Downtown Orlando Project Discussion

[JRS1]

Those dead end beams will stay a dead end for a few years until they extend them up and over 408 to accomodate 408 westbound traffic to i4 westbound, for now that crazy merge of traffic switching lanes will become the 408 westbound to i4 westbound traffic until phase 2 of the interchange begins.

true. that is also depicted by the OUC bldg. renderings as well.

[bic]

I-4/408 Interim Interchange

[JRS1]

I-4/408 Interim Interchange

man, you were reading my mind.

I was just about to post, that I am disapointed that they are not making a flyover for 408 EB to I-4 EB, rather, they are making that loop ramp in the picture. Maybe there isn't enough room to put another flyover, or, maybe it's too much $$$. great shot, though.

[bulldogger]

Wednesday night (4-25), the ramp from Anderson Street to eastbound I-4 will close. Traffic will be directed to use Division Avenue, turning right on Central Street and left on Garland Avenue to the eastbound I-4 on-ramp north of Amelia Street.

[bic]

[mrh3]

Wow!!! That looks like a real, city!

[JRS1]

Wow!!! That looks like a real, city!

I think ORL is approaching that point, which is different for every city, where, once you hit it development-wise, it takes the city from one level to the next-- city-wise.

[bic]

I-4/408 Interchange

Interim I-4/408 Interchange

Est. completion 2009

SR436/I-4 Interchange before/after

Construction dates TBD

Maitland Blvd./I-4 Interchange

Construction to begin in 2012

US 192 Interchange

Weather permitting, construction crews plan on opening the remaining new interchange ramps in the mid-May or early June. (A)The first planned opening is the ramp from westbound I-4 to eastbound US 192. The remaining three ramps (B), (C ) and (D) will be opening approximately two weeks later.

[JRS1]

the 436 improvements solve absolutely nothing. they widen the easement for I-4 underneath---yes. but the euro-looking criss cross exit ramps add nothing to improve traffic.

my take on new interchanges is simply: if they add a new flyover, then it's good. if they don't, then it's a waste of new construction and $$$. case in point: the new 414 interchange which takes away the flyovers, and the NEW 408 West to I-4 East loop ramp instead of a new flyover.

Edited May 3, 2007 by JRS1

[i_cre8]

This may be common knowledge to all of you, but I just learned of this yesterday -- that a few years back, Florida/the U.S. government passed a law that no new interstate construction can result in FL interstates having more than 6 general purpose lanes + 4 special-use lanes (such as the hated "Lexus Lanes" that were reviled a few years ago). In order words, there can only be 10 lanes, including the 4 special-use lanes, which must permanently be designated as HOV lanes or used in the manner of the "Lexus Lanes". Apparently, however, there was some legislation later passed that added a bit of flexibility to that mandate (i.e. it can be waived if deemed absolutely necessary), but otherwise, it seems to stand. That's why after all the new construction at JYP, there are still only 6 lanes.

Further, if any of you were wondering (I have) the reason why the new median is so wide around Conroy and JYP on I-4 is to allow for the future 4 special-use lanes there, as well as the proposed N-S light rail that's due to be in the median there (between the special-use lanes).

[lala67]

the 436 improvements solve absolutely nothing. they widen the easement for I-4 underneath---yes. but the euro-looking criss cross exit ramps add nothing to improve traffic.

my take on new interchanges is simply: if they add a new flyover, then it's good. if they don't, then it's a waste of new construction and $$. case in point: the new 414 interchange which takes away the flyovers, and the NEW 408 West to I-4 East loop ramp instead of a new flyover.

For 436 I think the criss cross eliminates the traffic signals needed at the midpoint on the bridge. It will definitely improve flow. I believe that people exiting from the interstate in both directions will do so simultaneously, and the folks trying to get on I-4 will then go at the same time. folks crossing the bridge will have one phase of lights to deal with. I saw this configuration somewhere that explained it a lot better. That intersection is horrible!

even without the flyover, the 408/I-4 interchange will have a lot better flow.

[gibby]

The 436 improvements will help the traffic situation big time.

[bic]

I swear, Orlando has more different types of interchanges for what should be simple perpendicular road/highway intersections than any other city I've seen.

[radiostatic102]

I swear, Orlando has more different types of interchanges for what should be simple perpendicular road/highway intersections than any other city I've seen.

That's because 40 years ago most of it was dirt roads. My father in law was raised where the intersection for 436 and Lake Howell is now. He said it was all trees and just a small road. He said it was open country back then. I still don't believe him.

And then there's lack of vision when the leaders saw the growth that was coming down the pike. Lack of leadership when we needed it most...

[JRS1]

For 436 I think the criss cross eliminates the traffic signals needed at the midpoint on the bridge. It will definitely improve flow. I believe that people exiting from the interstate in both directions will do so simultaneously, and the folks trying to get on I-4 will then go at the same time. folks crossing the bridge will have one phase of lights to deal with. I saw this configuration somewhere that explained it a lot better. That intersection is horrible!

even without the flyover, the 408/I-4 interchange will have a lot better flow.

yes... anything but that double trumpet interchange on 408 that we have now!

I'm just a flyover hound is all.

[johnatl]

That's because 40 years ago most of it was dirt roads. My father in law was raised where the intersection for 436 and Lake Howell is now. He said it was all trees and just a small road. He said it was open country back then. I still don't believe him.

And then there's lack of vision when the leaders saw the growth that was coming down the pike. Lack of leadership when we needed it most...

radiostatic102 - You can believe your father in law. We moved to Casselberry in 1971, and there were thick woods almost all the way down to Colonial on 436 back then. It was very lush and beautiful.

I still remember how shocked we all were when they started clearing the land for Altamonte Mall. One day it was thick, lush tall pine woods - the next it looked like a lunar landscape. Nothing but sand scraped completely bare. Back then, 436 was 2 lanes from 17-92 all the way over to Apopka, and thick woods started again right past I-4. Seeing it all today is very disconcerting, to say the least!

[radiostatic102]

radiostatic102 - You can believe your father in law. We moved to Casselberry in 1971, and there were thick woods almost all the way down to Colonial on 436 back then. It was very lush and beautiful.

I still remember how shocked we all were when they started clearing the land for Altamonte Mall. One day it was thick, lush tall pine woods - the next it looked like a lunar landscape. Nothing but sand scraped completely bare. Back then, 436 was 2 lanes from 17-92 all the way over to Apopka, and thick woods started again right past I-4. Seeing it all today is very disconcerting, to say the least!

Yeah I really do believe him, it's amazing though to hear him talk about it. It was all backwoods then. His father loved the country very much. He knew what was in store so he moved up near the Florida/Georgia state line, plenty of deer up there to hunt! And you're right, it is disconcerting because if we're not careful (and we're not, I'm sorry to say) we're going to lose that paradise, at least in Florida. His family settled the Goldenrod area back in the horse and buggy days. Imagine Florida w/o air conditioning.

[johnatl]

No, I can't even imagine it! My mom grew up in Daytona Beach back in the days before widespread a/c. She used to tell me they would go to the movies all day in the summer just to stay cool!

[neon9]

radiostatic102 - You can believe your father in law. We moved to Casselberry in 1971, and there were thick woods almost all the way down to Colonial on 436 back then. It was very lush and beautiful.

I still remember how shocked we all were when they started clearing the land for Altamonte Mall. One day it was thick, lush tall pine woods - the next it looked like a lunar landscape. Nothing but sand scraped completely bare. Back then, 436 was 2 lanes from 17-92 all the way over to Apopka, and thick woods started again right past I-4. Seeing it all today is very disconcerting, to say the least!

They used to have an aerial photo, 2 actually, in Altamonte Springs Public Works/Growth Mgmt.

One showed the area before the mall, the other after it and the park were constructed. It was amazing, half of the area must have been orange groves and the rest was just trees and a few lonely buildings. It's probably put away in someone's desk now because it could be thought that things were better then, esp. after driving down 436 now.

[spenser1058]

Great article in the NYTimes today about the changing views of Robert Moses - even a great city like New York is still engaging in many of the same arguments as little old o-town. It's fun to know that our debates over things like highways vs. rail and how and if to preserve neighborhoods happen everywhere. As Billy Joel pointed out, "We Didn't Start the Fire".

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/06/nyregion...amp;ref=thecity

[sunshine]

Foreign investors eyeing Fla. roads

But critics fear higher tolls would result.

Orlando Business Journal - May 4, 2007by Dan PingStaff Writer

http://orlando.bizjournals.com/orlando/sto...8510400^1456910

Why dont they do this with the bullet train and light rail?

[neon9]

Foreign investors eyeing Fla. roads

But critics fear higher tolls would result.

Orlando Business Journal - May 4, 2007by Dan PingStaff Writer

http://orlando.bizjournals.com/orlando/sto...8510400^1456910

Why dont they do this with the bullet train and light rail?

This is capitalism my friend. Big roads are becoming a money making venture like they should be in general, like our economic system implies they should be, so of course people want to invest in them. As the cost and privilege of driving become higher and more difficult to reach, you'll discover the working poor wondering just why they are subsidizing roads, but doing the same with mass transit is a commie plot. I think those 'Lexus' lanes were the best idea in a long time and we should all probably just pay for more toll roads or higher tag fees here in FL.

Take a % or 2 and put it towards Lynx locally, on the Turnpike use it on HSR.

Check out the Sentinel's blog boards when it comes to toll roads. Everyone wants a road...not TO their door, but a street away or so, they don't want to pay for them now and they will complain that paying for them with a loan is not fair 5 years into the deal. And a commie plot. Not that there are no abuses at the Expressway Authority, but I expect no less with the local competition.

Roads cost a whole 's' load of money and maintaining them is a massive investment also. Railroads don't cost any more, take less ROW and need little maintenance.

Oh, by the way, guess who owns all the roads...generally, you do, and no taxes are paid on ANY of it. Who would it go to, you?

But railroads are taxed and improvements are taxed as well, such as electrification....

Edited May 9, 2007 by neon9

[cwetteland]

the 436 improvements solve absolutely nothing. they widen the easement for I-4 underneath---yes. but the euro-looking criss cross exit ramps add nothing to improve traffic.

my take on new interchanges is simply: if they add a new flyover, then it's good. if they don't, then it's a waste of new construction and $$$. case in point: the new 414 interchange which takes away the flyovers, and the NEW 408 West to I-4 East loop ramp instead of a new flyover.

When I look at it I see a definite improvement in flow. While maybe not a dramatic as we all may hope it is there.

When E-Bound and W-Bound 436ers want to turn left on I-4 in the old Xchange only one can go at a timie (two could but one would back up on the bridge with the other crossing their lane). Same goes for N-bound and S-bound I-4ers making lefts onto 436.

In the new plan, since the lefts are "inside" each other, both go at once with no blockage.

It's something.

[JRS1]

When I look at it I see a definite improvement in flow. While maybe not a dramatic as we all may hope it is there.

When E-Bound and W-Bound 436ers want to turn left on I-4 in the old Xchange only one can go at a timie (two could but one would back up on the bridge with the other crossing their lane). Same goes for N-bound and S-bound I-4ers making lefts onto 436.

In the new plan, since the lefts are "inside" each other, both go at once with no blockage.

It's something.

you're right.

but the real improvement to 436/I-4 would be if Wymore and Central Parkway became interchanges, so that they could cut the flow of ramp traffic at 436. they still have to demo the 436 bridge, b/c it's too narrow.

they should also make an interchange of that overpass just north of 434 as well. 5 or so mile between interchanges at that point of I-4 is not right.

[bulldogger]

An interchange at Kennedy Blvd / Eatonville would do wonders to alleviate congestion at Lee Road as well.