Venue Tower at the BOB - 20 Monroe Live - House of Blues/Live Nation Venue

[metrogrkid]

Good lord, the city better not f$%& this up. I think Grand Rapids is a little too mature to be worrying about "simultaneous events" happening close to each other. And are we ever going to get away from our dependency on a large amount of parking spaces? The city should be doing everything it can to get this thing off the ground, not holding it back.

With that line of thinking, they would be better served to adapt the suburban mall way of thinking - "Let's build a huge sea of parking, in anticipation of the crowds that we will get for the day after Thanksgiving. To heck with it being empty the other 364 days of the year." It's a surprise that this city has gotten as big as it is with the "podunk" reasoning that goes on with our elected officials. (end rant)

Yes, I wasn't quite sure what they were getting at. What would be a solution in their minds, if there really is a problem? Make the developer build in 500 parking spaces on 10 floors? Some people like to object just to hear themselves speak, I guess.

Thinking and replies from UP-GR members like the ones above are what give me ENORMOUS hope for Metro Grand Rapids and its future. You all keep proving that WE GET IT!!

The reactions and comments by LaGrand and Jendrasiak ( ) were revoltingly OLD GRAND RAPIDS and were on par with that super-clueless "what's her face?" woman over on the Planning Commission (you know, glasses, brunette, short bob-type cut, said that original 24-story version of Icon-On-Bond was "too dense", blah, blah, blah). Our esteemed two City Commissioners really need to see what's in their own city's pipeline that will reduce parking's impact on this project (can we say THE B.O.B.'s STATION on the STREETRAIL CORRIDOR?) before they do the knee-jerk "fire fire, parking parking" bit. Damn, parking priority is going the way of the dinosaur here just as it has in Portland and other cities trying to grow sustainably. <would someone PLEASE create a "pull-hair-out" emoticon for use at times like this?>

Edited March 18, 2008 by metrogrkid

[GRDadof3]

Well I knew this would get the kinds of responses we're getting. And people continue to say that Grand Rapids isn't ready for transit yet. It's the same people who spout such anti-transit tripe in the Press or on Mlive, and then gripe and complain because they can't find parking to go to a Griffins game. I guess in their minds the perfect spot for arenas and theaters is out in a pasture in Wayland.

The Commission unanimously approved the Option Extension BTW (which is what Gilmore needed before he can move forward with more definitive plans). As I said, maybe they were just objecting just to be objectionable.

[Josh]

Our esteemed two City Commissioners really need to see what's in their own city's pipeline that will reduce parking's impact on this project (can we say THE B.O.B.'s STATION on the STREETRAIL CORRIDOR?) before they do the knee-jerk "fire fire, parking parking" bit. Damn, parking priority is going the way of the dinosaur here just as it has in Portland and other cities trying to grow sustainably.

The city commissioners should be doing everything they can to get the project off the ground! When will they start to see the big picture for downtown and realize that a parking spot for every individual is not feasible or sustainable? As these types of projects are being proposed, the city's got to realize that mass transit will become the primary way for residents downtown as well as bringing people in and out for concerts / events.

When will they get it???

[Rizzo]

The city commissioners should be doing everything they can to get the project off the ground! When will they start to see the big picture for downtown and realize that a parking spot for every individual is not feasible or sustainable? As these types of projects are being proposed, the city's got to realize that mass transit will become the primary way for residents downtown as well as bringing people in and out for concerts / events.

When will they get it???

They already got it. Even the parking people know that.... They already had upteen task forces saying diversify the way the city transports people to downtown -- hint hint.

Edited March 18, 2008 by Rizzo

[Josh]

They already got it. Even the parking people know that.... They already had upteen task forces saying diversify the way the city transports people to downtown -- hint hint.

Alright, I'll take your word, but I'm frustrated when big projects are hinged on way to much parking, IMO.

So, looking at this situation, do we push harder for transit to promote transit-oriented development and try to get public support, or do we wait for projects to be proposed which will expose the need for transit and wait for people to realize it themselves?

[OneSweetWorld]

Alright, I'll take your word, but I'm frustrated when big projects are hinged on way to much parking, IMO.

So, looking at this situation, do we push harder for transit to promote transit-oriented development and try to get public support, or do we wait for projects to be proposed which will expose the need for transit and wait for people to realize it themselves?

PUSH for it, definately. Nothing gets done when people are "waiting" for it it happen.

[MAU]

With that line of thinking, they would be better served to adapt the suburban mall way of thinking - "Let's build a huge sea of parking, in anticipation of the crowds that we will get for the day after Thanksgiving. To heck with it being empty the other 364 days of the year." It's a surprise that this city has gotten as big as it is with the "podunk" reasoning that goes on with our elected officials. (end rant)

Because it wouldn't really be a commission meeting without Jendrasiak being anti something everything. Somebody has to pick up where Tormala left off.

[Rizzo]

Alright, I'll take your word, but I'm frustrated when big projects are hinged on way to much parking, IMO.

So, looking at this situation, do we push harder for transit to promote transit-oriented development and try to get public support, or do we wait for projects to be proposed which will expose the need for transit and wait for people to realize it themselves?

You're not alone in the frustration. There will be some complacency and resting on laurels once The Rapid wins the Fed's contest. It's expected that the Feds will fund The Rapid's Division Ave. enhanced bus project. This will be the only project for a long time and that's if its successful as Division Ave. leaders are expecting.

The folks shelling out $2.7 million for a 0.9 acre lot to park cars still aren't taking the connection further. If there isn't a parking problem downtown, I don't know what is.

Then again, it goes to the whole idea of what will really carry downtown's momentum. The ability to store more cars or the ability to move people in and out of the core? What more could possibly push this issue further?

• Crumbling roads are costing metro motorists $1,085 annually?
  
• metro having the highest share of substandard roads in the state among the three largest urban centers
  
• Rush-hour commutes costing metro motorists $315 annually in lost time and gasoline
  
• Just under $1,000,000 local dollars is spent fueling metro commutes daily (2005 prices)
  
• Area commuters spend over 190,000 hours commuting to work daily
  
• or the millions of dollars of redevelopment opportunity, jobs and community development?
  

Edited March 19, 2008 by Rizzo

[GRDadof3]

Alright, I'll take your word, but I'm frustrated when big projects are hinged on way to much parking, IMO.

So, looking at this situation, do we push harder for transit to promote transit-oriented development and try to get public support, or do we wait for projects to be proposed which will expose the need for transit and wait for people to realize it themselves?

Sure wait. Just wait until they finally unveil a proposal for the Market & Fulton site, and it includes a MASSIVE obnoxious 10 story 3000 car parking garage fronting the river, or the same with Rowe Hotel/post office site. And it will be so ugly it will make your stomach churn.

[Raildudes dad]

Sure wait. Just wait until they finally unveil a proposal for the Market & Fulton site, and it includes a MASSIVE obnoxious 10 story 3000 car parking garage fronting the river, or the same with Rowe Hotel/post office site. And it will be so ugly it will make your stomach churn.

It just floors me that almost every big project downtown stuffs a parking ramp underneath. I'm surprised two ways - the security issue of allowing vehicles under an inhabited building and second the $$$ spent on the parking structure and FUTURE MAINTENANCE which could easily be put into the mass transit pot. If the money from the land and ramp costs from every parking ramp built in the last 5 years plus the operating cost and maintenance money from the future was collected, we probably wouldn't need a sales tax etc to fund mass transit.

[GRDadof3]

No kidding.

BTW: I had it wrong. The city expanded the purchase option to include the entire parking lot, and he has to close by the end of 2008 to get a purchase price of $1.8 Million. After that, it goes to $2 Million, with the option expiring in March 09. That's quite an incentive to close this year.

http://blog.mlive.com/grpress/2008/03/gran...ion_extend.html

[MAU]

I wonder what will happen to bike night/Blues on the Mall?

[snoogit]

No kidding.

BTW: I had it wrong. The city expanded the purchase option to include the entire parking lot, and he has to close by the end of 2008 to get a purchase price of $1.8 Million. After that, it goes to $2 Million, with the option expiring in March 09. That's quite an incentive to close this year.

http://blog.mlive.com/grpress/2008/03/gran...ion_extend.html

I like this quote from the article at the end:

"A perfect storm of parking demand would be nice on an occasional basis," he quipped.

[Allison Slater]

I wonder what will happen to bike night/Blues on the Mall?

Market/Fulton. ~shrug~

[metrogrkid]

I wonder what will happen to bike night/Blues on the Mall?

The Biker Component could take a page from Bistro Bella Vita's "Street Party" and close off the "T" intersection of Grandville Street and Weston and use that as the new site. You'd be surprised about how hip Bistro is. HA! Bikers @ Bistro! I love it!!

[GRDadof3]

Apparenty Gilmore held a design competition or "charrette" for this project. Might see some images soon.

[Ted]

Apparenty Gilmore held a design competition or "charrette" for this project. Might see some images soon.

You mean he asked some architects for some free design work with the suggestion that he would hire them if they happened to impress him?

Oh the semantics.

[droonus2000]

ahhh! i can't wait to see some pictures. this would be awesome for the city.

[NorthCoast]

I thought they looked pretty neat

[GRDadof3]

You mean he asked some architects for some free design work with the suggestion that he would hire them if they happened to impress him?

Oh the semantics.

Better than hiring some "non-local".

[GVSUChris]

Seeing as I know very little about these kinds of things...

When is the soonest one could expect to see anything at all in terms of designs? (Give me an inflated estimate so I don't get my hopes up and can then be pleasently suprised! )

[Ted]

Better than hiring some "non-local".

Maybe, maybe not.

Regardless, you're trying to create a false distinction: the choice is never 'local architect work for free or I'll hire an out of town architect' or 'should I hire an out of town architect or get a local one to look for free'. The issue here is that a client that is proposing a multi, multi-million dollar development is not willing to pay a few thousand dollars for a design. Call it what you will but that almost always results in bad architecture.

We will see.

[GRDadof3]

Maybe, maybe not.

Regardless, you're trying to create a false distinction: the choice is never 'local architect work for free or I'll hire an out of town architect' or 'should I hire an out of town architect or get a local one to look for free'. The issue here is that a client that is proposing a multi, multi-million dollar development is not willing to pay a few thousand dollars for a design. Call it what you will but that almost always results in bad architecture.

We will see.

It's not necessarily a false distinction. He could have hired some "international" starchitecture firm, assuming he'd get the best design possible, which many developers have done in Grand Rapids. Instead, he has decided to have various local firms "compete on a concept" of what the project would look like. Wouldn't that bring out some of the best ideas? Sometimes, in order to get work, you have to audition for the work and not get paid (and that goes for virtually any creative field), IMPE.

GVSUChris, who knows. Maybe 12 - 18 months (then you'll be surprised if they come out earlier). I think this project is still years away from ground-breaking.

[PR-15]

It's not necessarily a false distinction. He could have hired some "international" starchitecture firm, assuming he'd get the best design possible, which many developers have done in Grand Rapids. Instead, he has decided to have various local firms "compete on a concept" of what the project would look like. Wouldn't that bring out some of the best ideas? Sometimes, in order to get work, you have to audition for the work and not get paid (and that goes for virtually any creative field), IMPE.

GVSUChris, who knows. Maybe 12 - 18 months (then you'll be surprised if they come out earlier). I think this project is still years away from ground-breaking.

Sorry to disagree, GRDAD. It's a bad system. When you get ready for a happy meal you don't eat a hamburger at Wendy's, McDonalds and Rally's and then just pay for the one that tasted the best. There are real costs involved for each firm to develop their concepts on your behalf...which charrette's ignore or disregard.

IMO, it's a disrespectful approach to design talent...I get approached all the time this way for photography...and I run for the hills. Because typically you can never make money on these "spec" clients. They tend to try to undercut your fees all the way down the line because they never put any value on your talent and time in the first place.

That being said, I've personally always had a good experience with Mr. Gilmore and he's been very fair with me.

[d8alterego]

I'd like to think that Gillmore will surprise us by rapidly developing this site. Since some of our local developers have surprised us before (like when Gallery on Fulton was resurected from near death), I'd also like to think this development will come online at the same time the streetcar gets approved/implemented. Who knows, it may be the streetcar that is pushing this project along faster than Gillmore originally intended. Here's to hoping.

GVSUChris, who knows. Maybe 12 - 18 months (then you'll be surprised if they come out earlier). I think this project is still years away from ground-breaking.