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SouthEnd Midrise Projects


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Check out this CL article about the future of these shops:

http://clclt.com/charlotte/can-independent-business-owners-hold-on-as-the-boom-continues-in-south-end/Content?oid=3631935

This particular quote brought my blood to a rolling boil as it speaks to the seemingly tone-deaf attitude of some developers:

"It will be sad that they have to relocate, but the good news is there are places for them to relocate. Even if there weren't, it's not going to have a major impact on the greater neighborhood," Pressley says. "(South End) has become an extension of Uptown. The good news is there are still neighborhoods like Plaza Midwood and Noda that have an organic feel. That won't change, it just wont be South End. At one time for South End that was the basis, but as urban living becomes hipper and cooler and more people move in, they have needs and demands that are not unlike the suburbs."

I guess in Mr. Pressley's world, the mark of a truly evolved neighborhood is one, in which, all vestiges of character have met their fate at the hands of a demolition crew and all the little guys have been replaced. 

Of course, Southend residents seem to like having those small shops around according to a recent survey conducted by CCCP...

http://www.charlotteagenda.com/15283/south-end-doesnt-want-chain-retail-and-is-worried-about-too-many-apartments/

 

 

 

 

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From what I've gathered during various neighborhood conversations, it was inevitable. Supposedly Gains Brown has no choice but to either sell, or get pushed-out without much, if any, compensation. I can't confirm but, I heard that's what happened with the Trolly Museum; I was told he once owned that building as well but, he got pushed out by whatever 'immanent domain' laws/policies/regs exercised to do so.

Regardless, $$$/Development has a louder voice than the current 'renters' who make up the majority of the residents in the South End special tax zone. It's not like Dilworth, or even Wilmore, where single-family property owners make up the consensus whose property tax dollars give them influence/voice towards guiding development in their neighborhoods.

Like it or not, Southend is steadily becoming more of an extension/assimilation of uptown vs. an independent, community-guided, neighborhood. Just the change I've seen  living here for the past 5 years is incredible, completely different feel/vibe than when I first moved to SE. 

 

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Unfortunately, we're still paying the price for the wholesale urban renewal in Charlotte. The buildings that would've made perfect frameworks for redevelopment now are already gone; they were pushed down. Things like Common Market have acquired neighborhood importance, but as urban fabric they're extremely lacking and their redevelopment is all but inevitable, simply because they're only one floor. Durham and other cities didn't do as much wanton destruction, so they still have many buildings of three, four, or more stories that make a much better investment and are more likely to remain. Charlotte, also, was more of a transit point than a manufacturing center; if you look at Durham and Winston-Salem, their downtown fabric includes a lot of massive tobacco factories, whereas Charlotte had warehouses. I wish we had more of the other type, but without a time machine we're not going to get them back.

The saddest thing, to me, is that we aren't forcing developers to build potential gathering places; we should be zoning new plazas and street cafe spaces and so on, but we aren't. I think in place of misplaced attempts to preserve old warehouses, we need agitation for better zoning. "Yes, South End/NoDa/PM are going to become denser, but we also need them to remain vital and interesting -- let's make that happen" instead of "No, keep the one-story brick block!"

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FTR: I disagree that one story brick can't create an urban fabric.  

 

FTR: I disagree that one story brick can't create an urban fabric.  

I think he means economically it's hard to justify for developers as the land becomes more valuable

Edited by AirNostrumMAD
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Where is the CM rumored to go? Gold District?

I drove past Unknown on Saturday afternoon, and it was packed.  We've already seen the push westward from the Blue Line, and things seem to be reaching a critical mass for more business in that area.  I cut through there quite a bit to get to Publix or Lowes, and it's actually quite a nice little area that most people have no clue about.

Edited by birky
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FTR: I disagree that one story brick can't create an urban fabric.  

If you're talking about something that is already renovated, has been continually maintained, and isn't in an area that's facing development pressure, sure. However, if you think about the city's costs, it's always better to develop at least a second floor -- simply because utilities cost per linear foot, and if you add another floor you're doubling the square footage so that the floor area to utility length doubles. Furthermore, if you think about a developer's costs, buying more land in a dense area is going to cost more than adding a second, third, fourth, nth floor (until you reach the limit of stick-built). For a developer, it makes little sense to buy a plot of land and renovate a one-story warehouse when you could raze it and build something with ten times the profit potential.

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I guess it's how you define a urban fabric that "is lacking"... A single story strip may not meet its taxing potential yes.  I've never thought of urban fabric and taxing potential as connected.  When I think of urban fabric I think of the quality of space that a cluster of buildings create.   A good cluster of older, single story buildings, can (and quite often do) create a fabric and a quality of space that is superior to a newer two three or seven story building.

 

...either way.  I really like the points you are making about how we need to build "places".  I am not sure that Zoning alone can solve that.  I think the city needs to step to the plate and  make some investments.  They should be building civic spaces: plazas, focal points, monuments, fountains, artwork, areas for public congregation.

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I'd venture to say Camden Gallery and 1616 Center are the only large scale projects doing a respectable job engaging the street. I'm happy with the amount of public space fronting camden in front of Camden Gallery.

11960254_1643972899151829_4163458808394104953_n.jpg

11951112_1643973055818480_4443728992324911536_n.jpg

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I guess it's how you define a urban fabric that "is lacking"... A single story strip may not meet its taxing potential yes.  I've never thought of urban fabric and taxing potential as connected.  When I think of urban fabric I think of the quality of space that a cluster of buildings create.   A good cluster of older, single story buildings, can (and quite often do) create a fabric and a quality of space that is superior to a newer two three or seven story building.

...either way.  I really like the points you are making about how we need to build "places".  I am not sure that Zoning alone can solve that.  I think the city needs to step to the plate and  make some investments.  They should be building civic spaces: plazas, focal points, monuments, fountains, artwork, areas for public congregation.

I think taxing potential is directly connected to urban fabric, because land is finite, tax is how we fund infrastructure, and so letting low-efficiency uses stay in areas that can support more is less than optimal, holistically. Of course, a property owner should be free to hold on to it--but property tax assessments will go up due to the surrounding area, and then it becomes a matter of time before the owner either builds a denser building or sells to someone who will.

Ultimately, too, there is no reason that a new development should take away from the neighborhood. Good developers should be able to build new buildings with engaging street fronts, including lower-rent spaces for local businesses subsidized by the larger spaces and by apartments or offices above. Good developers. Failing that, good zoning and planning could encourage real street engagement. Good planning. And, yes, the city should also make targeted investments to create and preserve public spaces. All of this is unlikely, but it would make Charlotte a stronger city.

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http://plancharlotte.org/story/development-threatens-charlottes-south-end-common-market-food-trucks

 

article with Gaines. Not much in here in terms of the actual plans. To summarize: he's happy with DFAs plans, retail on Camden and SOUNDS like they will have a big public parking garage of some sorts. South end needs more accessible parking . This is good. If it's a cool looking garage that is.  

Edited by Jayvee
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http://plancharlotte.org/story/development-threatens-charlottes-south-end-common-market-food-trucks

 

article with Gaines. Not much in here in terms of the actual plans. To summarize: he's happy with DFAs plans, retail on Camden and SOUNDS like they will have a big public parking garage of some sorts. South end needs more accessible parking . This is good. If it's a cool looking garage that is.  

I'm pretty salty on all aspects of this of course, but now that I know the architect, I don't see a single project in their portfolio (http://www.dudapaine.com/what-we-do.html) that makes me think they are right for a project in this spot. 

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Ahhh I hadn't seen who the architect was. Conversely, I'm actually somewhat comforted by that choice. Duda Paine does outdoor spaces very nicely (courtyards, breezeways, etc), and I find most of their work to be pretty sensitive to the context. 

I Echo this sentiment. Their architecture has been getting a little more daring recently, but most importantly their focus on creating AWESOME outdoor and pedestrian scale places will allow this space to shine.

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^ True but pretty much everything in that portfolio is very modern and (to me) cold. It all looks well designed, but does't have that "Historic South End" feel. Hopefully they are pushed to borrow strongly from the asthetics of the surrounding structures instead of create a new or bold statement. I really think that designing something that will quickly give the feeling that it's been there for a while will lessen the sting of this whole situation.

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^ True but pretty much everything in that portfolio is very modern and (to me) cold. It all looks well designed, but does't have that "Historic South End" feel. Hopefully they are pushed to borrow strongly from the asthetics of the surrounding structures instead of create a new or bold statement. I really think that designing something that will quickly give the feeling that it's been there for a while will lessen the sting of this whole situation.

As long as they don't select the new Ferguson building when drawing from supporting structures :)

Edited by SouthEndCLT811
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What are the chances Common Market moves back into one of the retail spaces in this new building?  Pretty much zero percent?

Zip, Nada, nix, nil, diddily squat, bugger all, fudge all, Common Market has a pretty sweet rent price, that won't work in a $32 per sq foot retail space.

Edited by Guest
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