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The State of Downtown Grand Rapids Retail


GRDadof3

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Excellent idea! I was just thinking the other morning that what is also needed is someone with the vision to get this done and the money &/or clout to make it happen. Someone similar to Sam Cummings who accomplished an amazing revitilization on Ionia by the arena (and other areas). Turning dilapidated buildings into vibrant, money making ventures. [altho I was sad to hear the Sierra Room is closing]

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This Saturday at 11am does not work for me as I am getting married three hours later at 2pm.

Good luck on the meeting...shoot me a copy of the minutes...I'll be at the next one.

Todd

No priorities here!

Seriously, I've been thinking about this effort a lot lately. One thing Jay mentioned in '05 was advertising for DT. (Guess that's where psycho olive KIAS came from.) I've often seen various city brochures at highway rest areas (did I pick any up last time? I did not). One thing mentioned previously on UP is a hand-out map of DT complete with business & services listed, and parking areas delineated...to be distributed to the CM soccer moms and everyone else.

The DDA already has a regular trash detail. (Might be the DT Alliance...will look closer next time I see them.)

I will see about unearthing a business inventory; maybe we don't have to do our own.

If you're reading this thread, please make your own wish list of what we need DT, both in terms of new retailers and intangibles. (E.g. wayfinding signage, light pole banners, RFP for street performers, live music at the Tuesday night RPC swing dance...) You can append it here or PM it to me.

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If you're reading this thread, please make your own wish list of what we need DT, both in terms of new retailers and intangibles. (E.g. wayfinding signage, light pole banners, RFP for street performers, live music at the Tuesday night RPC swing dance...) You can append it here or PM it to me.

What I think DT needs (irrespective of not having critical resident mass yet) would be:

Full fledged grocery store. We won't (and probably shouldn't) get a 5 acre Meijer store, but I think a downtown Family Fare or other similar concept is critical. Either include a pharmacy within the store, or get a Walgreens / RiteAid to come downtown as well.

Clothing store. I don't think a Macy's or Sears would ever work downtown, but what about trying to lure in a Gap, J.Crew, Polo, or American Apperal store? There are a ton of business people downtown that need to wear nice shirts and pants every day to work, so bring in a Joseph A. Bank, J.Jill, or whatever popular business-dress stores are out there.

Homewares store. Crate and Barrel, Restoration Hardware, or Pottery Barn, anyone? These are destination stores that will pull in plenty of suburbanites and their dollars.

As for way-finding, it took me a while to get reaccustomed to downtown and its wonderul one-way and angled streets. Visitors can get lost and are intimidated by this (i.e. my suburbanite parents). A mass-mailer to the metro area, or even semi-regular inserts in the GR Press with maps, would greatly help with this.

Also, I am really, REALLY tired of hearing about "parking problems" downtown. I have never, ever had to park more than three blocks away from any place I wanted to go, whether on Ionia, Monroe Center, Grandville Ave, Stockbridge area or N. Monroe. THREE BLOCKS - that's it. Put a comparison article in the paper of what three blocks is...how far do you park away from Great Lakes Crossings or Woodland mall on any given Saturday? What about Meijers? It can be at least 100 yards to the door, if not double that, on ANY given day, let alone during heavy shopping periods. Parking and the severe pain of walking three blocks downtown is all a mental issue for people...let them see comparisons of their everyday shopping experiences, and attitudes will change. People in big cities walk 4 or 5 blocks just to get to public transport and are tickled pink it's that close...we want to be a metropolitan city? We need to get into the mindset of one...

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There are many important things to consider but one area I like to focus on is "market education".

We need to get more people downtown now...get them to use the retail we have now.

If you go to 28th street on any given evening every restaurant is packed.

We need that downtown now with what we currently have...if we do, that will drive bigger retail to come downtown.

I don't see too many more people investing in the DT based on hunches or forecasts.

If we get a more consistent mass DT, that will go a long way to convince investors DT GR is ready for the next step in retail

I think a new/stronger marketing plan will have to be implemented.

Educate people in the burbs that the DT is not dangerous.

Edited by john_denver
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What I think DT needs (irrespective of not having critical resident mass yet) would be:

Full fledged grocery store. We won't (and probably shouldn't) get a 5 acre Meijer store, but I think a downtown Family Fare or other similar concept is critical. Either include a pharmacy within the store, or get a Walgreens / RiteAid to come downtown as well.

Clothing store. I don't think a Macy's or Sears would ever work downtown, but what about trying to lure in a Gap, J.Crew, Polo, or American Apperal store? There are a ton of business people downtown that need to wear nice shirts and pants every day to work, so bring in a Joseph A. Bank, J.Jill, or whatever popular business-dress stores are out there.

Homewares store. Crate and Barrel, Restoration Hardware, or Pottery Barn, anyone? These are destination stores that will pull in plenty of suburbanites and their dollars.

As for way-finding, it took me a while to get reaccustomed to downtown and its wonderul one-way and angled streets. Visitors can get lost and are intimidated by this (i.e. my suburbanite parents). A mass-mailer to the metro area, or even semi-regular inserts in the GR Press with maps, would greatly help with this.

Also, I am really, REALLY tired of hearing about "parking problems" downtown. I have never, ever had to park more than three blocks away from any place I wanted to go, whether on Ionia, Monroe Center, Grandville Ave, Stockbridge area or N. Monroe. THREE BLOCKS - that's it. Put a comparison article in the paper of what three blocks is...how far do you park away from Great Lakes Crossings or Woodland mall on any given Saturday? What about Meijers? It can be at least 100 yards to the door, if not double that, on ANY given day, let alone during heavy shopping periods. Parking and the severe pain of walking three blocks downtown is all a mental issue for people...let them see comparisons of their everyday shopping experiences, and attitudes will change. People in big cities walk 4 or 5 blocks just to get to public transport and are tickled pink it's that close...we want to be a metropolitan city? We need to get into the mindset of one...

Heh heh. The nifty thing about this forum is that we tens of folks post ideas, and they then get presented to the masses via the conventional media.

Chris, how about publishing (with ink) some of GRDad's "parking porn"?

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I'd like to see something like "When was the last time you were downtown?" It's time for the suburbanites to start thinking of coming to downtown GR for a night out instead of Applebees. The focus could be on some of the lesser-known things to do. Obviously, everybody knows about the arena, but how many people know that you can bring your own booze into Marado? Also, an attempt could be made to remind people that they don't have to go to Detroit or Chicago to participate in things "big city," as there is already a vibrant one just minutes away.

...just some thoughts on marketing.

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I'd like to see something like "When was the last time you were downtown?" It's time for the suburbanites to start thinking of coming to downtown GR for a night out instead of Applebees. The focus could be on some of the lesser-known things to do. Obviously, everybody knows about the arena, but how many people know that you can bring your own booze into Marado? Also, an attempt could be made to remind people that they don't have to go to Detroit or Chicago to participate in things "big city," as there is already a vibrant one just minutes away.

...just some thoughts on marketing.

Yes, I agree...kind of what I am thinking too.

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I'd like to see something like "When was the last time you were downtown?" It's time for the suburbanites to start thinking of coming to downtown GR for a night out instead of Applebees. The focus could be on some of the lesser-known things to do. Obviously, everybody knows about the arena, but how many people know that you can bring your own booze into Marado? Also, an attempt could be made to remind people that they don't have to go to Detroit or Chicago to participate in things "big city," as there is already a vibrant one just minutes away.

...just some thoughts on marketing.

What?!? There are corking licenses here?!?!?!?

Oh, wait, KIAS.

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Also, I am really, REALLY tired of hearing about "parking problems" downtown. I have never, ever had to park more than three blocks away from any place I wanted to go, whether on Ionia, Monroe Center, Grandville Ave, Stockbridge area or N. Monroe. THREE BLOCKS - that's it. Put a comparison article in the paper of what three blocks is...how far do you park away from Great Lakes Crossings or Woodland mall on any given Saturday? What about Meijers? It can be at least 100 yards to the door, if not double that, on ANY given day, let alone during heavy shopping periods. Parking and the severe pain of walking three blocks downtown is all a mental issue for people...let them see comparisons of their everyday shopping experiences, and attitudes will change. People in big cities walk 4 or 5 blocks just to get to public transport and are tickled pink it's that close...we want to be a metropolitan city? We need to get into the mindset of one...

After looking at that DT marketing analysys, more should definitely be done to address parking. And NO, I don't mean add more. I mean educate people that it's not that big of a deal.

Reasons for not coming downtown:

Not Convenient to Get to: 24%

Not Enough Parking: 19%

Parking Too Expensive: 14%

On that note, another common theme keeping people out of the CBD is:

Nothing to do: 34%

Poor Selection of Shops: 12%

I think that addressing this issue is the main purpose of the DRTF.

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As for way-finding, it took me a while to get reaccustomed to downtown and its wonderul one-way and angled streets. Visitors can get lost and are intimidated by this (i.e. my suburbanite parents). A mass-mailer to the metro area, or even semi-regular inserts in the GR Press with maps, would greatly help with this.

I like this. Can't you just see it now? Hundreds of visitors pulling their Center City maps from their fanny packs, asking locals "How do I get to the ice cream shop from here?" This is an idea that should be brought up at the meeting.

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I like this. Can't you just see it now? Hundreds of visitors pulling their Center City maps from their fanny packs, asking locals "How do I get to the ice cream shop from here?" This is an idea that should be brought up at the meeting.

An ice cream shop!! I'll add that to my desired retail list, right below Family Fare and above Gap (cold treats beat out new khaki's almost every time :good: ). Holland has what, two or three of them downtown? (can think of Ben and Jerry's and Coldstone, not sure if a third) Granted, it's a limited selling season, but couple one up with a local coffee shop, and the synergies abound...I'd love to see a Stucci's over here (a nice, tasty, Michigan-based chain).

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Although Coldstone seems to keep busy all year. :dontknow: Must be the singing scoopers. ;)

An ice cream shop!! I'll add that to my desired retail list, right below Family Fare and above Gap (cold treats beat out new khaki's almost every time :good: ). Holland has what, two or three of them downtown? (can think of Ben and Jerry's and Coldstone, not sure if a third) Granted, it's a limited selling season, but couple one up with a local coffee shop, and the synergies abound...I'd love to see a Stucci's over here (a nice, tasty, Michigan-based chain).
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I dont get the whole "arts and entertainment" strategy thing. Does anyone think that DT GR will be full of people going to art galleries and ballet concerts?

rhino, a mass mailer to the burbs would cost like $300,000. Something in the press, or grbj, or whatever, now that makes more sense. :thumbsup:

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I'm sure plenty of other examples will come up tomorrow, but before Gerald Ford's drive-by downtown, I was at the corner of Monroe and Michigan, I had a cup of coffee from Four Friends and I swear 20 people asked me where I got it. I just said "walk a block South and there's one on every corner".

I'm glad everyone here agrees that more parking is not the answer. If you take that logic to an extreme conclusion, downtown would be one big parking lot with nothing to park for. Every parking lot added reduces the reasons to come downtown, not increases the reasons. But it seems counterintuitive to tell people that to solve the parking problem, you need to get rid of parking lots and put buildings in their place. Buildings with things to do inside.

Of course downtown could not survive with 0 parking, but the pendulum has swung too far on the parking supply side, at the detriment of "amenity supply" (things to do).

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I'd like to see something like "When was the last time you were downtown?" It's time for the suburbanites to start thinking of coming to downtown GR for a night out instead of Applebees. The focus could be on some of the lesser-known things to do. Obviously, everybody knows about the arena, but how many people know that you can bring your own booze into Marado? Also, an attempt could be made to remind people that they don't have to go to Detroit or Chicago to participate in things "big city," as there is already a vibrant one just minutes away.

...just some thoughts on marketing.

You might want to check on the bringing of your own booze to Marado's. We were there two weeks ago and every table had unopened bottles of vino. When we asked to have ours opened they told us that they were unable to do that any more and that they were working on a liquor license.

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A little late in responding, but I'm going to try to make tomorrow's meeting too.

An ice cream shop!! ....I'd love to see a Stucci's over here (a nice, tasty, Michigan-based chain).

Stucci's is moving into to Eastown pretty soon. If that one goes well, maybe we can convince them to open one downtown. I scooped for them when I was at UofM.

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I'm sure plenty of other examples will come up tomorrow, but before Gerald Ford's drive-by downtown, I was at the corner of Monroe and Michigan, I had a cup of coffee from Four Friends and I swear 20 people asked me where I got it. I just said "walk a block South and there's one on every corner".

...

earmuffs.jpg

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rhino, a mass mailer to the burbs would cost like $300,000. Something in the press, or grbj, or whatever, now that makes more sense

Oh...I've gone the mailer route. Peel, stick. Peel, stick. Peel, stick. I was thinking maybe some sort of kiosk with "maps and information," as well as putting them near the entrances of restaurants, full page layout in GR Press, "On the Town," etc...

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Oh...I've gone the mailer route. Peel, stick. Peel, stick. Peel, stick. I was thinking maybe some sort of kiosk with "maps and information," as well as putting them near the entrances of restaurants, full page layout in GR Press, "On the Town," etc...

Seriously, if you guys come up with ideas that are innovative, exciting and inexpensive, the DDA has a budget for things like this. You just might be able to get your idea inserted into the budget:

http://www.ci.grand-rapids.mi.us/download_...a0f4d0c5cf2.pdf

(starting on page 11)

With the power of the internet too, I wondered if we could get a mass of people to start individual blogs about Grand Rapids. I know there are already a ton out there, but more can't hurt. You can start a blog at blogspot for free (I believe). http://www2.blogger.com/home

Here's a great one about development in Spokane:

http://metrospokane.typepad.com/index/arch...ture/index.html

Anyone watch Rachael Ray on Food Network? She does those $40 a day shows where she travels around the country and stays in different cities, going to all the local hangouts and trying to stay on a budget of $40/day. The show (and Rachel Ray) are HUGE hits. Perhaps we could contact her and invite her to come to GR. She goes everywhere, and not all big cities. There are a ton of locally owned places in GR that I'm sure she would love.

If she'll go to Saratoga, NY, I'm sure she'd come here if invited.

http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/show_ad

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Seriously, if you guys come up with ideas that are innovative, exciting and inexpensive, the DDA has a budget for things like this. You just might be able to get your idea inserted into the budget:

http://www.ci.grand-rapids.mi.us/download_...a0f4d0c5cf2.pdf

(starting on page 11)

...

From the Statement of Current Project Expenditures:

DT brochure update $15,000

Parking & Transportation program $1,598,795

Special Event Annual Support $100,000

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Also, I am really, REALLY tired of hearing about "parking problems" downtown. I have never, ever had to park more than three blocks away from any place I wanted to go, whether on Ionia, Monroe Center, Grandville Ave, Stockbridge area or N. Monroe. THREE BLOCKS - that's it. Put a comparison article in the paper of what three blocks is...how far do you park away from Great Lakes Crossings or Woodland mall on any given Saturday? What about Meijers? It can be at least 100 yards to the door, if not double that, on ANY given day, let alone during heavy shopping periods. Parking and the severe pain of walking three blocks downtown is all a mental issue for people...let them see comparisons of their everyday shopping experiences, and attitudes will change. People in big cities walk 4 or 5 blocks just to get to public transport and are tickled pink it's that close...we want to be a metropolitan city? We need to get into the mindset of one...

You might not see a problem, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I don't care how downtown savvy anyone is; parking can be the problem for those who aren't downtown regularly or ever. If you want to talk about the problem, parking is the problem in that it's not sustainable.

I'm starting to think it's not so much how far it is, but where parking is in relation to the front door. From my observation it's whether the customer is in line-of-sight to the entrance of the establishment that determines its perception of usefulness. I apply this concept to those who rarely go downtown or are not familiar with Downtown. I would assume the more familiar the user is with how downtown works the less this applies to them.

People accustomed to the suburban (even urban) environment expect point to point access because that is the norm. Circumstance has allowed for parking in front and near the entrance allowing the facility to have effective usability. These folks don't have trouble walking, in fact they walk several hundred feet inside the building to shop. Their access has been given to them. Park the vehicle and walk a couple hundred feet to the front door. There is no corner building to walk around. There are no streets to cross (I could argue the entire parking lot is a street.) There is just one shot to the door and this has been expected of many commercial/residential/retail developments.

It seems that folks from one environment apply what they know from their home environment. You have folks coming in from the suburbs (or not) that expect the downtown to be on the same scale and usability.

Edited by Rizzo
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