Centerpointe Mall to get huge makeover (again)

[GRDadof3]

The mall owners plan to demolish much of the current mall, including Klingman's 3 story anchor, to build a new open-air lifestyle center that will stretch out into the Southern parking lot. They are in process of trying to lure high end retailers to fill the 30 new retail spaces. Klingman's will most likely get a new building.

Read the entire article HERE.

I was expecting a similar announcement to come from Woodland, but Centerpointe beat them to it apparently.

[Eridony]

So this is the 4th Lifestyle center to be proposed in the Grand Rapids are right? Plus this one is over a year behind the other proposals. It will be interesting to see if this actually happens.

[NorthEnder]

So this is the 4th Lifestyle center to be proposed in the Grand Rapids are right? Plus this one is over a year behind the other proposals. It will be interesting to see if this actually happens.

Do these people forget we live in Michigan? The lifestyle mall in Lansing is a pain in the butt for 6 months out of the year from cold, blowing snow, rain, sleet, or crappy conditions.

[Eridony]

Do these people forget we live in Michigan? The lifestyle mall in Lansing is a pain in the butt for 6 months out of the year from cold, blowing snow, rain, sleet, or crappy conditions.

I agree, the only thing I ever went there for was to go to the movies. Of course I'm not the type of person they are trying to attract, I'll take a real downtown over a fake one any day.

[Veloise]

Competition is good for everyone, said Barbara Jans, marketing director at Woodland Mall, which sits on the other side of East Beltline Avenue.

"Centerpointe serves a slightly different customer," she added. "Any improvement there will help retail traffic flow between the two centers."

???

If these two malls serve different clientele, how can there be retail traffic flow between them?

Or is she implying, "Woodland is soooo much more upscale than CP, anything they do can only help themselves. And then their pond scum shoppers will discover wonderful us..."?

[suydam]

Competition is good for everyone, said Barbara Jans, marketing director at Woodland Mall, which sits on the other side of East Beltline Avenue.

"Centerpointe serves a slightly different customer," she added. "Any improvement there will help retail traffic flow between the two centers."

???

If these two malls serve different clientele, how can there be retail traffic flow between them?

Or is she implying, "Woodland is soooo much more upscale than CP, anything they do can only help themselves. And then their pond scum shoppers will discover wonderful us..."?

What she really means is "if they end up building any more lifestyle centers north of us on the E Beltline our mall will end up looking like Centerpointe Mall."

Woodland would be foolish not to encourage more retail at their corner. The massive developments planned just a few miles north will kill them if something isn't done at that corner.

[GRDadof3]

What she really means is "if they end up building any more lifestyle centers north of us on the E Beltline our mall will end up looking like Centerpointe Mall."

Woodland would be foolish not to encourage more retail at their corner. The massive developments planned just a few miles north will kill them if something isn't done at that corner.

Agreed. This way Centerpointe foots the bill to inject some energy that will be needed in that area in a few years, and Woodland can hopefully skate by without having to demolish and adapt. Woodland can't risk kicking out its current tenants and try to attract upscale retailers. It'd be suicide.

It sounds like the Walker lifestyle center is now being pushed off to a 2010 or 2011 opening, so the 3 Mile/Beltline Village is the only game in town for the North side. But it's still going to rob all the upscale shoppers from 28th and Beltline. Once the 3 Mile one opens, you will probably never see Cascade, EGR, Ada and Rockford shoppers at Woodland ever again. Especially not with intermittent showings of "West Side Story" at the food court. Plus, if they get Crate & Barrel, it's all over for the opposing team.

That Woodland mall manager better start looking into meds.

[GRguy]

About 10 years ago, they were having a similar problem with Lenox Square in Atlanta. They solved that problem by building a second level and really yupscaling (you heard it here first) the interior. It worked. Maybe woodland could add another level, reshuffle and have a lot of room for Crate and Barrel et al.

[WOT]

Agreed. This way Centerpointe foots the bill to inject some energy that will be needed in that area in a few years, and Woodland can hopefully skate by without having to demolish and adapt. Woodland can't risk kicking out its current tenants and try to attract upscale retailers. It'd be suicide.

It sounds like the Walker lifestyle center is now being pushed off to a 2010 or 2011 opening, so the 3 Mile/Beltline Village is the only game in town for the North side. But it's still going to rob all the upscale shoppers from 28th and Beltline. Once the 3 Mile one opens, you will probably never see Cascade, EGR, Ada and Rockford shoppers at Woodland ever again. Especially not with intermittent showings of "West Side Story" at the food court. Plus, if they get Crate & Barrel, it's all over for the opposing team.

That Woodland mall manager better start looking into meds.

Would they not be in a better position to attract some of those upscale venues from the Walker development since it appears they have the resources available to make this happen now vs. "maybe"? But I agree, WOODLAND better get a handle on extra activities. I was there 2 weeks ago to pick up my daughter from work and there about 6 police cars outside the food court breaking something up. There were people everywhere outside screaming and shouting - not a great visual for the customer.

Also - haven't seen any more posts lately - is the developer at 3mile/Knapp still threatening a mobile home park?

[suydam]

About 10 years ago, they were having a similar problem with Lenox Square in Atlanta. They solved that problem by building a second level and really yupscaling (you heard it here first) the interior. It worked. Maybe woodland could add another level, reshuffle and have a lot of room for Crate and Barrel et al.

Sort of the opposite strategy they used at Somerset Collection in Troy. That place was dead in the water as Neiman Markus/Saks 5th + Tiffany, etc.

When they added the Hudson's/Field's/Macy's stuff across the street and low-browed it with places like Pottery Barn, Nordstrom, etc. they must have doubled their traffic. The traffic at that new side still seems heavier when I visit family and end up trapped in the confines of Somerset during the Christmas season.

[Kib]

Sort of the opposite strategy they used at Somerset Collection in Troy. That place was dead in the water as Neiman Markus/Saks 5th + Tiffany, etc.

When they added the Hudson's/Field's/Macy's stuff across the street and low-browed it with places like Pottery Barn, Nordstrom, etc. they must have doubled their traffic. The traffic at that new side still seems heavier when I visit family and end up trapped in the confines of Somerset during the Christmas season.

I can unequivocally say there's nothing "low-brow" about Nordstrom and have the credit card statements my wife has rung up to prove it

BTW - As much as I hate to pour gas on the fire on said credit card, anyone hear any more drum beats about a real Nordy rolling in?

[MJLO]

The Chances of a Nordstrom coming to the GR market is low. The GR retail market has expanded to pull people from Lansing, Kzoo, and the north, the lakeshore has always been in play, but I don't believe there is really that kind of solid niche for Nordstrom to take that risk. It's a much more blue collar region.

[joeDowntown]

I have heard the exact opposite, that Nordstrom's wants to move into the GR market, but there is not a suitable location (now).

Joe

The Chances of a Nordstrom coming to the GR market is low. The GR retail market has expanded to pull people from Lansing, Kzoo, and the north, the lakeshore has always been in play, but I don't believe there is really that kind of solid niche for Nordstrom to take that risk. It's a much more blue collar region.

[suydam]

I can unequivocally say there's nothing "low-brow" about Nordstrom and have the credit card statements my wife has rung up to prove it

BTW - As much as I hate to pour gas on the fire on said credit card, anyone hear any more drum beats about a real Nordy rolling in?

I promise my original statement was tinged with sarcasm...sorry it didn't come across.

For the Somerset Collection, Nordstrom +Macy's anchoring the new side of the mall were a step down in snobbiness from Needless Markup and Saks Fifth Ave....

I can barely afford Penny's so trust me, I was fully tongue-in-cheeck.

[mgreven]

Maybe I'm just out of touch, but most of the time when me and my family go shopping it's because the weather is crummy and we go to the mall. If the weather is lousy, I'm sure we'll still drive to Woodland even though the 3 Mile lifestyle center would be blocks from our house. I just can't see dragging the kid (or kids as the case will be next week ) around an outdoor lifestyle center to do any Christmas shopping, much better to leave the kids on the "breakfast food" while the other spouse goes shopping.

Maybe this will help Centerpointe, but I know I won't spend as much time or money there just because we go there a lot for kids clothes at Old Navy and then let the toddler run around the mall and the playland and stop in other stores. Now we'd probably just be in and out.

Maybe I just don't get it.

[joeDowntown]

I agree. Lifestyle centers seem to cater to hit-and-run shopping (which is convenient) but I think there will always be a space for the enclosed mall in the midwest. They might have to reinvent themselves but I think Woodland will be enclosed and around for a while yet.

Nothing too surprising about Centerpointe's move. They could keep their 4 or 5 big tenants, move them into new buildings, add new space and not have to try and contend with renting the small units. Not a bad idea really. Centerpointe, while nicer than Eastbrook, still never came close to hitting the mark IMHO.

Joe

Maybe I'm just out of touch, but most of the time when me and my family go shopping it's because the weather is crummy and we go to the mall. If the weather is lousy, I'm sure we'll still drive to Woodland even though the 3 Mile lifestyle center would be blocks from our house. I just can't see dragging the kid (or kids as the case will be next week ) around an outdoor lifestyle center to do any Christmas shopping, much better to leave the kids on the "breakfast food" while the other spouse goes shopping.

Maybe this will help Centerpointe, but I know I won't spend as much time or money there just because we go there a lot for kids clothes at Old Navy and then let the toddler run around the mall and the playland and stop in other stores. Now we'd probably just be in and out.

Maybe I just don't get it.

[BigPlayJ]

Maybe I'm wrong, but didn't many people predict the demise of Woodland when the Grandville mall opened? I think they reacted nicely to that turn of events by remodeling and bringing in better tenants, including the area's first Apple Store. I'd much rather shop at Woodland than Rivertown, and I would think the same will hold true when comparing Woodland to a lifestyle center in the middle of January or February.

[GRDadof3]

I agree. Lifestyle centers seem to cater to hit-and-run shopping (which is convenient) but I think there will always be a space for the enclosed mall in the midwest. They might have to reinvent themselves but I think Woodland will be enclosed and around for a while yet.

Nothing too surprising about Centerpointe's move. They could keep their 4 or 5 big tenants, move them into new buildings, add new space and not have to try and contend with renting the small units. Not a bad idea really. Centerpointe, while nicer than Eastbrook, still never came close to hitting the mark IMHO.

Joe

Article says Centerpointe is 90% occupied right now, but they're probably not waiting around for certain death. I wonder what Woodland's vacancy rate is? It seems like there are a lot of "white-walled" areas lately.

From the press:

To be the devil's advocate about lifestyle centers, what's the difference between a big wind-swept Meijer parking lot and a big wind-swept lifestyle center parking lot? I know for our family, when we go to the mall (Woodland), we go to 1 or 2 stores tops. We don't spend hours there eating lunch, strolling around the mall, hanging out. It's quick in quick out, and quite a pain because usually the stores we go to are at separate ends of the mall.

Lifestyle centers appear to be more concentrated, and if you're lucky, you can park right near the store you want. When the weather is warmer, you might make an outing out of it. All I know is lifestyle centers are THE big thing, and there are virtually no indoor malls being built anymore. Even Mall of America's expansion plans I believe are going to be mainly outdoors (in Minneapolis winters?).

If we want to go "hang out", we go downtown. However, if people think that the "outdoor atmosphere" is a hamper, what does that mean for urban retail areas?

[Grandrapidsne]

It will be nice if they can bring in some retailers we don't have here in Grand Rapids as of yet? Although the lifestyle center will be horrible during bad weather i think it will bring more people than before i think most people like myslef while shoping at centerpointe pull right up to the store that you will be shoping at so this is kinda more convient in my opinion.

[joeDowntown]

Weird. It doesn't seem like they are gaining much of anything from the rebuild other losing one side of the mall. It seems crazy to me that they would knock down and rebuild Nordtrom Rack just to make it a little smaller (but in the exact same location). That was new construction a couple of years ago. Go figure.

Joe

[GRDadof3]

Weird. It doesn't seem like they are gaining much of anything from the rebuild other losing one side of the mall. It seems crazy to me that they would knock down and rebuild Nordtrom Rack just to make it a little smaller (but in the exact same location). That was new construction a couple of years ago. Go figure.

Joe

FWIW, that graphic was done by the Press, not by Centerpointe. Take it with a grain of salt.

[NorthEnder]

Lifestyle centers appear to be more concentrated, and if you're lucky, you can park right near the store you want. When the weather is warmer, you might make an outing out of it. All I know is lifestyle centers are THE big thing, and there are virtually no indoor malls being built anymore. Even Mall of America's expansion plans I believe are going to be mainly outdoors (in Minneapolis winters?).

When I, and most people I know go to a mall, it isn't to go to just one store, it's to go to multiple stores.

Parking is always an issue, and the concentration isn't as good as you'd think, they're still giant and spread out.

[tamias6]

Too me Life Style Centers can be summed up as being glorified Shopping Malls, sans roof.

[GRDadof3]

When I, and most people I know go to a mall, it isn't to go to just one store, it's to go to multiple stores.

Parking is always an issue, and the concentration isn't as good as you'd think, they're still giant and spread out.

I was just speaking generally, but Americans are spending vastly less time in shopping malls than even 5 years ago, especially with internet shopping. I thought that we were going to the mall to go to multiple stores, but when I thought about it, my wife basically hits 2 stores for the kids (Penney's and Children's Place), and two stores for her, in Woodland, and generally not in the same trip. The rest of the mall could fall off the face of the earth and we would not miss it. We're much more likely to buy clothes for the kids at Target or Meijer now than trek to the mall.

Lifestyle centers may be a desperate attempt by retail developers to try and save the mall industry from what might be trending to be certain death in 20 years.

Retail Trends: death of shopping malls?

[Explorer55]

What a bunch of fair weather shoppers! You live in Michigan. A little cold weather shouldn't keep you from shopping in an outdoor area. How will downtown retail succeed if you have that that attitude????

I live in a four season area (granted, we have sunnier winters than GR, and more mild winter weather overall, but it still can get very cold and we do have snow) and the outdoor shopping areas, whether the traditional city center downtown, the lifestyle centers, or the traditional and newly developed neighborhood retail centers, including one major new urbanist downtown, growing on the site of a former mall, seem to do just fine in the winter. Now if there's a major snow storm or days of nasty weather, I'm sure the retail business drops, but that's true of the indoor malls, as well. We had experience with that when this area got slammed by a major snowstorm just before Christmas last year. The draw to the outdoor retail areas perhaps is a combination of novelty (which could wear off with time), the mix of uses, the higher level of energy in those retail areas with the best mix of uses, and perhaps a little nostalgia on the part of the older folks. Open space, nice landscaping and seating areas, attractive architecture, maybe some periodic outdoor entertainment can all add to the experience that draws folks in, too.

I hope Centerpointe includes some housing, too, as well as entertainment/activities ( a Lucky Strike for bowling, anyone?). And definitely opportunities for outdoor dining in good weather.