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Drive for 'Center City' retail


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I'm a huge proponent of Belk opening a major store in City Center but I have a friend who works for them who says this isn't even in long term plans at this point.

I also agree that Midtown area would be considered part of City Center by many retailers. On a related question: Has anyone heard anything about the Home Depot store space under target?

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The Shopping Center Group has a big sign trying to get a tenant to fill this spot, specifically labeling the Former Home Depot [Design Center]...

I mean as we've speculated, I can't think of much that can fully fill this space, retailer wise, a side from something like Kohl's or a Warehouse Club (Costco, Sam's, BJ's)

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  • 4 weeks later...

It's annoying to keep waiting and hoping. As the comments suggested it's a confluence of factors: Southpark is magnetic,not enough residents, the same spiel.

If retail was solely defined by too many high end mediocre "Asian Fusion" we would be unparalleled.

And we are getting another one @ the WF campus.

Enough already!

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It's annoying to keep waiting and hoping. As the comments suggested it's a confluence of factors: Southpark is magnetic,not enough residents, the same spiel.

If retail was solely defined by too many high end mediocre "Asian Fusion" we would be unparalleled.

And we are getting another one @ the WF campus.

Enough already!

I feel like the constant harping on a lack of retail may be a small factor in deterring potential newcomers to the scene. In the 3 years since I moved to Charlotte (uptown) I've seen things get about 100% better than it was, and it seems cause for significant optimism.

and, for what its worth, Kalu for one is STELLAR asian fusion

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I feel like the constant harping on a lack of retail may be a small factor in deterring potential newcomers to the scene. In the 3 years since I moved to Charlotte (uptown) I've seen things get about 100% better than it was, and it seems cause for significant optimism.

Fully disagree with the former but fully agree with the latter. I also moved to Charlotte a little over three years ago and have been positively amazed at the changes, but I would not categorize it as either constant harping and suggest it plays a factor (no matter how small) in deterring newcomers. Though I would add that if newcomers are kept away - it would be by the actual lack of retail and not talking about it.

In a lot of ways I think the changes in the last three years make the want for retail in city center so acute because I know it is possible. Keep in mind I realize that it's the economy that is a prime culprit right now in attracting retail and there is potential in the future.

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Nothing firm here (and nothing about uptown) but it is good to know that H&M have new US markets in sight.

It really would be a huge lost opportunity for them to go to Southpark rather than uptown. If there was ever a good case to be made for incentives a bigtime, unique, uptown retailer would be it.

http://obswhatsinstore.blogspot.com/2011/01/hope-for-h-in-charlotte.html

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If there was ever a good case to be made for incentives a bigtime, unique, uptown retailer would be it.

True. Glad that there is thus no good case to be made for incentives for retailers; they distort the market, subsidize people who don't need it (wealthy chain store owners) and take away from better uses of tax dollars (such as schools).

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It really would be a huge lost opportunity for them to go to Southpark rather than uptown.

What if H&M went to a site on Elizabeth Avenue with parking in back? I really don't think Southpark is as much of a competition with Uptown anymore, compared to Midtown.

Unfortunately, Uptown doesn't seem to have enough independent purchasing power to support walk-only retail, especially on evenings and weekends. With lower land costs supporting conventional retail floor plans and parking, Midtown seems to be the happy medium. Though just outside Uptown, Midtown is where "Center City" (read Uptown, plus first-ring neighborhoods) does have enough collective (and largely untapped) purchasing power within a short drive. And hybrid designs like Metropolitan and Restaurant Row mix walkable storefront with shared or structured parking on cheaper Midtown land, serving both customers arriving by foot and vehicle. Plus, Uptown residents may be less likely to get in their car, as many do now for even Metropolitan, once streetcar links Elizabeth Avenue.

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A comment on the Observer for a city center retail story (linked a few messages ago) mentioned that Bloomingdales was originally slated to open a store in the Duke Tower before the recession changed its plans.

Anyone heard of this?

No. If a letter of intent had been signed or even negotiations had been underway for a store there, it would have been in the news. It wasn't. I remember that the Charlotte Business Journal reported that Neiman Marcus executives went to lunch with some retail real estate people in Charlotte before announcing the SouthPark store.

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A comment on the Observer for a city center retail story (linked a few messages ago) mentioned that Bloomingdales was originally slated to open a store in the Duke Tower before the recession changed its plans.

Anyone heard of this?

I knew about this. If you saw some of the Wachovia/Duke tower renderings, Bloomingdale's was in some of the street level images.

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I knew about this. If you saw some of the Wachovia/Duke tower renderings, Bloomingdale's was in some of the street level images.

I also knew about this from a friend who works in the development biz that he had heard there was more than mild flirtation between the developer and Bloomingdales at one point.

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  • 2 weeks later...

What if the H&M opened under the Midtown Target?

Or does Target have some sort of agreement that says another clothing retailer cannot move in the building?

What if H&M went to a site on Elizabeth Avenue with parking in back? I really don't think Southpark is as much of a competition with Uptown anymore, compared to Midtown.

Unfortunately, Uptown doesn't seem to have enough independent purchasing power to support walk-only retail, especially on evenings and weekends. With lower land costs supporting conventional retail floor plans and parking, Midtown seems to be the happy medium. Though just outside Uptown, Midtown is where "Center City" (read Uptown, plus first-ring neighborhoods) does have enough collective (and largely untapped) purchasing power within a short drive. And hybrid designs like Metropolitan and Restaurant Row mix walkable storefront with shared or structured parking on cheaper Midtown land, serving both customers arriving by foot and vehicle. Plus, Uptown residents may be less likely to get in their car, as many do now for even Metropolitan, once streetcar links Elizabeth Avenue.

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The thing is a typical H&M is like 20,000 or 30,000 square feet, and the space below Target is 120,000 square feet so if H&M wanted to move in it would have to be subdivided and the problem with subdivsion is that half the stores would be masked by the parking deck and would have a complete lack of visibility. There aren't a lot of stores that can simply fill 120,000 square feet... I bet they're holding out for a Kohl's, I don't know if a warehouse club wants to move in to that space at this point and like I said there aren't a lot of other big box retailers that can fill it.

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As far as the drive for CC Retail goes, I'd say that space below Target is a low priority for getting filled. I think that Target has wildly exceeded the companies expectations for sales, and the traffic around the parking deck would back that up. (For those of you that don't frequent that store, it's currently undergoing a major renovation to include a full grocery with produce and whatnot.)

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I decided to contact Bloomingdales directly regarding the discussion of a city center location.. I received a response from the Director of National Media Relations who stated that she was unaware of any Charlotte plans at this time. She didn't comment on the previous plans though.

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  • 1 year later...

So after the convention, our city leaders from all the interviews I read really want more retail than ever.

Post DNC with Romare Bearden & BBT Ball Park and 2013 approaching, Levine going forward with The parking lots for his Disney World in Charlotte 100 years from now...

Do we have any new expectations or hopes of Retail in uptown? Any predictions?

Im wishing a mixed use tower by Romare with a lot of ground retail similar to metropolitan or Proposed Trump Charlotte.

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To me, there isn't much point to hope for Uptown to land a major national retailer when South Park is already established for that. And even if Uptown landed something, it's still just "a store" - the biggest reason to shop there would be as a change of perception of environment [is it cooler to buy something from Urban Outfitters in a city, rather than a mall? You're still buying the same thing]. I hope people realize that the city is an amalgamation of different ideas, styles, sizes, buildings and feelings - the complete opposite of South Park - and as such, the city is best fit for small, independent, unique, adaptive retail opportunities. We're seeing that in restaurants right now... now graduate the same idea to unique stores...

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Everyone wants more retail Uptown. During the convention, the Google site was a hit. How about allowing more pop-up retail in Uptown parking lots, including this site and others? 300 S. Tryon may not see a hotel or office building anytime soon. Plus, combined with the adjacent Latta Arcade / Brevard Court, you could reach enough critical mass to generate foot traffic on evenings and weekends.

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I don't think you're going to attract any of the major national retailers (soft goods) without having some sort of critical mass. I thought the Beazer site on W Morehead would have been perfect for this. You had enough land to have large anchors (ie: Belk, Macy's, etc.) as well as to build sufficient parking which is always the big issue for the retailers. I know we all want true urban retail, but if you look at other cities that are 5-10 years ahead of us, most of them do not have successful urban retail (yet). I think we're lucky to have something like the epicentre. Looking at other high-profile projects like this around the country, it seems that the original developer either has tremendous success and the next guy overpays and takes a loss, or the developer gets crushed and the next guy has success. Either way, it's very volatile and high risk, which adds another hurdle and usually takes a ballzy guy like Ghazi to make it happen.

With that said, I've seen anthropologie & urban outfitters (same parent) go into neighborhoods like South End and if there were better retail spaces with adequate parking, I could see this happening in Charlotte too. I think that's about all we can hope for in the near future.

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