears, Saks Fifth, (Klingman's would have been neat but alas.) And then fill in the space between with smaller-scale retail, aiming to fill some percentage of the spaces with locally-owned businesses. Market south of Wealthy would have a sort of Boardwalk treatment along the river. Buildings kept in the range of 4-5 storeys with Parisian architectural style to create a uniform look, but sign on a multitude of architects for the project so each building still retains individuality. Hotels and what-have-you fill in the spaces east of Market, and of course Market leads right into the heart of the city, helping to maintain a connection to the rest of the city without being too disjointed.

Pipedreams are fun to entertain once in a blue moon. But really, I do wonder how well it would work if downtown retail were approached like a mall: trying to attract anchor stores to increase the demand for the smaller shops to collect around them.

[wmrharris]

The urban mall is sort of perennial idea. Skeptics would note that it was done once before, at the head of Monroe when Herplosheimers (and then its second-tier mid-level successor) was connected to Jacobson's. In the interior was the proverbial food court, and opportunities for local businesses and minor chain stores. This was 1980 or so. At opening, it was ok, but it still failed and so became the police department.

At the time there was also talk of a marketplace development on what is now the Art Museum space (Faneuil Hall be the model).

The lesson in both is that retail needs customers. Lots of them, especially malls. (Roger's Plaza? Eastbrook?)

[walker]

The urban mall is sort of perennial idea. Skeptics would note that it was done once before, at the head of Monroe when Herplosheimers (and then its second-tier mid-level successor) was connected to Jacobson's. In the interior was the proverbial food court, and opportunities for local businesses and minor chain stores. This was 1980 or so. At opening, it was ok, but it still failed and so became the police department.

At the time there was also talk of a marketplace development on what is now the Art Museum space (Faneuil Hall be the model).

The lesson in both is that retail needs customers. Lots of them, especially malls. (Roger's Plaza? Eastbrook?)

The old City Center Mall would have been impressive in size if it really had connected Herpolsheimers with Jacobson's on Jefferson but I think you meant to write Gantos which was the building next door. One of the problems with City Center is that it was done on the cheap. It ended up looking shabby pretty fast.

[GRDadof3]

The urban mall is sort of perennial idea. Skeptics would note that it was done once before, at the head of Monroe when Herplosheimers (and then its second-tier mid-level successor) was connected to Jacobson's. In the interior was the proverbial food court, and opportunities for local businesses and minor chain stores. This was 1980 or so. At opening, it was ok, but it still failed and so became the police department.

At the time there was also talk of a marketplace development on what is now the Art Museum space (Faneuil Hall be the model).

The lesson in both is that retail needs customers. Lots of them, especially malls. (Roger's Plaza? Eastbrook?)

Just because an "idea" in one form fails doesn't mean the "idea" is a bad one. Ideas are poorly executed all the time, that's why 2/3's of businesses fail in the first couple of years.

A mall downtown would really have to be a regional draw and provide a collection of retailers that aren't available in the metro area. It should be noted in my research of City Creek Center in SLC, another mall downtown SLC called The Gateway ain't doing so hot, and lost several tenants to City Creek. But its main anchors are Dick's Sporting Goods, Barnes & Noble and a movie theater. No one travels 20 - 50 miles for that.

City Creek's goal is 10 Million visitors a year. And with its close proximity to the convention center and all the Mormon Temple attractions downtown, they will probably get that.

Rivertown Crossings gets around 15 Million/year. So you'd have to build something better than Rivertown, which shouldn't be hard because that place is looking tired and old already, and the department stores basically suck there.

I'm beginning to lose hope that any sizable collection of locally owned shops can make a go of it downtown GR, without some major "draw."